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High-End European Luxury Sedans

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Comments

  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Whuh?? You're agreeing with yourself? Either you read that wrong or I could have presented the dialogue better.
  • garyh1garyh1 Posts: 386
    Whuh?? You're agreeing with yourself? Either you read that wrong or I could have presented the dialogue better.

    I love it! Merc finally found someone he could agree with completely 100% of the time - himself! ROFL :D

    Actually, consistency is not such a bad thing. Some of the rest of us have been known to change our opinions somewhere between the beginning and end of a single post! ;)
  • garyh1garyh1 Posts: 386
    To me, Rolls is a monolith, its elements and sheer being transcend time. That grille is the Parthenon. How can you look at the Parthenon and say you don't like it? It rises above fashion so it does not really lend itself to taste, I think. If they try to fashion it, I believe it will fall into the muck. The car is not really a vehicle, it’s a venue. It’s the Plaza Hotel.

    Ah, the Plaza. It hits my heartstrings the same way. Just seeing it elicits the best feelings of NYC for me. Of course, then you go around a corner and get stuck in a smelly, dirty, congested side street and the other side of Manhattan hits you. Anyway, back to cars...

    I agree that the Rolls is monolithic, but unlike the Parthenon, it gets modified over time by other than the elements. It does need to be a standup car, not low slung (I seem to recall they tried to do this once with the convertible and it looked silly to me). But this new version is just too too squared off for me. Instead of subtly classic and simple, it comes off as IN YOUR FACE square. In that sense it almost reminds me of the 300. The RR can and should say "I don't need to swoop to be fashionable", but it doesn't need to say "I am so staid that I don't care if you cut yourself on my sharp edges".

    Sorry for all the design similes, but you got me going with that Plaza allusion. I guess I just won't be pulling up in front of it with my 2006 RR.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Whuh?? You're agreeing with yourself? Either you read that wrong or I could have presented the dialogue better.

    Maybe I read it wrong I guess???? I was saying that I've jumped up on down on a table in disgreement with some of the things you've said about styling on certain cars before. I think thats what I meant. :confuse:

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Some interesting pics from a link in my monthly email from Maserati.

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    I was somewhat delighted to read this about the Quattroporte's sales:

    Maserati's Quattroporte is dominating sales of luxury sport sedans over $100,000 despite and in part because of its limited production. American consumers are showing they appreciate Quattroporte's unique balance of performance, style and cachet by more than 3:1 over BMW's 760i and 760Li combined.

    The segment in which the Quattroporte will win the 2005 sales race includes the BMW 750iL, 760i, and 760Li, the Bentley Flying Spur, and the Mercedes S55, S65 and S600. Those who have driven them all will attest that, while the Quattroporte shares a price segment with the others, it stands alone on the road. Source

    I wouldn't doubt the "on-the-road" observation from a sport sedan point of view compared with those cars. I would love to see the sales numbers for each though. In that last paragraph they must mean that the Maser is going to outsell the 760i and 760Li together, and the 750Li seperately as a single model. Is the Quattroporte really going to outsell the 750Li? The Mercedes S55/S65 and Bentley are all more powerful, but heavier, a lot heavier in the case of the Bentley Flying Brick. The BMW 760i Sport is a sporty car, but I would imagine that not even it has the reflexes and charisma of the Maserati. Too bad there is no "M7". None of these have a SMG type gearbox and only the Bentley can compete with the Maser on a "custom feel" point of view when it comes to the interior, but even then some of its VW switchgear pokes through. Interesting bunch of cars though, not a boring one in the bunch. I wonder Maserati thinks of the Jaguar XJ Super V8 P. Oh, there is one company that could make a sedan to match the Maser in every way, but they don't make one at the moment, Aston-Martin.

    Interesting they don't consider the M5 or CLS55 competitors. Alrightly then lets see a comparo between the 760i Sport, S55 AMG, XJ Super V8 Portfolio, and Quattroporte then, one of you U.S. magazines!

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Oops I read that wrong. I didn't see that you were merely presenting our previous conversation. :confuse:

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I forgot, "Gorgeous" is Jaguar's line isn't it?

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    Does it apply? You be the judge.

    M
  • anthonypanthonyp Posts: 1,857
    The Masseratti(sp) is a great looking car, but apparently there are some nusances to be worked out, according to some owners...I wonder how the sales of it compare to the Audi w12....Tony
  • I think the CLS55 is an obvious ommission from the Maser competitor list... has a much more distinct and custom-coach feel than the more "mainstream" competitors. Believe the M5 leans so much more toward the sport side of the equation, than it won't be cross-shopped (as much) against the Maser like the stated competitors + the CLS55!
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Well unless something has changed, the A8 W12 is a 150-200 unit-per-year car here in the U.S. I've only seen one since it came out.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Actually I think the M5 is a direct competitor to the Quattroporte also because they both have SMG-style trannies and both are thoroughbred sports sedans that make no apologies.

    It is quite easy to beat the cars Maserati mentioned on dynamics and sheer driving excitement, but it is a lot harder to do that to the CLS55 and especially the M5.

    Would have seemed hard to believe a few years ago, but the Cadillac STS-V actually competes in this league. Audi has an interesting pair of competitors too for the Quattroporte, the already announced S8 and upcoming S6/RS6.

    What a wonderful time to be a high-end sports sedan buyer!

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    S8 In Action

    Warning: It is in German, but the engine sounds aren't. The test driver's skill is pretty awesome too.

    M
  • Well, I agree to a point... still believe the M5 is a much more finely tuned performance machine, where the Maser makes more of a fashion statement to go with a still-superb performance capability. Saw 2 new M5's at my dealer recently and was very impressed - was not able to drive them, though.

    The Caddy does "compete", but has some ground to cover to reach 1st place. Not the biggest fan of the STS design, but would still take one in a NY minute. Kudo's to Caddy for getting in the game in a big way...
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    The M5 may very well be, but I won't likely get the chance to drive either so....I'll have to take your word on this one.

    Oh I agree about the STS-V. Automobile says it can't compete with the Germans, and MT put the CLS55 over the STS-V, but C&D put the STS-V over the CLS55, mainly because of the price and better back seat.

    M
  • garyh1garyh1 Posts: 386
    Re: Maybach 62

    Wow. Leaves me almost speechless. Last time I saw that much wood and leather was in the Oak Room at the Plaza.

    Just had a funny thought: Wouldn't it be a downer if you had to drive your Maybach 62 on the chauffeur's day off, and everybody who saw you would think that you were just the chauffeur? Of course, that should never happen because you would have your fleet of cars to choose from on the chauffeur's day off, from your Ferrari to your 760.

    Which raises the question: What other cars does the typical Maybach 62 owner own? Assume a husband, wife, and two teenage kids - one boy and one girl. What's in the garage? I'll start:

    Husband: BMW 760Li, Bentley Conti GT, Ferrari Superamerica
    Wife: MB S600, MB E500 wagon (for shopping) or maybe a Lincoln Navigator?
    Son: BMW X5
    Daughter: MB CLK500 (maybe BMW Z4?)
  • paldipaldi Posts: 210
    Lets not forget the company limo...
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  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Well when someone can afford a 360K car there is no telling what else they have in their garage(s).

    The only Maybach I even remotely would want is the 57S.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Nice! I wonder how many of those there are in the world.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Not a luxury car, but definitely European and definitely High-End.

    Pagani Zonda F

    A pity this thing isn't sold here, yet.

    M
This discussion has been closed.