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High-End European Luxury Sedans

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Comments

  • paldipaldi Posts: 210
    Prices vary depending upon motivation of the seller. If a set of "take-offs" from a new Bentley GT is what you are looking for, the price of the set of 4 wheels & tires can be from $1,500 to nearly $4,000.

    I believe the wheels are about $600 each from Bentley including the logo center caps, plus $75.00 for each TPMS sensor. The 275 40 19 Pirelli PZero tires go for about $250 - $300 each. Then you need to pay for balancing and mounting. Michelin Pilots cost a bit more.
  • vchiuvchiu Posts: 565
    It may be interesting to look how the high-end big three are seen at home :

    http://www.autobild.de/test/neuwagen/artikel.php?artikel_id=10076

    "Meeting of the German Deluxe Cruisers" (Sorry, nor German nor English are my native tongue)

    Those who can't read German may try babelfish web page translation.

    In short, the new S500 Takes the lead, if financial issues are not being considered. Otherwise, the A8 takes the Overall lead.
    The BMW, although the most performant, comes third. Low resale value + expensive cost of repair being the key issues

    Very interesting article. They should have added the XJ8 4.2. This car worths much more
  • anthonypanthonyp Posts: 1,857
    I do not know from experience about the new S, but I can recomend the A8 with the sports suspension, as a great driving and so far ownership experience...I think everyone wants more horsepower on paper, but the engine and handling and feel leave nothing to be desired Tony
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    image

    Nice. I wish I knew what they were saying.

    M
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    They’re saying…

    "Vee tvist a nut here, vee tvist a bolt zere, und zen suh cars verk better."
  • vchiuvchiu Posts: 565
    Ok, Here is home made the summary translation

    This is exclusive for Edmunds.com Forum. I should get a free subscription


    Theme Audi BMW Mercedes max
    Room/ flexibility 25 27 29 40
    Boot space/ loading ability 27 21 22 30
    Seat and seating position 29 28 30 30
    Space feeling and round vision 16 17 19 20
    Equipment/ease of use 23 18 25 30
    Safety equipment 33 34 34 30
    Material quality 19 18 18 20
    Body overall 172 163 177 200
    Ranking 2 3 1

    Audi :
    smaller head clearance, good loading ability, good towing ability, limited rear vision, no tire pressure gauge, high quality.
    BMW
    Tidy available space, small additional load, moderate all-round visibility, partly complicated operation, simple comfort equipment
    Merc
    Best space, big boot, very small loading capacity, good use, higher level comfort equipment, good quality impression.

    Performances 36 39 38 40
    road handling 29 27 28 30
    Noise level 7 9 10 10
    Ride comfort 27 29 29 30
    Gearbox 19 18 20 20
    Steering/ radius 19 18 18 20
    Engine quality 19 18 19 20
    Brakes 23 25 25 30
    Powertrain / suspension 179 183 187 200
    Ranking 3 2 1

    Audi :
    Secure Handling, the noisiest, not the best comfort, steering weel with good feeling, reactive engine, excellent auto gearbox.
    BMW :
    best road handling, good suspension, Reference brakes , occasionally hectic transmission, Steering with good feedback.
    Merc :
    Fantastic brakes, Sovereign performances, secure handling, Good suspension and ride confort despite 19 inch tires.
    Tax/insurance 19 13 13 20
    Gas mileage/ environment 18 18 20 30
    Guarantee 12 6 13 20
    Care/service 17 17 17 20
    Extra service quality 6 6 5 10
    Cost of ownership 72 60 68 100
    Ranking 1 3 2

    Audi:
    Often thirsty, need Super plus, economical repair costs, good Guarantee.
    BMW :
    Minimalist guarantee, requires Super plus, Expensive repairs.
    Merc :
    limited thirst, best Guarantee, expensive Options
    TEST RESULTS 423 406 432 500
    Ranking 2 3 1
    AUDI :
    Such a big ship is missing passenger space. Could be more quieter and offer more MpG.
    BMW :
    quick, nimble and secure is the municher. But the TCO/Repair costs are way too high. It costs many points. MErc :
    The S-Klasse secures this quality chapter. There aren't any weak spot. The new reference has a name : MERCEDES.

    Base price 48 39 20 80
    Reselling price 17 12 19 20
    Overall results 488 457 471 600
    Ranking 1 3 2

    Audi :
    The A8 is not the quickest deluxe cruiser. But it offers an All-included pack of Luxe and Technique. For the cheapset price (of the 3). That's enough for the victory
    BMW :
    When cruising one does not want to live with place problems, a luggage limitation and bad service. The BMW just fares for 3rd.
    MERC :
    The new S-Class can do everything - and that particularly well. Dream cruises are however expensive. Therefore the Daimler ship runs in only as the second.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Thanks for making is more-clear (dubya-speak) for me...lol.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Thanks!

    It is always interesting to see what the European press rates cars on. Some of that criteria is never mentioned in the U.S. press.

    Mercedes has definitely turned the corner regarding build quality as all of their recent releases (CLS,S,SLK) have gotten praise for their build. All that is except the made in the U.S. M-Class, which has improved, but is still behind the competition in this area.

    M
  • vchiuvchiu Posts: 565
    The French Citroen C6 probably won't be imported in the US, but check out this UK test report

    http://www.channel4.com/4car/road-tests/C/citroen/c6-05-/index.html

    "There are plenty of motorists who don't want a super-taut Germanic driving machine - and the C6 is targeted directly at them".

    This is the French way to see the high-end. what will designman think about this one?
  • If in the U.S. market, it would probably get murdered by the Toyota Avalon. The C6 has a design that could only come from France :D

    Those tail lights... :P
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Ask and you shall receive. You are hereby awarded a free LIFETIME subscription. Congratulations!!
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Looks like some high-school kid modded a Lexus GS. All it needs is chrome spinners and neon.

    ;-)
  • paldipaldi Posts: 210
    I much prefer the cleaner look of the German sedans especially Audi A8 and Phaeton.

    Image hosted by Photobucket.com
  • vchiuvchiu Posts: 565
    For me, the main problem of the Citroen C6 lies in the poor engine offer. The diesel is fair, but the gasoline 208HP V6 3.0 is weak. The car is much heavier than an XJ8.
    No turbo nor V8 makes the car perform slightly better than an entry level BMW 520i.

    Top price nearly 60K USD, that hurts...
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    My apologies to people with grille aversions, but this car is awesome, of course IMO.

    image

    image
    Say ahhh..

    image
    Daily Training

    image

    image
    Ready for takeoff!

    image

    M
  • anthonypanthonyp Posts: 1,857
    The sport suspension for me is just right, and the a8 has worked fully right out the box....At first the windsheild wipers made a sqeeky noise as the wiped, and I thought I need new blades, but for some reason it stopped on its own..The blue tooth has worked as soon as it was mated properly, and the navigation is the best for me out of all of them for the last ten years or so....I still think a person needs to keep in mind where they are going, or the guidance can take you an around about way... The short wheelbase is also just fine...Tony
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Glad to hear you enjoying your A8!

    M
  • garyh1garyh1 Posts: 386
    My apologies to people with grille aversions, but this car is awesome, of course IMO.

    I agree Merc, I like everything about the car except that grille. Or I should say, the way that grille looks with reference to the rest of the car. Designman, I don't recall if I ever saw your opinion of the grille. Am I wrong, or does it just not go with any other design element of the car? Is there anything else that gives any cues to the grille's vertical elongation? At least on the Chrysler 300, the grille shape better fits with the other design elements (even if it is not exactly my taste). Does the strip across the Audi's grille even look like it directly syncs with the bumper to either side of it?

    While we're on the subject of front ends, what do you think of the new RR's? Its grille is SO starkly square; but at least the rest of the car has a lot of squared off elements. But it's just too boxy for my eye. Not that RR has to worry about losing my sale due solely to its styling....
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Gary, here is a discussion that Merc and I had in the LPS thread on the S8 grille.

    Designman:
    Merc, that S8 grille looks like a sewer grid. People will be inclined to throw candy wrappers and cigarette butts into it. And it has the net effect of some fat ol’ plumber walking around with a big square patch cut out of the seat of his pants. Help me out, am I missing something?

    Merc1:
    Well just picture me jumping up and down on a table in disagreement. I think you have to look at the whole car to appreciate the grille, not just the grille itself, IMO. It fits on the A8 and A4 better than the A6, IMO of course.

    Am I wrong, or does it just not go with any other design element of the car? Is there anything else that gives any cues to the grille's vertical elongation?

    Does the strip across the Audi's grille even look like it directly syncs with the bumper to either side of it?


    I’m not really inclined to analyze it. In my opinion it just sucks, plain and simple. It’s like someone shaving only one side of his head to get attention. Lexusguy presented the only logic I can figure that makes any sense, curious as it is, that the motif was the old Auto Union grilles.

    At least on the Chrysler 300, the grille shape better fits with the other design elements (even if it is not exactly my taste).

    It does? That thing is a Neanderthal meat mallot IMO.

    While we're on the subject of front ends, what do you think of the new RR's?

    I like it, but not in the sense that I like other cars. To me, Rolls is a monolith, its elements and sheer being transcend time. That grille is the Parthenon. How can you look at the Parthenon and say you don’t like it? It rises above fashion so it does not really lend itself to taste, I think. If they try to fashion it, I believe it will fall into the muck. The car is not really a vehicle, it’s a venue. It’s the Plaza Hotel.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Merc1:
    Well just picture me jumping up and down on a table in disagreement. I think you have to look at the whole car to appreciate the grille, not just the grille itself, IMO. It fits on the A8 and A4 better than the A6, IMO of course.


    Hey I've done that before! I agree that you have to look at the whole car, which is what I do. I agree about it fitting better on the A4 and A8 than it does on the A6, but I like the way it looks on all three of course.

    M
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Whuh?? You're agreeing with yourself? Either you read that wrong or I could have presented the dialogue better.
  • garyh1garyh1 Posts: 386
    Whuh?? You're agreeing with yourself? Either you read that wrong or I could have presented the dialogue better.

    I love it! Merc finally found someone he could agree with completely 100% of the time - himself! ROFL :D

    Actually, consistency is not such a bad thing. Some of the rest of us have been known to change our opinions somewhere between the beginning and end of a single post! ;)
  • garyh1garyh1 Posts: 386
    To me, Rolls is a monolith, its elements and sheer being transcend time. That grille is the Parthenon. How can you look at the Parthenon and say you don't like it? It rises above fashion so it does not really lend itself to taste, I think. If they try to fashion it, I believe it will fall into the muck. The car is not really a vehicle, it’s a venue. It’s the Plaza Hotel.

    Ah, the Plaza. It hits my heartstrings the same way. Just seeing it elicits the best feelings of NYC for me. Of course, then you go around a corner and get stuck in a smelly, dirty, congested side street and the other side of Manhattan hits you. Anyway, back to cars...

    I agree that the Rolls is monolithic, but unlike the Parthenon, it gets modified over time by other than the elements. It does need to be a standup car, not low slung (I seem to recall they tried to do this once with the convertible and it looked silly to me). But this new version is just too too squared off for me. Instead of subtly classic and simple, it comes off as IN YOUR FACE square. In that sense it almost reminds me of the 300. The RR can and should say "I don't need to swoop to be fashionable", but it doesn't need to say "I am so staid that I don't care if you cut yourself on my sharp edges".

    Sorry for all the design similes, but you got me going with that Plaza allusion. I guess I just won't be pulling up in front of it with my 2006 RR.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Whuh?? You're agreeing with yourself? Either you read that wrong or I could have presented the dialogue better.

    Maybe I read it wrong I guess???? I was saying that I've jumped up on down on a table in disgreement with some of the things you've said about styling on certain cars before. I think thats what I meant. :confuse:

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Some interesting pics from a link in my monthly email from Maserati.

    image

    image

    image

    I was somewhat delighted to read this about the Quattroporte's sales:

    Maserati's Quattroporte is dominating sales of luxury sport sedans over $100,000 despite and in part because of its limited production. American consumers are showing they appreciate Quattroporte's unique balance of performance, style and cachet by more than 3:1 over BMW's 760i and 760Li combined.

    The segment in which the Quattroporte will win the 2005 sales race includes the BMW 750iL, 760i, and 760Li, the Bentley Flying Spur, and the Mercedes S55, S65 and S600. Those who have driven them all will attest that, while the Quattroporte shares a price segment with the others, it stands alone on the road. Source

    I wouldn't doubt the "on-the-road" observation from a sport sedan point of view compared with those cars. I would love to see the sales numbers for each though. In that last paragraph they must mean that the Maser is going to outsell the 760i and 760Li together, and the 750Li seperately as a single model. Is the Quattroporte really going to outsell the 750Li? The Mercedes S55/S65 and Bentley are all more powerful, but heavier, a lot heavier in the case of the Bentley Flying Brick. The BMW 760i Sport is a sporty car, but I would imagine that not even it has the reflexes and charisma of the Maserati. Too bad there is no "M7". None of these have a SMG type gearbox and only the Bentley can compete with the Maser on a "custom feel" point of view when it comes to the interior, but even then some of its VW switchgear pokes through. Interesting bunch of cars though, not a boring one in the bunch. I wonder Maserati thinks of the Jaguar XJ Super V8 P. Oh, there is one company that could make a sedan to match the Maser in every way, but they don't make one at the moment, Aston-Martin.

    Interesting they don't consider the M5 or CLS55 competitors. Alrightly then lets see a comparo between the 760i Sport, S55 AMG, XJ Super V8 Portfolio, and Quattroporte then, one of you U.S. magazines!

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Oops I read that wrong. I didn't see that you were merely presenting our previous conversation. :confuse:

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I forgot, "Gorgeous" is Jaguar's line isn't it?

    image

    image

    Does it apply? You be the judge.

    M
  • anthonypanthonyp Posts: 1,857
    The Masseratti(sp) is a great looking car, but apparently there are some nusances to be worked out, according to some owners...I wonder how the sales of it compare to the Audi w12....Tony
  • I think the CLS55 is an obvious ommission from the Maser competitor list... has a much more distinct and custom-coach feel than the more "mainstream" competitors. Believe the M5 leans so much more toward the sport side of the equation, than it won't be cross-shopped (as much) against the Maser like the stated competitors + the CLS55!
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Well unless something has changed, the A8 W12 is a 150-200 unit-per-year car here in the U.S. I've only seen one since it came out.

    M
This discussion has been closed.