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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

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Comments

  • ctalkctalk Posts: 646
    The answer is from afar they look the same but it you compare what is in the bottle there are vast differences... yes they can both get you drunk but there are so many nuiances in the bottle itself.
    I dont see how it relates to Similar looking cars.

    Really it looks similar to the 05 Accord? I think it looks like the 03-04 Accord (look at page 11 I posted a picture of an 03-04 Accord next to the Sonata, have a look). I parked my 05 Accord beside the 06 Sonata. They dont look the same to me (well they do look a bit similar, they have the same shape).

    Anyways, finally someone who admits they look similar :)
  • boltmanboltman Posts: 85
    Ctalk...

    I looked at the pictures and you are 100% CORRECT. I think those are probably the years I'm mistaking the most. Now that I look at them I think the reason the 2006 Sonata and 03-04 Accord look similar is that their tailights are negatives of each other (reverses). The proportions and colors are similar hence the similar back end appearance.

    Of course that Honda Accord didn't have chrome tipped dual exhaust.. but I digress.
  • truethattruethat Posts: 123
    I've been coming here and reading your posts (here and other discussion fora)
    for a while now.
    Thanks for your insights. I really think you guys write wonderful (and passionate)
    opinions and that really is generally a good thing.
    Somewhere around the time of the Midsize Comparo results, all these nonsense
    (and nastiness) started to show up.

    Did Hyundai copy Honda in Sonata tail lights?
    You guys really think that's worth all these time and effort?
    I don't see where this discussion is going.
    You'll never settle such pointless arguement, don't you think?
    And does it really mean anything if one side wins?
    Maybe it's time to move on. I think you guys said all there is to be said about
    that specific subject.

    Anyhow,

    I am about to buy a car for myself (it'll be the first car i'll be able to call "mine").
    I am extremely interested in both Sonata and Accord.
    Sonata has shown awful resale values (although it just might get a little better)
    and the Accord is getting a little old (in terms of design i guess)

    I went to the Korean website for Sonata and they must have come out with new
    edition (very minor facelift?) for 2006. (I guess the model has been around for
    almost a year now over there) And frankly, I'm really impressed. Do you think
    they'll have this edition available in the US soon?(perhaps with a nav?)

    My friend owns an Accord and I test-drove (so to speak) a couple times and
    obviously there is very little I can complain about the performance of the car.
    Its styling (at this point) doesn't really seem like a selling point since they'll
    probably have a major change coming not too far from now. Is there any insight
    you guys can give me about the 2007 accord? (in terms of styling or performance, or anything?)

    I am throwing questions at you because
    1. it will be my first car and very important decision,
    2. and I really want you to move on.

    You guys are better than the silly scrutinization of every word posted.
  • ctalkctalk Posts: 646
    Exactly what i said before, we should stop.

    Are you buying the top of the line models? If so i would suggest you go with a Accord. I felt the front seats were more comfortable, interior has a better look (exterior, i have to say it goes to Sonata), leather felt more rich and came with features i like (dual-zone climate control, power passenger) If your looking to the lower end models like LX-G i would go with the Sonata, it comes with a lot of features at a great price.

    You should test drive the Sonata, its a great car, ample power, roomy, feature packed at a great price etc. Resale value will increase for the Sonata, you wont have to worry about that (but i'm not 100% sure). Navigation? I'm not sure when the Sonata is going to get. There are rumours going around saying it will be in the Sonata in November, but its not backed up by solid evidence.

    About the 2007 Accord, its actually a 2006 Accord. The EX-V6 will have a 6 speed manual. The lower end models (LX, LX-V6) will have more standard feautures like alloys, moonroof (i'm not totally sure though) Vehicle stability control will be standard on V6 models. If you want to know how it looks go to Edmunds future vehicles or vtec.net.

    Note: Edmunds just did an overview of the Sonata and i noticed on Cons they put "Still doesn't match the segment leaders when it comes to overall refinement"

    I highly suggest you test drive both vehicles, to see which one fits you best. For me it was the Accord.
  • choe13choe13 Posts: 348
    the 2007 accord will get a very mild mid cycle refresh. A couple of horsepower upgrades, some little add ons for the suspension, maybe some freshening up of the interior and the major change for the back.

    Would i buy it? No way. Its not enough changes to warrant a buy

    I think since it will be a car you want for the next little while and as you said will be important for you, you should check out 2007 Camry and 2006 sonata, which are pretty much brand new cars and have more modern buildings. Sonata is also priced very low for what it can give you

    I dun think you should worry about resale that much, hyundai for example gives you 10 years engine warranty that will no doubt increase your resale value

    Take some cars for a test drive, but if i were you, i would eye on the sonata and 2007 new camry
  • 03accordman03accordman Posts: 671
    Chloe, if you compare the 03-05 accord to the new sonata, there is a definite resemblance. Its not just the taillamps, it the over all design, the way the bumper meets the taillamps and the fender, the style of the licence place holder etc.

    There was a picture posted earlier that compared those two, they did look similar. I do agree with you, the Sonata's back looks better than the Accord, in fact as an Accord owner, I would have wanted those on the back of my car.

    Now, as far as the car itself goes, I am sure the Sonata is a huge improvement over its predecessor, but as of now, the Accord and Camry remain the benchmarks in this class. It takes time to wipe the slate clean.
  • ctalkctalk Posts: 646
    For pictures of the 2007 Camry go to
    2007 camry
    looks very stylish to me. It is believed to come out possibly in March of 06. It will be one of the most powerful sedans out, it is believed to have 260+ hp. The Accord will get 10hp increase on its Inline4 and 6 cylinder models, in order to compete with the upcoming Camry. Dont look down on the Accord even though its been out for a long time. It is still a very strong player, and should definetly be considered when buying an midsize (its safe, comfortable, powerful, refined) and i really honestly dont see how the Sonata is 'a generation ahead' of Accord.
    Note: I dont think Honda is ready to lose it 10 best spot on Car and Driver.

    I expect the next Camry to have a sportier demeanor and a stylish exterior. Toyota has been improving its designs starting with the current Avalon, and has been improving their "boring, bland" images.

    You should test drive the Sonata and Accord (and i highly suggest you wait for the 07 Camry). Keep us posted on your decision ;)
  • ctalkctalk Posts: 646
    Me and Choe have been argueing over the topic 'Sonata looks like Accord' for a very long time. PLEASE do not bring it up again!

    Now, as far as the car itself goes, I am sure the Sonata is a huge improvement over its predecessor, but as of now, the Accord and Camry remain the benchmarks in this class. It takes time to wipe the slate clean.
    Very true, but Hyundai is definitely going to make a dent.
  • choe13choe13 Posts: 348
    "am sure the Sonata is a huge improvement over its predecessor, but as of now, the Accord and Camry remain the benchmarks in this class"

    do you think the sonata is like a pontiac G6 or something?? Please take a look at the edmunds mid size comparo if you haven't and see who won. Even if it was a full fledge V6 comparison , hyundai would still win having a great price kicker(that couldn't ever save them before)

    Also 03accordman, like your nickname insist, i think its a good bet to say you own an accord. Why don't you back what you say about benchmark etc, and take a measily test drive of this sonata(even just for fun).

    Until then u can't be talking about this past glory accord and camry are benchmarks, things change. And i believe i'm in a better seat position to know that things change, because i test driven all three in the past month, and the sonata was found to be the new benchmark mid size car in my books. The camry and accord just aren't as sophisticated and classy currently compared to the sonata
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    This board seems to have become a bastion for a useless argument on styling, which is totally a personally preference, and one that, in research studies, has historically ranked low on the scale as deciding factors in this segment. Perhaps we can go back to debating these car's merits, and include a few others, such as the Altima and 6?

    ~alpha
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Posts: 4,202
    as some would make it out to be.

    Example: A Honda Accord LX automatic invoices for $19074 while a Sonata GL automatic invoices for $18456. That's a $600 difference. That's pretty darn close.

    An EX Automatic Accord invoices for $21,250 while a Sonata GLS is $19,780. A difference of $1500 or so.

    A EX-V6 Accord invoices for $24713 while a Sonata LX is $23,339. Again a difference of $1500.

    For a maximum difference of $1500 my money would still be going to the Honda dealership. It's safe to say that even over a 5 year spread the Accord will recover that $1500 in it's higher resale value.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    Simply looking at price effectively ignores feature content, and you make an assumption that all purchases are at invoice. (Actually, right now, that argument favors the Accord which is seeing factory to dealer discounts greater than ever in the vehicle's history, but you understand my point).

    A big deal for me is that the Sonata offers stability control, which is showing incredibly promising results in just about every study in which its been examined. The price gap, then, narrows for example, on the LX vs. GL to $600 + a HUGE amount of peace of mind.

    ~alpha
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Posts: 4,202
    isn't important to a lot of people. The Civic and Camry offer side airbags as a $200-$300 option. How many people actually were willing to pay extra for them?

    If the Accord is shown to have better crash test ratings what $$$ amount would you put on that?
  • choe13choe13 Posts: 348
    where are you getting these figures?!?!

    sonata gls is about 20 grand, and lx is no more than 22,500

    accord on the other hand for its ex its 22 k and ex-v6 24,500 or 25

    even with rebates etc i dun believe the max diff is 1500. more like max diff can go up to 2000-2500. You must know some generous honda dealers or something

    Ctalk you talk about reputation, and theres no denying that. Even i'm not that foolish to say a 1 year car, or even a company that has gone through mad shambles be all that refined and great after just a couple of years. But why i would feel great owning such a car are two reasons, 1 it was won JD quality for initial mid size car two years in running now, and 2 when u drive the car, you can just tell by everything that it was made with superior craftmanship. The jd power you may think may not mean that much , but it is one of the most prestiges awards to warrant quality(almost like comparing the worst baseball team in the league and if they win a couple of world series or division titles in a row, alot of teams will take notice)

    Hyundai is just gathering speed at the right moments and the pieces are coming together fast (not easy to do in the auto market, ei look at pontiac G6)
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    Lots of flaws in your last post, IMO.

    1) The side airbags on the Camry are about $650, and in my area, all XLE 4s and XLE V6s are equipped with them. Most LE V6s and about half of LE 4s are ordered by dealers with the option, though I cant say I've ever seen an SE 4 with it.

    2) The current Civic's side airbags are practically useless as they afford no protection to either a) the head/neck of the driver and front passenger or b) the heads of the outboard rear passengers. Additionally, the Civic competes in a different segment where safety is less of an emphasis due to economy, whereas in the "FAMILY CAR" segment, safety is often a selling point. I dont think the amount of people willing to pay extra for a borderline wasted safety feature in a completely different class of car matters at all to the discussion of Midsize Import Sedans.

    3) The Accord has better crash test results than which car? The Camry w/o side airbags, yes. The Camry with side airbags... from what I can see they are both the same... Best Pick in IIHS frontal offset, "Good" in IIHS Side Impact. The NHTSA test strike me as wildly outdated, a waste of taxpayer dollars, and at the very least, the side impact test they conduct severely misinforms average consumers because Head Injury is not a factor in the star rating. Also note that the percentage of likelihood of injury for the star ratings is not the same in the frontal and side NHTSA ratings, which is confusing- the star ratings for frontal allow for a higher percentage of likely injury before stars are deducted, a bizarre practice.

    However, in effort to show all results, Front Driver/Front Passenger/Side Driver/Side Right Rear Passenger

    Those for the 2005 Accord 4 Door with standard Side Airbags: 5/5/4/4
    Those for the 2005 Camry 4 Door without Side Airbags: 5/5/4/3

    Obviously, we dont have info on the Sonata just yet.

    Finally, regarding stability control: http://www.iihs.org/news_releases/2004/pr102804.htm

    ~alpha
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    "Example: A Honda Accord LX automatic invoices for $19074 while a Sonata GL automatic invoices for $18456. That's a $600 difference. That's pretty darn close.

    An EX Automatic Accord invoices for $21,250 while a Sonata GLS is $19,780. A difference of $1500 or so.

    A EX-V6 Accord invoices for $24713 while a Sonata LX is $23,339. Again a difference of $1500."

    The above information is incorrect.

    2005 Accord LX auto: $19,034 Invoice
    2006 Sonata GL auto: $17,957 Invoice

    Difference: $1,077

    http://www.kbb.com/kb/ki.dll/kw.kc.ncop?kbb.VA;542651;VA013&22202&&;;nc;sed&4&06HYAD_GA;05- 0703

    http://www.kbb.com/kb/ki.dll/kw.kc.ncop?kbb.VA;183856;VA013&22202&&;;nc;&5&05HOA3_LSA;0507- 03

    2005 Accord EX-V6: $24,673
    2006 Sonata LX w/ Package 3: $22,839

    Difference: $1834

    http://www.kbb.com/kb/ki.dll/kw.kc.ncop?kbb.VA;107182;VA013&22202&&;;nc;&5&05HOYD_6SA;0507- 03

    http://www.kbb.com/kb/ki.dll/kw.kc.ncoe?kbb.VA;624240;VA013&22202&&;;nc;sed&4&06HYLX_L;050- 703
  • shado4shado4 Posts: 287
    What about the Sonata sets it apart from Accord and Camry (besides the price)?

    You're joking, right?

    The Sonata is the first mid-size car to offer standard ABS, traction control, stability control, active front headrests, and side curtain airbags on every trim level. Don't see that on an Accord, Camry, Fusion, G6, Altima, Malibu, Galant, Jetta, etc. do you? I think that qualifies as an industry benchmark more so than dual-zone climate control.

    As for sophistication, the Sonata uses a complex multi-link strut system for the trunk, eliminating the awful, space-robbing goose neck hinges found on other mid-size sedans. The Sonata is also measurably quieter than an Accord.

    The bar has been raised. Now it's time for Honda and Toyota to play catchup, because their offerings right now pale in comparison to Hyundai's new Sonata when it comes to bang for the buck.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    Also, aside from its ~$1100 invoice price advantage, the 2006 Sonata GL offers over the 2005 Accord LX:

    Split folding rearseat (no split on the Accord)
    Trip computer
    Heated side mirrors
    Stability control
    Traction control
    Rear disc brakes (drum on the Accord LX)
    16" tires (15" on the Accord LX)
    60/60,000 v. 36/36,000 Basic Warranty
    120/100,000 vs. 36/36,000 Powertrain Warranty

    The 2006 Accord is getting heated side mirrors, stability control and traction control (LX), but expect a corresponding increase in price.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    "The Accord was considered a benchmark for this generation because it came with features never seen before in a mid-size sedan (dual-zone climate control, 240 hp)"

    No, the Accord was considered the benchmark because of its great combination of ride, driving experience, features, materials, power, safety, and price.

    First of all, you're wrong about the "first-in-segment" 240hp. The 2002 Altima with the 240hp/246 torque V6 set a new power bar in this segment, not the Accord.

    The Accord (EX+ models) was the first in this segment with dual-zone climate control, but I wouldn't really call that any revolutionary thing (although my wife and I love the feature on her Accord!).
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    "The Sonata is the first mid-size car to offer standard ABS, traction control, stability control, active front headrests, and side curtain airbags on every trim level. Don't see that on an Accord, Camry, Fusion, G6, Altima, Malibu, Galant, Jetta, etc. do you?"

    This isn't correct either.

    The 2003 Accord was the first sedan in this segment to offer as standard ABS across all trim levels.

    And the 2005 Accord was the first sedan in this segment to offer side airbags AND side curtain airbags standard across all trim levels.
  • 210delray210delray Posts: 4,722
    As for sophistication, the Sonata uses a complex multi-link strut system for the trunk, eliminating the awful, space-robbing goose neck hinges found on other mid-size sedans.

    Yes, the strut system is more sophisticated and gets the hinges out of the trunk space, BUT every car I've seen with them has a smaller trunk aperture to accomodate them. Look at the wide sills on the Sonata, for example, that surround the aperture.

    I think I'd rather have the enclosed goosenecks as on the Camry, to get the wider opening, and with the enclosures, it's not possible to crush anything with the goosenecks when the trunk is shut.
  • sugoiyasugoiya Posts: 12
    is probably that cursive H on the grill. No doubt about it, the Sonata looks like a wonderful car on paper and is probably even better on the road. Unfortunately, too many people will pass it by because it’s a Hyundai. Case in point:

    Less than six months a go I accompanied my niece help her check out her first new car. She whittled her choices down to a Civic DX, a Corolla CE, and an Elantra. I accompanied her as she test drove all of them and helped her realize that the Civic and Corolla were strippers in that trim and that that the Elantra would be her best bet.

    Last month I heard from her dad that she was driving a brand new Toyota Echo with a manual tranny and crank windows. Plus they forked over another grand for an extended warranty.

    “He just couldn’t stand by and let her buy a Hyundai,” he told me.

    “Too unreliable,” was his reasoning.

    Daddy knows best I suppose. (BTW, he’s my wife’s brother)
  • shado4shado4 Posts: 287
    It is correct if you take into consideration that the Sonata is the first mid-size car to make standard all of these items on every trim level of a car at the same time.

    Right now, no other competitor can make this claim. Sounds like an industry standard benchmark to me.
  • ctalkctalk Posts: 646
    Sounds like an industry benchmark? The Accord in some ways is still better than the Sonata. If its an industry benchmark it should beat the Accord in every category (or atleast tie). Just because it offers more bang for the buck does not mean it is an industry benchmark. That might set the bar high for toyota and honda to put more standard features in their cars. To be a industry benchmark It should be more powerful, more fuel efficient. Rather than being= to the Accord and slower to the Altima. The NG Accord and Camry are going to be very powerful, and more fuel efficient.
  • johnson5johnson5 Posts: 34
    I work in the emergeny room of a mid size hospital. It is also a trauma center. We see several MVA patients everyday. I lost a couple of my friends driving a compact cars like corolla and civic without side airbags.

    Unfortunately I am the one to inform this bad information to their families.
    From what I see every day

    Compact cars without side bags are out of my list.
    I do not know much about the safety of compact cars like civic (2006) or Elantra 2006.Not out yet.
    Mazda 3 comes with them and it costs 600 dollars extra. For me (I can buy an Accord for that price.
    Some manufacturers like Nissan –offer maxima with side bags only with a hole in the roof.

    I think sun roof or moon roof compromises structural integrity. I rarely use it. I have seen few roll overs. I do not like moon roof (safety aspect)

    Sonata is one car which comes with active head restraints. As far as I know none of the other manufacturers in my price range offer it.

    Some people project with in 2 years the gas prices may go up to 3 dollars like people pay in Europe. Considering all this I will wait for Accord =06, Camry o7 or Elantra o6 and then make my decision with a 4 cylinder version or may go with a Sonata .
    It is a compromise between safety and gas mileage
  • newcar31newcar31 Posts: 3,711
    If its an industry benchmark it should beat the Accord in every category

    If that's what it takes to be the industry benchmark, then there is no such thing.

    There isn't a car out there that is the best or tied in every category.
  • ctalkctalk Posts: 646
    If the Sonata is considered an industry benchmark, it should atleast be more powerful than the Accord (or Altima) better mileage, and (imo features that are not in the top-of the line Accord) The NG Camry and Accord are going to be much better than their current designs, they are going to have a lot of power, new features etc. The Sonata to me is = to the Accord (odviously not in price and bang for the buck) I admit the Sonata did set the bar high when it comes to standard features, but i dont think that makes it an industry benchmark.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    newcar31, I completely agree with you. A benchmark absolutely ISNT necessarily better in every measure. Thats strikes me as absurd logic and as being next to impossible. How can one vehicle be superior to every competitor in every way? If the Accord was the benchmark to this point, it certainly wasnt better in ride and quiet than the Camry, its not a better handler than the 6, its not more fuel efficient than a Prius, its not roomier than an Altima, etc. In my opinion, a benchmark is the vehicle that represents the least severe compromises and combines the best attributes of competitors, which the Accord effectively has done. Until now.

    ~alpha
  • newcar31newcar31 Posts: 3,711
    If the Sonata is considered an industry benchmark, it should atleast be more powerful than the Accord (or Altima) better mileage

    Who are you to decide what makes a car a benchmark? It doesn't have more power than the Accord? So what? It accelerates just as good as the Accord does.

    Certain BMW models have often been considered "benchmarks", but they don't necessarily have the most power, the most room, the best fuel economy, etc.
  • ctalkctalk Posts: 646
    Some BMW models are considered benchmarks because of their 'legendary handling'.
This discussion has been closed.