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High-End European Luxury Sedans

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Comments

  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Actually I think the M5 is a direct competitor to the Quattroporte also because they both have SMG-style trannies and both are thoroughbred sports sedans that make no apologies.

    It is quite easy to beat the cars Maserati mentioned on dynamics and sheer driving excitement, but it is a lot harder to do that to the CLS55 and especially the M5.

    Would have seemed hard to believe a few years ago, but the Cadillac STS-V actually competes in this league. Audi has an interesting pair of competitors too for the Quattroporte, the already announced S8 and upcoming S6/RS6.

    What a wonderful time to be a high-end sports sedan buyer!

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    S8 In Action

    Warning: It is in German, but the engine sounds aren't. The test driver's skill is pretty awesome too.

    M
  • Well, I agree to a point... still believe the M5 is a much more finely tuned performance machine, where the Maser makes more of a fashion statement to go with a still-superb performance capability. Saw 2 new M5's at my dealer recently and was very impressed - was not able to drive them, though.

    The Caddy does "compete", but has some ground to cover to reach 1st place. Not the biggest fan of the STS design, but would still take one in a NY minute. Kudo's to Caddy for getting in the game in a big way...
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    The M5 may very well be, but I won't likely get the chance to drive either so....I'll have to take your word on this one.

    Oh I agree about the STS-V. Automobile says it can't compete with the Germans, and MT put the CLS55 over the STS-V, but C&D put the STS-V over the CLS55, mainly because of the price and better back seat.

    M
  • garyh1garyh1 Posts: 386
    Re: Maybach 62

    Wow. Leaves me almost speechless. Last time I saw that much wood and leather was in the Oak Room at the Plaza.

    Just had a funny thought: Wouldn't it be a downer if you had to drive your Maybach 62 on the chauffeur's day off, and everybody who saw you would think that you were just the chauffeur? Of course, that should never happen because you would have your fleet of cars to choose from on the chauffeur's day off, from your Ferrari to your 760.

    Which raises the question: What other cars does the typical Maybach 62 owner own? Assume a husband, wife, and two teenage kids - one boy and one girl. What's in the garage? I'll start:

    Husband: BMW 760Li, Bentley Conti GT, Ferrari Superamerica
    Wife: MB S600, MB E500 wagon (for shopping) or maybe a Lincoln Navigator?
    Son: BMW X5
    Daughter: MB CLK500 (maybe BMW Z4?)
  • paldipaldi Posts: 210
    Lets not forget the company limo...
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  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Well when someone can afford a 360K car there is no telling what else they have in their garage(s).

    The only Maybach I even remotely would want is the 57S.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Nice! I wonder how many of those there are in the world.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Not a luxury car, but definitely European and definitely High-End.

    Pagani Zonda F

    A pity this thing isn't sold here, yet.

    M
  • anthonypanthonyp Posts: 1,857
    That was fffffffffffffffun....Tony
  • I think you've nailed it. But a guy interested in cars enough to have a Maybach would probably have some older stuff too. Like maybe a Mini, an old Jag E type or even an 190SL. A couple with the ability to drive a Mayback would also have several country homes with garages there to fill. So, what would they have at their ski home out West? An LR (of course) but also a pickup for just hacking around? What would the garage attached to their Nantucket house hold? Maybe a Defender 90 or a Jeep Grand Wagoneer, circa 1987?
  • paldipaldi Posts: 210
    Waiting for propper VW logo wheel caps. Everything fits!

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    This is how it looked before - with 18" wheels and smaller tires.
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    As they say, wheels often make the car.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Again we have the width problem - please be sure your pictures are no wider than 500 pixels. Thanks.
  • bdr127bdr127 Posts: 950
    Yuck, I hate the rear-end on that MB... My two cents...
  • paldipaldi Posts: 210
    I resised the photos and took a few more... The wheels are 19x9 inch Bentley Contintal GT wheels sporting 275 40 19 Pirelli PZero Ross tires."> :-)

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  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Great, thanks so much! :)
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
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    The New S6

    In short: Save V10 from the S8, but with 420hp, down 30hp from the S8. Both sedan and Avant (wagon) bodystyles.

    M
  • paldipaldi Posts: 210
    They got a V10 to fit? Do you have any under hood photos?
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Yep it fits. This is a pretty good pic of the engine bay here. Another pic.

    M
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Good pic. Looking at the way that engine "fits", I'd have to say "Access denied".
  • bdr127bdr127 Posts: 950
    It is amazing they're able to fit that thing in... Holy crap!

    Anyone know what the front/rear weight ratio is? You gotta believe the car's really front-end-heavy...
  • First I really love this car (from reading the linked material) -- the content other than the drive train is also impressive.

    The question pertaining to nose heaviness stands, IMHO, as a key point.

    I know that Audi is, at the moment, eschewing bi-turbo applications going for the "no substitute for displacement" attitude.

    But, my read about the FSI engines (e.g., the 2.0T and the 3.2) leads me to wonder what could be brought to market (speaking weight wise) in terms of performance if the "T" treatment from the 2.0 engine were to be applied to the 3.2FSI engine.

    We go to a 450 pound V10 to achieve some impressive accelerative numbers and just having a V10 would be "instant tang!" to be sure. But, as noted the new S6 despite all its wonderfulness must WANT to understeer so badly it can taste it.

    Why not put the 2.7T Sline A6 turbo treatment on the 3.2 (which certainly would mean overall improvements that have happened since that engine underwent the turbo meister's touch)?

    My issue is there seems to be a missed opportunity to have a version of the A6, heck call it an AS6, with 295HP (to keep the number low enough to not threaten the 4.2) and 300+ ft pounds of torque from 1850 RPM on. . . .

    Put the high zoot suspension, wheels, brakes and up tuned tiptronic on it -- the fancier electronics, etc. And price it between the current models or just bag the 3.2 normally aspirated engine all together?

    I'd like to have a smidge more performance (at least 10% more HP and 20% more torque.) I like to have some "factory" bits that could be ordered to raise both the performance and or sizzle content AT MY OPTION.

    My "regret" with my A6 3.2 at $53,286 MSRP? "If I only had a brain. . .," I would have spent another $250 for the sport suspension since I already sprung (no pun intended) for the $1,000 18" wheel option.

    I'd love to be able to order the 19" S6 wheels as an option, perhaps a sport suspension without thousands of dollars worth of appearance items (although I do like the SLine's looks.)

    On the other hand, perhaps the 4.2 has been somehow made far less thirsty than my LAST 3 Audi 4.2's which certainly were the inspiration for Ross Perot's phrase "giant sucking sound" (as in gas sucking.) The 3.2, by contrast is adequately powered, sounds nearly like a V8 and sips gas -- a little goose in HP and torque and the availability of some stand alone sport options would punch up sales, at least here in River City.

    Why?

    Although I did appreciate and love my Audi 4.2 equipped cars (1 A8 and 2 A6's), I have become less concerned with bragging rights ("mine's got a V10) than I used to be. And, more to the point, I really miss my allroad's 2.7T engine mated to a 6spd manual.

    That unmodified engine (on the BPV's were non stock) had locomotive torque, fantastic acceleration and despite being thirstier than I would have liked, was less thirsty than the V8 and performed within .1 second.

    C5 A6's quickest model? The 2.7T Sline or 6spd manual (bye bye V8.)

    I am often wrong here, out of step with the market, but a V10 equipped A6 almost seems like the answer to a question no one asked. After all this isn't even the direct successor to the RS6, this is "just" an S6 for pity's sake.

    OK, OK, if not a 3.2T, why not at least offer a goosed up version of the A6 C6 4.2 -- goosed beyond being called SLine, which, although pretty and although it does contain some handling performance improvement bits, is really a heavily appearance based upgrade rather than a performance biased upgrade.

    Of course I read the new Automobile magazine review of the S8 and although it was generally quite positive, it also seemed to indicate that the performance, while impressive, was not "awe inspiring" as they had hoped.

    I'm probably the one who needs my head screwed on correctly, but this new S6 really seems like such a limited market product (at a premium but not a super premium price.)

    Why not come out with an AS6 based on the 3.2 powerplant that has a base price of $49,900, put a little bit of energy and money into advertising and stand back.

    It is hard for me to buy that the new V8 Q7 in totally stock form can be quite posh and be offered for under $50,000 but there is no "step" up A6 unless one is willing to make the step up a somewhat impressive 5 figure number to the left of the decimal point. :confuse:

    Clearly this is rocket surgery.
  • vchiuvchiu Posts: 565
  • paldipaldi Posts: 210
    That's very nice. If I could get a Phaeton with an Audi 4.2 V8 from the turbocharged S4 I'd be in nirvana.

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  • Karen_CMKaren_CM Posts: 5,023
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  • cashcarcashcar Posts: 15
    You might like the Phaeton W12, normally aspirated. I have the factory USA auto show car with this engine and in the 4 seater configuration. It is utterly outstanding in every respect. Audio magazines have rated the Harold Levinson system in it the very best car sound
    in a production car sold in America. Unfortunately the W12 will probably not be available in the "Phaeton II", a 5 door fastback with totally different styling which will replace the
    Phaeton I after 2007. One can only surmise it will have a few less amenities and come in above the Passat closer to A6 territory rather compete with the A8 as did the earler Phaeton.
    Some used W12 VW's may be available at good prices.
  • cashcarcashcar Posts: 15
    paldi

    British car mags agree with you in that they refer to the new GT and Flying Spur as "a Phaeton in a hand made suit".
  • v_dv_d Posts: 89
    Phaeton is a cheaper Flying Spur, if you look at them both, you'll notice that they look 99% the same! :)
This discussion has been closed.