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Nissan Murano vs Toyota Highlander vs Subaru B9 Tribeca vs Honda Pilot

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  • >> Sure- marketing videos may be biased to favor their brand.

    Yea, marketing is biased by nature.
    .

    >> I've taken my Tribeca on some reasonably hairy 4WD roads and have been quite impressed.

    You should make a video then. I'd love to see in in heavy snow.
    .

    >> If that video isn't significant evidence that Subaru's symmetrical AWD VTD system doesn't transfer 100% of its power to a single wheel- I don't know what is.

    Yea, I also don't know what is evidence. Nothing really. There is no Subaru offroad rally wins, no independent tests to prove that. Even the official Subaru site does not state that it can transfer 100% of its power to a single wheel. So far it's more like wishfull thinking.
    .

    >> But, regardless, the Tribeca is pretty dang good off road. Just ask anyone who's ever take one there.

    It may be good, why not. But it does not appear to be the best
  • nmsgnmsg Posts: 39
    carchatnj,
    What major blind spots do you see in the 09 Murano? I was interested in the Murano and trying to find out what other people have to say about it. thx.
  • I haven't had an opportunity to test drive the new Murano, but I know the 08 and older models have major blind spots out the back...I believe because the window is so small and curved.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    There is no Subaru offroad rally wins

    Oh gosh, where do I start?

    Ever heard of WRC? The Kenya rally? It's off road, all right.

    That is the most ridiculous statement I've ever heard. I have to laugh. :D
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    So no Mitsubishi Outlander has ever passed the ramp test, then?

    I guess you give up, then? :D

    Why not call around and take your Outlander to a local 4x4 event, they have those ramps. Bring a video camera.

    Don't worry I don't expect an answer from you, even if you do go. :P

    My challenge was for you to prove the Outlander's AWD could do that, and you come back with a cool yet completely irrelevant video of an EVO and a Pajero.

    Driving in snow is fun, but we're talking about power transfer under frictionless conditions, so neither of those videos qualifies. We're talking ICE, not snow. Still irrelevant.

    You can continue to live in denial about Subaru having phenomenal AWD systems for the vehicles in this class, with video proof for those who have open eyes to see.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    this Outlander AWD performance is impressive:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3arUMr2PsI
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJt0j38JJBA&feature=related

    In the first one he nearly gets stuck at around 15-18 seconds.

    Also, he never comes to a full stop, instead relying on forward momentum to keep going.

    On the 2nd one, at about 1:35 it shows the Outlander plowing the snow from a lack of ground clearance.

    Also, in at least two spots on the video you can tell the front wheels are spinning a lot faster than the rear, note the rooster tail of snow.

    Fun videos but let's see one on that ramp.

    Seriously, take yours to a local 4x4 event. It would be very revealing. In theory it should be capable, given the lock button and the traction control, so go for it!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Still you did not show any evidence to support your claim that Subaru AWD system would be capable of "100% power transfer to either axle".

    Pay closer attention to this video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t09ExAUgtyE&feature=related

    At the 2:48 point, the AWD system shifts power to the rear axle and the front wheels stop spinning. That Forester doesn't even have traction control, so it can only be one thing accomplishing that - 100% power transfer to the rear axle.

    At 3:08, the AWD system shifts power to the front axle, and the rear axle never even begins spinning. Again, there is no traction control, so we have 100% power transfer to the front axle.

    There's your proof.

    For 2009 models traction and stability control were made standard, which would aid in side-to-side power transfer. The Tribeca always had it.
  • I was researching the exact same vehicles before deciding on the Pilot finally. I was getting much better offers for the Value Package AWD Pilot compared to the base models of all other vehicles. The dealers seemed much more willing to dip into their holdback at Honda also. I suppose I was fairly partial to Honda's from prior experience, so that helped. As word of warning, the "compare" option for most of the vehicles seem to leave out or mislabel a few features from each competitor. That can be expected, however. Just use sites like Consumer Reports or Edmunds to get a full comparison.

    As far as looks go, the Pilot is definitely not the hottest daughter. I think it still looks rugged, and somewhat refined. I wasn't looking for all the bells and whistles though. Just a basic, three row SUV to keep my family safe and not give me much trouble in the long haul. My personal opinion (and that of Motor Trend, Consumer Reports, and a few others) went to the Pilot. Resale value should be great as with most of these vehicles. Just my $0.02. Cheers!
  • tifightertifighter WAPosts: 1,350
    Nice work; the Pilot is an excellent buy right now... ;)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Congrats.

    Having seen the concept for the upcoming Pilot, I'd say yours looks a whole lot better.

    Most the reactions I heard from others was similar - not an improvement at all.
  • The vast majority of WRC is not off-road. The Monte Carlo segment, where the Subaru won, was on finest French roads.

    The Kenya Safari Rally - yes. That's a good example of off-road rally. Subaru won 4 times - good job, but Mitsubishi won there 8 times - great job! Dakar Rally: Subaru 0, Mitsu 12! Are you still laughing? I guess I got the best laugh :--)
  • >>So no Mitsubishi Outlander has ever passed the ramp test, then?

    Marketing video does not qualify as test.
    .

    >>Why not call around and take your Outlander to a local 4x4 event, they have those ramps. Bring a video camera.

    Why not to take your Forester through the snow.
    .

    >>My challenge was for you to prove the Outlander's AWD could do that, and you come back with a cool yet completely irrelevant video of an EVO and a Pajero.

    Your marketing videos are just as irrelevant as my marketing videos – that’s my point.
    .

    >>Driving in snow is fun, but we're talking about power transfer under frictionless conditions, so neither of those videos qualifies. We're talking ICE, not snow. Still irrelevant.

    We are not talking ice. You are talking ice. I’m talking snow.


    >>You can continue to live in denial about Subaru having phenomenal AWD systems for the vehicles in this class, with video proof for those who have open eyes to see.

    Subaru has good AWD system, but not the best. Your marketing video is not a proof.
  • >>In the first one he nearly gets stuck at around 15-18 seconds.
    Also, he never comes to a full stop, instead relying on forward momentum to keep going.


    First you complain that it stops, than you complain that it does not. Could you make up your mind?
    .

    >>On the 2nd one, at about 1:35 it shows the Outlander plowing the snow from a lack of ground clearance.

    Amazing that Outlander easily gets through as much snow, as it has ground clearance! And the Outlander has more ground clearance then Forester. What your Forester would do in this snow?


    >>Seriously, take yours to a local 4x4 event. It would be very revealing. In theory it should be capable, given the lock button and the traction control, so go for it!

    I would if I find one.
  • >>At the 2:48 point, the AWD system shifts power to the rear axle and the front wheels stop spinning. That Forester doesn't even have traction control, so it can only be one thing accomplishing that - 100% power transfer to the rear axle.

    Nope. The 2008 Forester DOES have traction control standard
    (may be not in Brazil though :--): http://www.edmunds.com/apps/nvc/edmunds/VehicleComparison?op=2&tab=features&maxv- - - - - ehicles=5&basestyleid=100887346&styleid=100920113&styleid=100962664&vehicleindex- - - - - =2&removestyle=100962664

    So your marketing video could be just a nice trick.
  • tifightertifighter WAPosts: 1,350
    Weird.

    I don't see the Forester or the Outlander listed in this topic.

    So...anyhow...
  • Really guys, please take this elsewhere. Where are those ever-watchful hosts... :sick:
  • Stever@EdmundsStever@Edmunds YooperlandPosts: 38,968
    I'll go page Tidester. :shades:

    I don't see that any of these rigs are really trail ready anyhoo - they may be fine for getting to the ski hill, but Moab?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Sorry, guys, I'm not trying to stray off topic. I'm specifically discussing Subaru's AWD systems, including the Tribeca. The Outlander is not in this thread, but its AWD system is being compared to the Tribeca's, which is.

    Why not to take your Forester through the snow

    I did that plenty of times, it was a ball. My family grew and I needed a lot more space so I replaced the Forester with a minivan. No more fun in the snow, the van can't hold a candle to what the Subaru could do, so....

    We are now shopping for my wife and I will look at another Subaru. I will consider an Outlander but I'd like to see if it can pass the ramp test, i.e. if the AWD is truly capable of distributing power to each wheel, enough to get it to climb in those slippery scenarios.

    Personally, we've owned one Mitsu and 2 Subarus, and had a better experience with the Subarus, but I'm open minded.

    I could care less that you dismiss those videos. I certainly don't. To me they prove the AWD system simply works.

    I wish you'd be up to the challenge and take your Outlander on such a ramp, then at least I'd know if it is as capable as you claim. Go for it, why not? What are you afraid of? :confuse:

    You are talking ice. I’m talking snow

    Yes, because your video really says more about the tires. A Mustang with studded tires could do that. The ramps test the AWD system, not the tires.

    The 2009 Forester has more clearance than the Outlander, and those are the models I'm cross-shopping, among others.

    2008 Forester DOES have traction control standard

    Nope, that's a different model, the XT Sports has VDC, but the one on the ramp is a basic X model, with no traction control. There are many ways you can tell - the lack of a hood scoop (not a turbo), the wheels, the mirrors are smaller, and a few other differences.

    Doesn't really matter because the Forester test is only measuring front to rear AWD distribution, not side to side. It would make it up with or without traction control.

    As proof, the Tribeca (which does have traction control) makes it up the ramp effortlessly.
  • I was pretty sold on the 09 Highlander Sport 4x4 (though I'll most likely wait for the 2010s to come out) with all the features like nav and leather etc... and then yesterday I test drove a Murano LE fully loaded and it seemed a lot more responsive in terms of steering, acceleration, and control.

    I'm sort of on the fence right now because price wise they are really very similar, so I wanted to see what others have thought of the two cars, but I don't need the 3rd row of seating, I really only require AWD for going to the mountains to ski and also some room to take my dog places.

    Here's what I've found:
    Highlander Pros
    * Bigger cargo area
    * More roomy
    * Better NAV/dash system
    * Exterior looks nicer - more manly
    * I trust toyota more as a brand for things like maintenance and quality.

    Murano Pros
    * Interior seems nicer, more luxurious
    * The acceleration seems better ( same engine, but seems lighter )
    * The rear camera has lines that show you how far things are away.

    Is this consistent with what others have seen? Am I missing something?

    Thanks in advance.
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