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High-End European Luxury Sedans

1911131415

Comments

  • emaussemauss Posts: 151
    I have an A8L on order (to be delivered before year's end) and personally the grill was a major plus for me. I think the new look sets the car apart in (IMHO) a tasteful yet definitive manner. (Oh yeah, VW has it too, and next year's Phaeton is rumored to get a similar nose).

    I guess that's what makes the world go 'round.....

    (e)
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    (Oh yeah, VW has it too, and next year's Phaeton is rumored to get a similar nose).

    No, say it isn't so. I don't get it. They give Audi a unique face and then turn around start giving something very similar to VWs. All they really did with the Audi is remove more of the center section of the grille/bumper area because Audis have had double grilles (upper/lower) for years now, but they weren't "connected" in the way they are now. Now VW does almost the same thing with the new Jetta and Passat. :confuse:

    The VW Phaeton is an exercise in classic-conservative good looks and shouldn't be tampered with. It isn't going to make the car sell any better either.

    M
  • emaussemauss Posts: 151
    My friend has a Phaeton (which I will be driving this weekend from NYC to Baltimore), and the looks of the 2006 Audi is a contributing reason for my purchase of the A8L over the VW. I don't think the VW should get the "chrome-ized" nose of the Passat (or is it the Jetta?), but in my opinion it certainly could use some updating. The outside is too Plain Jane....but the inside is to die for......

    (e)
  • Thanks for fixing the link.

    I have been thinking - probably it is not unusual for a car company to have a handful of models carrying the line.

    Yes, the CLS is hot. It is the most distinctive Benz in many years. IMO.
  • rjlaerorjlaero Posts: 659
    +1 for the CLS. It's one of the more striking designs of the last 25 years by Mercedes, and one of the few MB products right now that I really like.

    I'll have to refrain from the 07 S class until I see it in person. But from photos, it's not looking too good.
  • Dealer stock is really low on the CLS: sales would probably be higher if availability was better. Even so numbers are well ahead of projections.

    I hope MB will increase CLS production. It is one of my favorite sedans of the last 25-30 years.

    You can send me a CLS if you want. I have a space for it in my 'favorite sedan garage' along with a Jaguar XJ Super and a Cadillac DTS.
  • emaussemauss Posts: 151
    I don't agree....Maybe it's sour grapes, but my boss has a CLS 55AMG (and Phaeton for bad weather) and I am not impressed. The level of luxury is below that of the S class, and while there is a lot more room in the rear than, say, a Lexus SC430, I think of the backseat in a similar way (okay...it's more like the BMW 650...) I do enjoy driving it, but for the 110K he paid, I think there are better choices. (Did someone say Maserati??) Then again, I bought a lowly Audi A8L :-)

    (E)
  • You're not impressed by a 469HP CLS55? Given the "personal" design mission of this striking 4-door coupe, how and where is the luxury level beneath an S-Class? It certainly never had the intention of matching the S in interior room. Just want to know...
  • emaussemauss Posts: 151
    The car seemed closer on the inside to a loaded E-class than to an S-class. Even the closing of the doors seemed "not as nice" as the all-out luxury cars.
    Another friend has an E55. The interior of that seems very comparable to the CLS55. Neither one is bad (far from it), but they are both (IMHO) inferior to the S, the Audi and VW.

    (e)
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Well the CLS is a E-Class underneath, not an S-Class level vehicle. The CLS55 AMG isn't about luxury as much as it is about speed and power so comparing it to a A8/S-Class or Phaeton isn't exactly apples to apples. The Maserati Quattroporte is a gorgeous car for sure, but its tanny and ride aren't even close to the CLS from eveything I've seen. Plus the CLS55 will blow it away on anything but a twisty mountain road.

    M
  • garyh1garyh1 Posts: 386
    The thing I don't get about the CLS is who is supposed to buy it. If you want to accommodate rear seat passengers, easier access through rear doors is fine, but once in there, wouldn't you want to give them reasonably comfortable head room? And if you don't care about putting folks in the back, why deal with the design limitations of the 4 door design, when you can pick even better looking, better proportioned 2 door models?

    I guess it works for the person who really wants a 2 door sports car, but has small kids who he or she needs carry in the back.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I guess it works for the person who really wants a 2 door sports car, but has small kids who he or she needs carry in the back.

    Well that could be one person that would buy a CLS, but the main draw for the CLS is the styling, interior and performance, with all that practical jazz coming second. It really isn't much different from buyers who purchase a SC430 or 911 and try to use their backseats. Which are useless compared to the CLS. Not that the 911, CLS and SC430 are competitors, just that they are similarly compromised from a practical point of view. I think the 2007 CLS550 with the 5.5L V8 (382hp) will be a relative bargain within the Mercedes lineup.

    M
  • bdr127bdr127 Posts: 950
    It really isn't much different from buyers who purchase a SC430 or 911 and try to use their backseats.

    I think the point, though, is that MB made the CLS with 4 doors.... Other cars like the SC430 and 911 you mentioned only have 2 doors, which lends to more sporty styling.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Other cars like the SC430 and 911 you mentioned only have 2 doors, which lends to more sporty styling.

    Yeah in the case of the 911 sure, but not in the case of the ladybug wearing manhole covers for wheels SC430. Nothing sporty about its styling in the least to me.

    M
  • garyh1garyh1 Posts: 386
    bdr127 got my point exactly. To try to keep this out of the neverending MB/Lexus fires that somehow merc1 couldn't resist stoking ;) , I'm saying I'd go for a SL or CL (or even a SLK) over the CLS if I didn't care about people in the back. And if I did care about back seat comfort, I'd go for an E over the CLS.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Then you both missed the point of the CLS. It isn't about practical seating arrangements. It is about having the capability to sometimes carry people in the back like a proper sedan, but with much better styling than the average sedan.

    The CLS isn't a "logic" car it is a stylish add on to the otherwise practical Mercedes sedan lineup. It is the emotional choice, not a rational one.

    It is for people who want something different and a lot of people do if its sales are anything to go buy. With a car like the CLS some people will get it and other won't thats the whole appeal of such a car to some.

    M
  • emaussemauss Posts: 151
    "The CLS isn't a "logic" car it is a stylish add on to the otherwise practical Mercedes sedan lineup. It is the emotional choice, not a rational one"

    I think you hit the nail on the head. My friend who has the CLS55 has it as his "good weather" car. His other vehicle is a Phaeton. The combination of the two make sense (well, actually DOLLARS would be a better term, but that is not relevant to this discussion). My objections to the CLS revolve around the lack of practicality for my individual situation. Taken in combination with a "luxury only" vehicle that does not masquerade as a sports car, it works fine.
  • garyh1garyh1 Posts: 386
    My friend who has the CLS55 has it as his "good weather" car. His other vehicle is a Phaeton.

    I was all ready to reply to merc1's post to thank him for his explanation and to say I now got it. :shades: Then I read your post and it totally confused me again. :confuse: If I had a Phaeton as my "people mover", for my second car I would still get a real coupe or roadster, not a CLS.

    I guess I'll stick with merc1's explanation, and leave you to deal with your friend - he must be an interesting fellow.
  • emaussemauss Posts: 151
    To him,a 911 is just too low to the ground.

    Go figure.....
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I can understand what type of buyer he is. He really doesn't want a "sports car" like the 911, but a touring car like the CLS55 AMG. Lots of engine and brakes, but still rides good with power to outrun almost anything you'd encounter on the road.

    Of course the Phaeton's heft, V8 (or does he have a W12?) and awd I would imagine make it unstoppable in bad weather.

    That said I'd add a 911 Carrera S Cabrio or SL55 AMG to the mix. I suspect he'd like the SL55 AMG better.

    M
  • emaussemauss Posts: 151
    It was very nice. I drove all the way, and the car rides GREAT. Can't wait for my Audi....shudda ordered the double pane glass!
  • paldipaldi Posts: 210
    Philly to Reston Virginia 3.5 hours - felt more relaxed in my Phaeton than in my den. Sport setting great on the cloverleafs, 35 pounds air in the tires, can't hear anything outside thanks to the dual glass and the insulation in the doors and body. The car flys!

    Needs updaiting... Wheels, grill area redo, eliminate side chrome strip, more aggressive fenderline.
  • emaussemauss Posts: 151
    Amen to all those items.

    As you know I have the A8L on order and am happy with that, but I would not have gone wrong at all with the VW. It is certainly a classy, luxurious and comfortable vehicle.

    All the nay-sayers have n0ot driven the car. If they did, they would be believers.

    It is in an elite class and belongs there!

    (E)
  • emaussemauss Posts: 151
    ..where is the control for the seat massage on the Phaeton? The car I am driving has the upgraded leather and I found the switch for the fan in the seat...but could not find the massage feature. Is it near the lumbar knob?

    (e)
  • paldipaldi Posts: 210
    The seat message control button is the square push button directly under the lumbar controller (round joystick at top left of seat control buttons). It runs for 10 minutes. To turn it off sooner, move the lumbar joystick in any direction, briefly.

    BTW, the switchs for the seat fans heats the seat if you go +1, +2 or +3 and cools the seat if you go - 1,-2 or -3.

    image
  • for the first time this year. It bothers me to see a brand I admire so much being managed so badly.

    'German publication Automobilwoche reported BMW global sales have overtaken Mercedes-Benz. Mercedes managers ...destroyed their bullet-proof reputation for quality and prestige overnight'

    http://www.autoextremist.com/page6.shtml
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 31,103
    Overnight? No.. it took them about 15 years... :surprise:

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  • Do image problems date that far back?

    IMO Mercedes reputation was sterling in the eyes of the general public until the last 5-6 years.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    IMO Mercedes reputation was sterling in the eyes of the general public until the last 5-6 years.

    Well actually in the eyes of the "general public" their reputation is still sterling. Only the people who keep up with cars and visit internet mesg boards know about all this behind the scenes stuff, well them and any previous Mercedes owner that got burned. If the image was shot as much as some would like you to believe here they wouldn't be increasing in sales worldwide.

    M
This discussion has been closed.