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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread



  • 94hawkskin94hawkskin Posts: 116
    The problem is there is not a normal price difference between the basic four models. There is at least a $4K difference and in some cases up to a $8K difference. If you take price out of the equation then I would have bought an 06 Camry. But for $4K less I got a Sonata.

    The Camry and Sonata were very similar at the options I wanted in terms of build quality and performance. The only reason I even considered a Camry was because of the name. It is true Hyundai has to charge less to attract buyers, but I love that now I am an owner. After 7K of trouble free miles I am very satisfied with my decision. The most I would have paid over the Sonata for a Camry was maybe a $500 difference, but not anything close to $4K.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    You are right that at $4000 price is a major ( only? ) consideration. My contention is that this situation is not likely to last for very long. Hyundai has no inherent low-cost advantage over it's main competititors.

    At some time soon the top management is going to want a return from the product managers on all the investments made in putting the Sonata solidly in the US market. It'a a waiting game on the part of HonYota. Presently the American buyer benefits in being able to buy a worldclass vehicle at a fantasic price, but IMO it's temporary.

    While not being complacent I believe that Hon/Yota know what the cost is of building a midsize auto here. Sonata prices will have to come up to at least the Altima level, it's just good business. For the US buyer, buy now while the vehicle is priced as it is.

    Here is another view that I used to use in my past career. Buyers used to say that they could buy 'x' amount of steel at prices 10% below mine. I knew what that competitor(s) had available in quantity. I would 'encourage' the bargain shoppers to grab all the steel that they could at that price because it was good for them - but also for me. By doing this they were taking all the low-priced comptition out of the market. It's a parallel situation here. HonYota with superior reps and now superior products may be directing the low-priced buyers to Hyundai. This is good for these buyers but it's also good for HonYota because Hyundai is making upwards of $4000 - 7000 less profit on every vehicle than HonYota.

    It's a strategy of 'impovershing' Hyundai by making sure that they get little or no money for their vehicles. Hyundai as a huge, well run company knows what is going on as well. Is it realistic to think that they like being pushed into the back of the kitchen forced to eat the scraps HonYota leave? Not likely.
  • 94hawkskin94hawkskin Posts: 116
    I doubt that HonYota is dumping their lower priced car owners to Hyundai. Everybody knows it is far cheaper to keep an existing customer than it is to attract new ones. The fact is that Hyundai is a lot better buy than the more expensive Honda and Toyota models for most people that do the research.

    What Hyundai is doing now is undercutting the competition to gain market share and a good name in the buying community. I do agree with you that Hyundai will eventually raise prices as their reputation catches up to their product. Hopefully they will keep their $1,000 owner loyalty rebate as I will be a repeat customer. I have been overly enjoyed with my Sonata and me and my wife will probably add the 2008 Sante Fe to our lineup if that vehicle does as good as I hope in safety and the like.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,632
    Is it realistic to think that they like being pushed into the back of the kitchen forced to eat the scraps HonYota leave?

    It is this kind of attitude of contempt that turned me away from HoYota dealerships years ago.

    If they tested one w/similar equip then this new sedan comparison on Edmunds would have some validity.

    BUT, because these people here on Edmunds picked a car $7,000 or 30.4% MORE EXPENSIVE THAN FUSION as first place just goes to show that this was not a comparison test, this was a joke. They would have picked the toyota regardless, even if it had 3 wheels.

    Once you get to a stagerring 30% price increase, the class of cars is changed. Thats it. I bet many people shopping for the 3rd and 4th place cars cannot afford the 1rst and 2nd place cars, as tested.

    I had more respect for Edmunds. I don't care if the new Camry can fly, cook, and jump rope, at a 30% price premium, you are in a different class, and should be compared to higher priced cars.
  • 94hawkskin94hawkskin Posts: 116
    I would argue that a $30,000 Camry or Accord is in the same class as a $24,000 Sonata. Which speaks very highly for the Sonata. I can't speak for the Fusion since I never test drove one. I do feel that the Camry and Accord is better, but not that much better to offset the price difference.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    How are you doing math?

    The price of the Fusion was $25,650 and the Camry was $30,840. Thats a $5200 price difference, not 7 grand. Get a grip and/or learn how to subtract. The Fusion lacks a lot of features at that price as well, including Bluetooth, Stability Control, Navigation, SmartKey, rear seat vents, rear window sunshade, 440 Watt JBL, etc...

  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    At some time soon the top management is going to want a return from the product managers on all the investments made in putting the Sonata solidly in the US market.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    I don't think the low prices are temporary. I believe Hyundai intends to make their living at prices $4-5K below Accord and Camry. Their new plant in Alabama has world-class automation and efficiency, and a lean workforce to make the low prices possible. The facility probably has tax concessions from the city and state to keep costs down as well.

    Hyundai would have been dumb to try and compete on equal terms with such great cars in such a crowded field.

    Money,,, the great equalizer!
  • ctsangctsang Posts: 237
    why do you think Hyundai can built a car cheaper than Toyota?
  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    I already told you. :)
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    Hyundai will always undercut its competitors – offering value while not sacrificing quality; and giving consumers more for their money. This is not a short-term plan, by the way.

    It is true the Sonata has its price range increased somewhat compared to the outgoing model, but you are getting a car that is so much better. On the other hand, the Camry is also priced higher (V6 trims, to be specific) vs. its outgoing model, and the same as well, an improvement over the outgoing model. In the end, I am sorry to tell you but your theory will continue to be one, until Hyundai makes an announcement that would significantly up the price on the Sonata (to Camry level)...but I don't see that happening anytime soon...sorry
  • You are seriously joking right? Do you honestly feel the Camry XLE V-6 could compete against the likes of Audi, BMW, VW and Acura? They would blow the doors off the Toyota. Toyotas are designed, engineered and built to be reliable no frills transportation. That is great for some, for for others we want good driving dynamics, style and a car that can take a curvy road at high velocity, and beg for more. The Camry is not that car. The new Fusion runs circles (driving dynamics wise) around the Camry and I would never, ever compare it to the entry-lux vehicles already named.
    The Camry might compete with the ES 350, but that is because it is the same car. I have never once seen the ES350 compared to an A6, 5 series BMW, or any other performance cars. It simply cannot compete.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    I dont think that they are dumping them, but they aren't fighting very hard to keep the $15000 buyer for a Camry. Let Hyundai service that buyer.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    It's harsh but it's the way managers look at business.

    No one wants to be considered 3rd rate, especially if the product is good and competitive. At some point someone at Hyundai will put his foot down and say 'Let's get a return on our investment'.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Did you read the review?

    The V6 was quicker than the 3-series which is what I put in my post. I also said that while the Camry might finish last it was competitive.

    Driving? You might want to take an SE V6 out and push it -if allowed. The big problem as noted in the review is that the VSC will kick in very early and take some of the 'slip-sliding' enjoyment away.

    The Fusion at present is 3rd rate with an underpowered V6, questionable crash test results and a lack of upscale features. The Sonata puts the Fusion in 4th.

    Where this top-of-the-line Camry fits is just as you said.. it's a Lexus ES350... at a discount. It does compare to the entry-lux versions I mentioned.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,632
    Who is considering Hyundai "3rd rate"? I haven't heard that opinion voiced within the auto industry for some time, not with the outstanding products that are coming out of that company on a regular basis. Do you think the Sonata taking third place to a couple of $30k sedans makes Hyundai "3rd rate"?

    In the meantime, Hyundai is grabbing a lot of buyers. Who do you think they are most likely to turn to when it's time to buy that next vehicle? Not Toyota or Honda. Hyundai is not just grabbing sales now, but for the future.
  • choe13choe13 Posts: 348
    The transmission is confused? yet on the other comparison and stand alone, these guys state how smooth the transmission is. The editors are confused in my opinion sometimes.

    This car came up short modeling the camcord? When this car is obliously modeled mostly on audi a6 and lexus 330? I mean where do these guys get their info, or do they scheme it up like what i think. Hyundai even stated they stripped apart the audi a6 and lexus 330 , why would you want to relate to camcord when u can use those cars as a ideal car to make instead?

    YEsterday i test drove the 07 camry, since my friend is an assistant manager at a toyota here. And this car hasn't improved much at all from last years car , driving dynamics wise(SE version is really not sporty at all). The interior is nicer, though the plastic feels cheap and doesn't feel buttoned down, the styling looks alot better in pictures than in person too. Will it sell? of course, is it worth it? maybe if it was 3 k less. Camry basically has reliability and with that good resale but thats all this car has .

    Personally where the camry has only evolved(it still uses struts, just barely good size discs for brakes, i mean just that ridiculous) where the sonata has revolved the way mid size cars should be made(multi link set up, bigger brakes, generous everything). Its styling is gorgeous(fusion is better?) , and everything else is above exceptional. Hyundai definitely hit a home run in regards to building a mid size car to the priorities consumer would like in a mid size car, no less, but just pure efficiency when u put in the price.
  • bjbird2bjbird2 Posts: 647
    I recently read that the majority of Toyota sales are to people over 50, and they are desperate to appeal to younger buyers. They fear they will be the Buick of this generation. Even their "youth brand', the Scion, is a big seller to retirees down in Florida, the polar opposite demographic than they are trying to appeal to.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    3rd rate doesnt mean the vehicle is bad. I said several times that it was very well built and good. It's just lacking in this comparo which is the top of the line trim in several features that move the Camry and likely the Accord significantly above it.

    The price issue is definitely there but what this Gen6 has done is put more cost pressure on Hyundai, Ford and Honda soon. Now to just reach the Camry's level the others have to add more features, a more powerful engine in Ford's, case and keep the refinement and durability.... then make a hybrid version with all of that.

    Another parallel? In the 80's the Reagen Admin broke the back of the competition ( USSR ) by outspending it on high technology. As the review said the other 3 now are about equal to the Gen5 Camry. The Accord has 18 mo's to leap over this Gen. The Fusion and Sonata are pretty much set for the next 4 years.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    That has been a concern for 10 years and it's well known. The Scion is such a hit it appeals to everyone. The Yaris will also. It's the tC which is driving Scion sales and that definitely is not an 'aging-boomer' vehicle... it's way too low to get into.
This discussion has been closed.