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Comments
45 MPH is the maximum electric-only speed for STEALTH mode.
Since it's automatic (no button) and the engine is stopped (zero RPM) just like with EV, that really doesn't matter. The real benefit of EV mode is telling the engine to shut off sooner, which was a big deal with the prior generation but not as much any more.
Highway driving is harder to maintain 50 MPG. Using a short steep uphill on-ramp and trying to get to highway speed quickly to merge into heavy traffic, is doable, but the MPG takes an immediate hit. Long steep inclines and anytime highway speed acceleration is needed while not on a decline, also hit the MPG.
Anytime I can maintain the same speed in city or highway, even on modest inclines, I get great mileage. But as soon as I have to slow drastically, because someone cuts in front or just heavy traffic, accelerating back up to cruising speed really eats into the MPG.
I'm still on my first tank of gas. Hopefully as the Prius gets broken in, and I get better at adapting to driving a Prius, my mileage will improve and it will be easier to achieve 50 MPG or better!
Do you three or anyone else here know the answers to the following :
I cant achieve the 52 MPG EPA figures. I am get most the time MPG figures in the 40s. I am following the rules of fuel efficient drivng but that's just not working. Maybe there is a rule I dont know? Brake slowly, accelerate slowly, keep speed at constant levels, use "B" going downhills, tires are a bit overinflated...and still I am just not getting it. :confuse:
Anyways I know I am doing something wrong or maybe I am doing everything right but Toronto traffic disallows me from reaching my potential?
Does anybody maximize their mileage by driving on EV mode?
In my particular case with my 2010 Prius the fast battery discharge on EV mode negatively affects my mileage to the point where I find Eco mode as being the only mode that maximizes my mileage.
That harms MPG. By engaging engine-braking, you are taking away from the regenerating opportunities. Basically, the only time you should ever use it is when driving down a mountain and you prevent the brakes from overheating.
>>accelerate slowly
That can be counter-productive. If you aren't allowing the Eco-Meter to rise into the RED zone, you are probably causing lower MPG when accelerating. Seeing the power rise to that level isn't bad for efficiency. The point of the meter is to allow you to KEEP IT BRIEF.
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That harms MPG. By engaging engine-braking, you are taking away from the regenerating opportunities. Basically, the only time you should ever use it is when driving down a mountain and you prevent the brakes from overheating.
Not exactly how it harms MPG unless you want to gain speed so that you can go further once you start uphill before you need to apply the throttle.
I never used it but after reading comments over on PC I tried it. It appears that in "B" mode you do get regeneration (I don't think my TCH reacted like that). You also get regeneration from the cruise control which does a real good job of holding speed down steep grades, unlike my TCH which would cause me to use my brakes to stay reasonably close to the speed limit.
I will definitely start driving the car more normally. I hardly ever hit the PWR red zone on my eco-meter and that can explain why.
THe "B" mode seems to work for me as long as there is no uphill after a downhill otherwise using "B mode" slows down the car to the point where I have to re-accelerate in order to climb another slope.
sc
I don't hypermile but I do use a few of the tricks learned to maximize milage while driving "normal". I consistantly beat my wife's milage by about 10% (which is 4 to 5 mpg). However the hypermilers will beat me by 15 to 20%. I don't want to work at it that hard, but there are some gains to be had by learning how the system works. Then again, just driving "normal" will still give good results as compared to what you previously drove.
YEAR 1 MPG = 56.8 4.14 69.0
YEAR 2 MPG = 62.8 3.75 76.3
YEAR 3 MPG = 66.3 3.55 80.5
LMPG = 60.9 3.86 74.0
My best tank to-date 70.1 US MPG have pictures and had 2 tanks over 69. I'm on a string of 24 tanks of >60 US MPG with the first one being Feb'09 middle of the coldest part of Canadian winter and I don't use an EBH.
Total miles driven 40,300 ...and if it was all going downhill (per scottc3) I would be where now??? Redicoulous!!!
dewey, perhaps you're not doing anything wrong. You did demonstrate you can get great mileage on one trip - would like more details about that trip. Also asked you before for your driving profile. Distance / time travelled to work ...etc. Here is what I believe based on the limited info you provided so far:
From another post I believe you leave somewhere around Eglinton and Avenue Rd area. You also said you drive downtown. If that is the case that is probably too short of a drive to achieve great MPG. What is the distance and time it takes you to make this daily trip (home - work)? How many 5 minute bars you have on your screen at the end of the trip.
Are you interested in meeting and I can go over a few things with you and follow it with a test drive?
Sincerely,
Gabe
P.S. I can show you and have you verify my MPG log sheets for scottc3 who implies that people like me are "liars"
EV (electric only, must be in Eco Mode and going slow)
Eco Mode
Power Mode
Right now I don't use any of the button, just using normal mode? The EV and Eco modes seem to make the accelerator less responsive, I haven't tried power mode.
My lease is up and I need to purchase a car within the next 7 days.
My options are Camry LE 4-cyl ($19,900+TTL, 0% for 60 months) and Toyota Prius II($23,200, 7% for 60 months). I'm putting 0% down.
Camry seems to be the right choice but I'm driving 2500 miles a month. With the gas price of $3.25, will be saving more money by buying the Prius?
Total payments over 60 months
Camry $19900
Prius.. $27600
Now fuel @ 2500 mi / mo over 60 months; 150,000 miles
Camry @ 26 mpg = 5770 gal used x $3.25 / gal = $18752
Prius @ 50 mpg = 3000 gal used x $3.25 / gal = $9750
Vehicle + Fuel
Camry : $19900 + $18750 = $38650
Prius.. : $27600 + $9750 = $37350
Ooops the entire vehicle savings have been used up in fuel burned.
Then there's the question of resale value which is almost never discussed.
5 y.o. Camry LE w/ 150,000 miles is 'worth' about $3500 in trade
5 y.o. Prius base w/ 150,000 miles is 'worth' about $5000 in trade
Your net cost if you were to dispose of the vehicles after 60 months and 150K miles would be
Camry : $38650 - $3500 = $35150
Prius.. : $37350 - $5000 = $32350
This assumes that over the next 5 yrs ( 2015 ) that the price of fuel only averages $3.25 a gallon which is not entirely unreasonable.
All-in-all it's close to a wash. Choose which vehicle pleases you better.
PS: Geopolitical question. Do you want to give your $9000 to Big Oil and help support OPEC or would you rather give it to Toyota ( $3300 ) and whichever lender you choose ( $4300 ). Me? I'd go with Toyota and my local credit union over Big OIl and OPEC....and save $2800 to boot.
I was just using his given numbers.
184,852 MILES total
3,924.4 GALLONS total
47.1 MPG overall
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Thanks for the information. I am getting better mileage by picking routes that are more flat or that are downward sloped verus upwards.
I salute you for your great mileage. I am not there yet but right now I am enjoying my 2010 Prius with fuel costs that are equivalent to 24 perecent of what I spent on my 2007 BMW 335i. Also paying for non-premium gasoline versus premium gasoline with my BMW also reduces costs.
Funny thing is I am having as much fun driving my Prius as I did with a BMW 335i. Both cars involve different mind sets and I feel priviledged in having both those mind-sets. One big bonus: No speeding tickets. My BMW 335i made me drive like a speed demon and now with my Prius that demon has become exorcised. Now I dont feel so stressed out while driving. I am just enjoying the scenery and the dashboard trip/MPG displays
Nice to know you are a fellow Torontorian. Thanks for your offer. If I do need further information from you I will keep you in mind.
Take care
not so loud the folks at the VW GTI versus Prius forum may hear you.
122,000 miles on a 2003 Jetta TDI , the mpg is app 50 mpg. It is/has been driven in perpetual "italian" tune mode.
Actually it is not bad since the European version is 1. set up for more power 2. 6 spd manual vs 5 speed manual 3. 51.12 mpg US converted vs 50 mpg, which is what I get
The truth is I wish I had the European version. Hopefully for obvious reasons, I think the mpg would be closer to 52/53 mpg converted but that is conjecture on my part.
I drive 95 percent in the city most of it congested city driving. With your TDI I would get at most 30MPG and that is assuming I am lucky. I know this as a fact since my cousin lives and works in the city and is not too pleased with his 2005 VW Jetta TDI mileage just as I am not too pleased with my MB300 diesel mileage. If I drove significantly more on the highway my views on diesel would be different
I guess you work and live by a highway and your non-highway driving consists of empty roads. That is an ideal not a reality at least for me.
Anyways interesting topic. But wrong forum for this debate.
But it's nice to know Ruking1 that you have such a keen interest in the Prius. I knew you would come around and see the light. When are you trading in your VW TDI for a Prius
If you do 95% of your driving in the city, (or my perceptions of "city", I have driven in Wash D.C., NYC, Philly, Chicago, SF, LA, Boston, Portland, Seattle, Vancouver, BC., Quebec, Las Vegas, Phoenix, Dallas, San Antonio, etc) then it is totally amazing how the systems have disallowed EV or plug in electric cars and for so long. At the very least, you (we) should have been able to order a (lack of a better word) city shut down idle function, option.
So for example, while diesels can be and are adapted/adopted for intense stop and go and idling, it has never been its forte. So on a practical selection level, do you select a great highway car that can do stop and go/city commutes or do you select one that was designed for city stop and go/commutes and can do highways adequately. Mine has been freeway commutes (with rolling parking lot realities) and road car.
So a real world question: In your 95% city driving, what do you get (mpg) on your hybrid?
Since the 2010 Prius does great for both, that question is quite misleading.
That's the whole point of a FULL hybrid. And the newest generation clearly demonstrates its ability to adapt well to a variety of conditions.
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But that won't change reality.
Show me a diesel (non-hybrid) that consistently delivers 50 MPG in a variety of driving conditions.
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It doesn't change reality.
I have posted in other diesel threads, but then you already know that. Since this is a real world Prius mpg forum, you know where the diesel threads are.
54.1 MPG is my average as of 6,840 summer miles with my 2010 Prius.
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I would surmise 56-59 mpg in the TDI if I drove like you.
My driving is at the speed limit, with the flow of traffic. The daily commute starts with a cruise at 70 MPH, then near the end slows down to 45 MPH.
I don't do anything special. In fact, I often make hypermilers upset by promoting the motto of: JUST DRIVE IT.
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It would be more like 60-62 mpg.
However like you, I subscribe more to the "drive more worry less" philosophy. So I drive in an almost perpetual "italian tune mode" for a mere 50 mpg.
Before you get bummed for spending so much on a car that creates more pollution to create than a Hummer,( battery manufacture and disposal is an environmental disaster as u should know.) don't fret. Their only available in Europe at this time.
218,000 miles
average 42MPG cost of car 12,500 new
The Geo( Suzuki) metro was getting low 50's MPG back in 1991 on a gas engine. Two cars not polluting the environment from dirty nickel batteries.
50 mpg highway (70mph with cruise control)
38 mpg city (normal driving and acceleration)
I will do a manual calculation at next fill-up.
There is no way you could attain a combined rating of 50+ mpg in a TDI factoring in City and Highway driving. The TDI's take a severe beating in fuel economy when forced to drive in non-highway situations.
The Prius has no such limitation. It gets equally excellent fuel economy in the City and the Highway. No compromises are needed.
It appears it roils you (and others obviously) when something other than a Prius hybrid can get 50 mpg. Truly Prius has not been the only game in town and for a lot of years. Indeed the real tragedy is not "the king of the mountain mentality" but there are not dozens upon dozens of vehicles allowed to hit market that get higher (rather than lower ) mpg. Two to 6 models out of say 540 models is not a great indicator that we are as serious as we SAY we are.
Indeed not that long ago, the cash for clunkers accepted 18/19 mpg Toyota Camry's for the $4,500 rebate or whatever you wish to call it. I guess that got embarrassing being as how that manufacturer bills itself as a "GREEN" oem, so they artificial changed the mpg and disqualified a lot on those grounds.
Preach to the choir in a TDI forum. No one is buying that flim flam here. TDI's cannot get 50 mpg in city driving.
Preaching? Hardly.
You only get 44 mpg in the City in a TDI by pushing it part way ... in Neutral ... with the ignition OFF.
You do yourself a disservice by exagerating. 300 miles is at best anecdotal if the results were even close to being accurate. Preach to the choir.
All the best with your Prius!