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Toyota Prius MPG-Real World Numbers

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  • terry92270terry92270 Posts: 1,247
    Thanks for the fantastic information & links! :)

    I see there has been a good improvement from Generation 1 to Generation 2 Prius in MPG, and that the AC will take about 10 MPG away from you....pretty cheap price not to melt, imo. ;)
  • I bought my '05 in October. Unfortunately my commute is short (2 miles) I do drive a bit through the average day. From Oct. '05 till Aug. '06 I drove about 9500 miles. Filled up 23 times and averaged 42.3 MPG. Winter seemed worst. This summer was hot so lots of AC. Have changed my driving a bit but I didn't buy the thing 'cause I need a hobby. I drive it. I "built" and ordered the car on the web. Got emails and calls from 2 local dealerships. Choose one, Airport Toyota in Knoxville and paid MSRP. No muss no fuss. I've got everything you could get on the car when I bought it. Love the bluetooth. Would like to study the appropriate voice for the nav software. I say chinese food it says, "police station ahead on the right." They have done all oil changes and tire rotation. They pick up and deliver free and for simple stuff like this have been very reasonably priced (as in I couldn't have done it cheaper when you factor in taking somewhere and sitting with it). They picked up on recalls of steering part and ordered it. They didn't tell me though till the part came in. Considering one warning was you could loose ALL control they might have told me. I didn't buy it JUST for mileage but for lower emissions TOO. So if you know that's a lie don't tell me.

    Mike
    Knoxville, TN
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,993
    So if you know that's a lie don't tell me

    Good post and welcome to the Forum. We would never accuse you of prevarication on this forum. We all get along. Keep us posted on your Prius.
  • ck90211ck90211 Posts: 129
    I just picked up 07 4 days ago, and decided to top it off with gas being cheap ($ 2.65/gallon, I am in SoCal). 200 miles, jammed 5 gallons in. I suspect the full tank from dealer was not really full. So this would be the first real tank (that's why I topped it off). According to Consumption Screen I averaged 46 mpg.

    In a few days I am going to pump up the tires with Nitrogen, and I may try to jerry-rig a EV switch, and hopefully I can get the mileage to 50+ consistently. Without it (EV) the engine goes on too often, even with battery full and car going slowly.
  • terry92270terry92270 Posts: 1,247
    Such a switch will void your entire warranty, you know that, right :confuse:

    The engine, computer controlled, making thousands of calculations per second, turns the ICE on exactly when, and runs it just as long, as it should.

    Certainly it is your car, and you can do with it as you wish, but I urge you to consider all the ramifications.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,993
    I urge you to consider all the ramifications.

    Good advice. Dealers are always looking for ways to get out of warranty repairs. Don't give them ammunition. Be happy with your 46 MPG. That is very good. I would imagine you are using the AC and it will require the engine to run more also.
  • shammshamm Posts: 10
    Hey Newbie!
    I like the idea of a switch too, but the others are right, connect a switch = void the warranty!
    And I bet Toyota is not going to give you a switch just because you ask for one. They THINK their computer program is smart enough to adapt to the speed being driven. Unfortunately, I think they are wrong, their on-board computer program is good, but it could be improved a lot! The engine runs entirely too much for me! I have noticed many times that the engine is running on a flat road with the battery mostly charged and the speed below 40. The motor should be maintaining the speed and the battery allowed to power it. But instead, the engine starts...
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    There are a LOT of Prius owners who have installed the EV mode switch kit.

    And I doubt any lawsuit over the switch being installed would result in Toyota winning, because the EV mode switch is

    STANDARD EQUIPMENT FOR ALL PRIUSES EXCEPT NORTH AMERICAN MODELS.

    This factory option is currently not available for buyers in North America although the programming for it is still included in the computers which control the hybrid system. This kit allows you (in just a few minutes) to activate the electric feature of your Prius and drive for short distances. The software already present in the car will automatically restart the engine when the battery needs to be recharged or if you need to accelerate quickly. The electric only feature can be turned on and used up to a speed of around 34 mph at which time it will automatically turn off and the car will operate as usual.

    So my guess is that it would NOT void the warranty if challenged, because Toyota thinks the rest of the world is "smart enough" to use the EV mode button but we dumb North Americans are not? Puh-Leeze.....
  • terry92270terry92270 Posts: 1,247
    Larry,

    The simple solution would be for you to present, here, a letter, or executive name, from Toyota saying what you have above. :P

    There won't be a lawsuit, and it doesn't concern dealers, for they are more than happy to perform warranty repairs. They account for a substantial portion of any dealers bottom line profits. It matters nothing what Toyota does in other countries, except to you, evidently. Toyota will just deny to pay any dealer because of the switch effecting....God only knows.

    Maybe you could put as much effort into finding out why that switch isn't provided in the United States. Something tells me it has nothing to do with judgments about the intelligence of the driving public here, and more to do with a technical need. ;)
  • .. Curley and Moe,

    What does it matter? 4 wheel disc in Europe . EV mode is built into software, just disabled. Ever seem multi-iuser licenses in software, whereby a key disables features not offered or features you don't pay for? Nav not offered in Canada, but DRLs have always been required.

    Business, marketing and requirements decision. Doesn't always make sense and doesn't have to do with intelligence or technical needs.

    Also it you look back through this thread and other Prius threads there are many hacks and add-ons available for the Prius. The hacks are not intrusive and not permanent. Therefore, they can be removed without evidence. Without evidence the car owner can not be proven guilty. Therefore no puntititve or compensatory damages.

    LOL,

    MidCow
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    As far as the topic, real-world MPG numbers, My guess is that someone who does a lot of low-speed 30 MPH and below driving should get the EV mode switch installed to help better utilize the battery and thus increase their MPG.

    The software already knows how to handle it, therefore it cannot damage the system.

    Go for it modders !!! :shades:
  • pathstar1pathstar1 Posts: 1,015
    So let me see if I understand. You want to take Toyota to court because you installed an EV switch to save, what, $500 on gas over the term of the warranty? No wonder lawyers are so rich!

    Installing the switch doesn't sound very smart to me.
  • terry92270terry92270 Posts: 1,247
    ROFL!

    So, it is always okay to lie, especially when for monetary gain :confuse:

    I gotta go lay down...........
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    No, I never said anything about wanting to make a lawyer rich at all.

    What I said is that "toyota really has no grounds to deny a warranty claim for someone who installs an EV mode switch if the HSD software is already CODED FOR USE WITH an EV mode button and they just "left it off" the North American models."

    Hundreds of Pruis owners have done this mod. It's not a big deal.
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,794
    "What I said is that "toyota really has no grounds to deny a warranty claim for someone who installs an EV mode switch if the HSD software is already CODED FOR USE WITH an EV mode button and they just "left it off" the North American models."

    Hundreds of Pruis owners have done this mod. It's not a big deal."

    Toyota provided a warranty book for your US MODEL Prius. The only things they are legally required to honor are those things specifically covered.

    1. If you modify your vehicle you will probably void the warranty. If this language isn't in the fine print of the warranty, then Toyota is an idiot company. The first time you showed up with a bad battery, or possibly any problem, they could legitimately deny you coverage. Auto makers have been covering (and denying) warranty repars for a long time. It wouldn't be much of a court fight. 1) Did the owner modify the vehicle? [yes] 2) Does the warranty prohibit this? [Yes] 3) Was a copy of the warranty provided with the vehicle? [Yes] Case dismissed, with prejudice.

    2. You do not know if the US version has the EV modules in the software. It may well have a completely different version, without EV. Since there is no factory EV switch, I would be shocked if Toyota left in this orphan computer code.

    Here are some exerpts about the UK EV Mode:

    "EV Mode EV mode is apparently not available in the US, for reasons I suspect have something to do with product liability. As evidence, the following quotes are from the UK version of the Prius Owner's manual.

    * 'In the "EV" drive mode your vehicle runs like an electric vehicle, only using the electric motor....'

    # 'CAUTION The driver should pay full attention around the vehicle especially when it is driven by the electric motor (with the gasoline engine stopped). People in the immediate area might misjudge the hybrid vehicle movement based on the absence of the regular engine noise.' Not only in bold, but inside a black border!

    # 'In the following conditions, the "EV" drive may be automatically cancelled....

    # The hybrid vehicle battery assembly charging level is 2 or lower. The vehicle speed exceeds about 45 kph (28 mph). The accelerator is depressed strongly or on the slopes.' [The EV range] usually ranges from several hundred metres to 2 km (about 1.2 miles or less) ....'

    # '... frequent use of the "EV" drive mode may worsen fuel economy.'


    http://tinyurl.com/my3en
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    See my response at the "Prius Modifications" board.
  • pathstar1pathstar1 Posts: 1,015
    Perhaps I should clarify my comments. If you install an EV switch, whether aftermarket or a Toyota one purchased from Japan or Europe, you have voided the terms of the warranty. This is reportedly Toyota's position.

    IF you have problems (which I doubt - it's a Toyota for heavens sake!), you WILL have to take them to court if you want warranty coverage. So you WILL be supporting lawyers! Good luck on this one. Toyota is a billion $ company, they can afford the best lawyers. Usually they would win. Personally, I couldn't even afford the court costs (which you would be "awarded" if you lost)!

    According to reports I've read, you will not save fuel, you may end up using more, as there are losses in the conversion of fuel to battery charge (20-40% losses). The only benefit I see is a little convenience. If you just want to move the car a short distance using electric only, use very little throttle. It will usually stay in electric mode for up to 30 sec. or so. Unless the battery is down a bit on charge.

    The software module is in the North American cars. If it wasn't the switch wouldn't work. Even with the switch activated, the car will still engage the ICE when necessary. It just does it later than normal.

    The Prius, with or without the EV switch, is a -gasoline- powered car. All power comes from fuel burned in the ICE.

    Now you -can- do a "plug in conversion", where they add a lot more battery and a charger. In this case you would obviously void the warranty, but you could drive perhaps 10 mi on battery power only (I haven't checked lately on their progress - check http://www.calcars.org/ for info on this project).

    Feel free to do what you like. Lots of folks have added the switch. Some remove them before letting the dealer see the car, some do not. Just don't be in denial of the consequences.
  • ?? Your post didn't make sense. You enable a feature already there. You did not make a modifiation. Because the external switch can be removed and the systems is the same. No modifcation exists? Not a lie???

    Is it a lie because a stupid, incompetent driver causes a wreck? Well yes, the liability is on the driver not the car.

    Cheers,

    MidCow

    P.S. - Don't use your lawn mower to trim the top of your hedge.
  • Pthstar,

    FUD "The sky is falling! The sky is falling" -- Chicken Little

    Don't believe every rumor you read or hear,

    MidCow
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,794
    "Your post didn't make sense. You enable a feature already there. You did not make a modifiation. "

    MidCow, you ususally get the point faster. The EV switch is not approved for the US model Prius.

    Toyota does not allow EV switches in the US version, and installing one is putting a non-Toyota-approved hardware modification on the vehicle. This voids the warranty, and opens the possibility that Toyota may not honor parts or all of the warranty if you have any trouble with the vehicle. The same thing is true if one tries to "re-flash" the CPU chip.
  • Okay her is the disconnect " ...hardware modification ..."

    Hardware modification is not usually reversable, nor is a firmware mofication, e.g. flash.

    The EV external switch is not really a hardware modifiation, but a software hack. ... okay, find the same software hack that enables the software feature...

    probably up down down up rigth right left on the fuel display screen :P . That is not a hardware modification. Just wait until the hack is know then you would agree , not a hardware modification.

    Either find a smart Prius owner out there or wait until they make a mnaul shift Prius and I enable the EV mode.

    LOL,

    MidCow
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,794
    "The EV external switch is not really a hardware modifiation, but a software hack. ... okay, find the same software hack that enables the software feature..."

    MidCow, if you can enable the sofware without a switch, then you are correct. However my understanding is that the owner is installing a hardware switch somewhere in the car. That is a hardware modification, regardless of what the switch does. They are also running wires from the switch to the CPU; those wires are not "virtual wires", they are hardware.
  • terry92270terry92270 Posts: 1,247
    Have we gone over, or does anyone know for sure, why Toyota provides such a switch in other parts of the world, and not here :confuse:
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,876
    Let's talk about MPG real-world numbers please.

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  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,794
    "Let's talk about MPG real-world numbers please."

    They got into this because some people think the EV switch would improve MPG...
  • Bought an 07 Prius, drove it for one week, 461 miles so far and 51.6 MPG. Still have a quarter tank left. Great Car.
  • Me too! Bought an O7 Prius on 10/7, have driven 275 miles, some of which was mountain driving, and still have more than a half a tank. Average including the mountainous driving is around 44mpg. In my old Tahoe that would have been about 100 bucks worth of regular gas and it would be empty and needing another 100 bucks to refill. What a great car. :shades:
  • cobra9cobra9 Posts: 4
    First tank is ~51, mostly freeway. :)
  • terry92270terry92270 Posts: 1,247
    Congrats!! :)
  • billd6billd6 Posts: 3
    I wish I could say my computer and measured numbers were close, but I just measured 37 mpg when the screen said 48. Average driving temp in the 60s. Car is three weeks old. Not happy. I noticed that my total miles (372 when I filled up from near empty) weren't anywhere near the range I was expecting for a full tank. I thought there might be a couple of gallons of reserve that don't show on the gauge, but I ended up putting 10.1 gallons in, yielding the 37 mpg figure. However the computer gets its number, it's way off and I'm starting to feel more than a little screwed. :mad: I can get this FE from a much cheaper car. I like the car otherwise.
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