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Hybrids Success in the Marketplace - Hybrid Sales Numbers

24

Comments

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,895
    Let's hope people (car buyers) are not so shallow and sheep-like that so many of them were only buying hybrids for the tax break. Shame on them if they were

    You are funny guy. It was not just the price of gas or the tax break. It was also the HOV sticker. When they are all gone NO one will buy a Prius or HCH.

    I think the TCH has a better chance of making it on its own merit. As long as they sell them at a price break that is acceptable to the buyers.

    I guess you also noticed that Prius sales are lower for the year. In fact Toyota overall sales increase is mostly in the truck division. The Corolla and Scion have kept the numbers high for Toyota cars. People really want an SUV. The knee jerk reaction to higher gas prices was go buy a Corolla or Scion. When the gas prices were peaking out is when they should have bought that SUV they wanted.

    What's the bet Prius does not make their 110k goal for 2006?
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Prius will not hit 110,000 for sure, because that would mean 10,164 each month in Nov and Dec, and that's not very likely.

    Anyone with a brain knew the TCH would take some sales out of the Prius camp. And lower gas prices are probably the most damaging issue.

    The HOV stickers were extended to take in 10,000 more hybrid owners, so that's probably not much of a factor.

    And saving the best for last:

    gary says: "When the HOV stickers are all gone NO one will buy a Prius or HCH. "

    Let's make a bet on THAT one big fella.....are you saying Prius and HCH sales are based SOLELY on HOV access? In what state? There's no hybrid HOV access privilege in Arizona, but they still sell plenty of hybrids.

    Anyone who buys a hybrid for only ONE reason, the HOV privilege, is a fool. That's right, a FOOL. :shades:
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,895
    If anyone is looking for a Prius. Check out Bob Baker Toyota of Lemon Grove. They have 30 Prius on the lot with 30 more coming in. Prices start at $21,725 according to their website?

    Prius fire sales

    PS
    They show 64 Highlander Hybrids in their inventory. Is that possible for one dealer, even a big one?
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Google search of news finds no stories about hybrid glut.

    However excited you are about the prospect Gary, I think it's a little early to start thinking that dealers will be selling them off at invoice prices..... :shades:
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,895
    They have been selling the Highlander Hybrid at invoice for several months. Several posters have gotten big discounts on the Prius over the last month. The Tax credit strangle hold is a non issue now.

    I have not seen the HCH sales figures for Honda. I doubt it is anything to shout about. The Civic sales are off 10% over last year. The old generation Corolla ate their lunch. If it were not for big gains in SUV and minivan sales, Honda would have a losing year.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Allow me to enlighten you:

    Honda Civic sales in October were:

    2,288

    and for the year are:

    26,637, which is 25.3% higher than the YTD HCH sales in October of 2005.

    So they are UP.

    HAH sales are down 67.8% in 2006 versus 2005.

    Insight sales however are UP 27.1% over 2005 figures.

    YTD Honda hybrid sales are:

    32,278

    which is down 13% from this time last year, mostly on the tanking of the HAH sales.

    from this page:

    Honda reports Oct 2006 sales
  • terry92270terry92270 Posts: 1,247
    I understand what you are saying, however if you look at all sales figures, for all models and manufacturers, what do you see?

    Lots of models are way down. :P
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,895
    No comment on the fact that Toyota and Honda are making their real gains selling SUVs and trucks? That is the real story of American vehicle sales. Those of us that would like to use less energy are not winning. The main reason? Polarization. I want to save with diesel you want to save with complex technology. The same battle is being fought at a much higher level. Where we have little or no say in the matter.

    Look at the bright side. Honda can probably sell their hybrids for at least another year before the incentive gets cut in half. Then GM will get a shot at the Pork with their new hybrids.
  • terry92270terry92270 Posts: 1,247
    "The main reason? Polarization"

    Exactly.

    Just as we see in most other areas of society; Polarization, impatience, anger and intolerance of other points of view.

    Including board forums. ;)
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    No, absolutely the main reason is not POLARIZATION between diesel and hybrid advocates. That's a little egotistic to say that we are so important, eh?

    Even diesel and hybrid combined is less than 8% of the market.

    Us battling amongst ourselves has nothing to do with Joe SixPack taking up GM on that 6-yr zero interest SUV offer.

    People in the USA like trucks and SUVs when gas prices are "low" and nothing we diesel or hybrid advocates can do will change that.
  • terry92270terry92270 Posts: 1,247
    So, somehow the people posting here are different, more elite than "Joe Six Pack" :confuse:

    And here I thought users here included Joe....

    You can tell from the strident tones and urgency in these forums, they reflect the public at large, which is polarization, short tempers where people who disagree with them are concerned....... IMO.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Actually, most people on here ARE different (not better or worse than Joe) because they care enough to spend time on a "hybrid vehicle" computer forum.

    JoeSixpack driving his Tahoe, if he has time for computer use, is going to be on the TAHOE forum, not likely the hybrid forums.

    Any Joes are of course welcome here; it's just that mostly they don't CARE about what we hybrid and diesel car advocates have to say.
  • terry92270terry92270 Posts: 1,247
    I would submit, that is exactly the problem.

    People assuming. And of course we all know what that stands for. ;)

    Tahoe drivers, large engine cars, and I do own a S Class, know the technology exists to give us what we want, with alternative fuels. Many alternative advocates spend most of their time arguing for smaller, tiny cars, and the market place, not experts proves people don't want them.

    Lets watch the sales figures on the Highlander and Camry Hybrids, and the coming entries from Mercedes, shall we?
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    I would contend that high or low gas prices have a lot to say about dictating to people what they need to drive.

    Hybrids and smaller cars became hot sellers after Katrina last year, and that mostly kept pace with higher gas prices.

    As prices drop, and people realize they can still afford the bulky SUV or truck and not get hammered in astronomical fuel bills, they go for the big stuff.

    It's sad, really. The family that rationalized and said "we REALLY CAN make do with a Sentra instead of a Tahoe" when prices were $2.98 are now at $1.85 saying "nope, we'll just keep the Tahoe."

    My guess is that hybrids will continue to sell in reduced numbers as long as gas prices stay low, and trucks and SUVs will increase or stay high.

    A total shame......
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    The difference in annual sales thru 10 mo's is inconsequential. In the end it will end up in the 105,000 to 110,000 unit range just as expected. Looking at one month's sales doesn't prove much.

    What is a very likely factor in any decline is that this model is now entering it's 4th year and just now the prices are coming off of MSRP in most areas. For the next 24 months I think the Prius will be just like any other vehicle getting up in age. It's the normal cycle.

    I want to see what the new HH is. If it's the same as the TCH with much better FE ratings and a lower price it will be a hit. If it's the same as this model, just with a nicer skin and features, well it will be a small part of the product mix.
  • terry92270terry92270 Posts: 1,247
    Yes, totally agree. We need to see about two Quarter's worth of sales figures, maybe three, to determine that.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,895
    Looking at one month's sales doesn't prove much.

    The proof is in what the dealers have left on the lots. I don't know what the current average time is for a Prius to sit on the lot. If it goes out a long ways that can be critical for the hybrids. Early on there were Prius that sat for longer periods of time and it caused issues with the batteries draining and being ruined. If some dealers are sitting with 30-100 Prius on the lots, it could be a problem. If you are a potential hybrid buyer and you are getting a great deal on a HH that has been sitting for 3 months on the lot. I would want proof that the battery was in new condition.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    This is true of the Prius'. They do need to be driven every week.. or disconnected entirely if sitting for more than 2 weeks.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,618
    the best strategy is to limit your driving. then it doesn't matter much what you choose, it is all semantics.
  • tpetpe Posts: 2,342
    My guess is that hybrids will continue to sell in reduced numbers as long as gas prices stay low,

    That's a very significant statement. We now consider $2.20/gallon gas to be cheap. It is cheap but a few years ago when gas first crossed the $2 threshold people were up in arms wondering how they would make ends meet and what would the government do about it. Our definition of what we consider to be cheap gas is going up much faster than the inflation rate. That's good, we are starting to get in touch with reality.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Prius: 8,008 - best November sales ever
    TCH: 3,100 - up about 300 cars from October
    RX400h - 1,327 - up almost a hundred from October
    HiHy: 1,667 - up slightly over October
    gs450h - lumped with gs430, sold 196 total - up about 20 cars from October
    Civic Hybrid - 2,208, slightly lower than October
    Accord Hybrid - 311 - up slightly over October
    Insight - only 2 cars sold - they hardly have any left !!

    Can find no numbers for the saturn vue hybrid or the Ford Escape/mercury Mariner hybrids yet.

    So the jury is still out on what effect the end of the tax breaks and the slightly higher gas prices will have on Hybrid sales in the USA. Seems like more were up than down, so I guess so far you have to say the effect has been minimal at most.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    Honda is coming out with a Hybrid Fit next year to effectively replace the insight, and there's a Camry hybrid and Corolla as well, plus I can't imagine Mazda and Nissan won't get into the market very shortly as well. The Altima with that CVT is almost made for a quick conversion.

    GM and Ford? Their idea is to stick a bunch of batteries in a pickup truck or van. No desire at all.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,895
    GM and Ford? Their idea is to stick a bunch of batteries in a pickup truck or van. No desire at all.

    Being the owner of a GMC Hybrid I will agree that the first hybrids from GM are not much to write home about. I think that Ford made an effort with the Escape and Mariner. Now GM is offering the Saturn Vue. The SUV hybrids are aimed at mainstream buyers. I would take your comments as negative toward US manufacturers.
  • terry92270terry92270 Posts: 1,247
    Well, duh! :P

    Whats NOT to be negative about the way Ford and GM have done business the past two decades?

    It is going to take them a really long time to dig themselves out, Gary. I know they can, but you don't overcome years of suspicion and mistreatment by bringing out a few years of good product....
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,895
    I'm not a big Ford fan. But in fairness their hybrid SUV is more economical than the Toyota offering. Isn't that the main reason for the hybrids. I just believe in giving credit when it is due. I was responding to a post that claimed GM & Ford were doing nothing.
  • terry92270terry92270 Posts: 1,247
    Well, I am an odd duck, I understand, but I don't think the main purpose of Hybrids is to be economical, although I will give you many initial buyers latched onto them for that reason. I think that acutally surprised the designers.

    I think the main purpose of Hybrids is to reduce our reliance on fossil fuels, and to lessen emissions. :)
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Total hybrids sold in 2006 in the USA:

    Slightly more than 251,000 units—an increase of 22% compared to 2005.

    I guess the hybrid "revolution" goes forward, eh doubters? :shades: Not a :lemon: in the bunch !!!
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    A couple of years ago, Gary and I were discussing whether or not hybrids would "survive" and I was saying how many upcoming hybrids there were. He was somewhat doubtful.

    Here is the current list:

    * Ford Escape 2WD Hybrid Model Year 2008
    * Mercury Mariner 2WD Hybrid Model Year 2008
    * Ford Escape 4WD Hybrid Model Year 2008
    * Mercury Mariner 4WD Hybrid Model year 2008
    * Chevrolet Silverado 2WD Hybrid Pickup Truck
    * Chevrolet Silverado 4WD Hybrid Pickup Truck
    * Ford Escape Hybrid 2WD
    * Ford Escape Hybrid 4WD
    * GMC Sierra 2WD Hybrid Pickup Truck
    * GMC Sierra 4WD Hybrid Pickup Truck
    * Honda Accord Hybrid AT
    * Honda Civic Hybrid CVT
    * Lexus GS 450h
    * Lexus RX 400h 2WD and 4WD
    * Nissan Altima Hybrid
    * Saturn Aura Hybrid
    * Saturn Vue Green Line
    * Toyota Camry Hybrid
    * Toyota Prius
    * Toyota Highlander Hybrid 2WD and 4WD

    That's 14 vehicles. Seems like a success so far. 2007 will be a record year again since gas prices at skyrocketing again.
  • Karen_CMKaren_CM Posts: 5,018
    A reporter for a weekend news program is looking to interview consumers in the Los Angeles area who are interested in purchasing a hybrid. Please reply to ctalati@edmunds.com no later than Thursday, March 22, 2007 with your daytime contact info.

    Community Manager If you have any questions or concerns about the Forums, send me an email, karen@edmunds.com, or click on my screen name to send a personal message.

  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Toyota Hybrids still doing VERY WELL, thanks much !!

    Toyota Division
    Toyota Division passenger cars recorded best-ever March sales of 121,881, up 13.6 percent over the same period last year. Passenger car sales were led by Camry, which posted March sales of 42,254, up 4.5 percent over the same period last year. Camry Hybrid reported sales of 5,144 units in March. The Prius hybrid gas-electric mid-size sedan posted all-time best-ever monthly sales for the second consecutive month with 19,156 units sold, an increase of 133.2 percent. Corolla reported best-ever March sales of 34,355, an increase of 2.5 percent. The Yaris subcompact posted sales totaling 7,614 units for the month.


    March Sales Toyota
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