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Honda Civic Real World MPG

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  • rikrakrikrak Posts: 31
    ;) I took my 07 LX Civic for my second trip from St.Louis to South Padre Island. It's about 1,250 miles each way. Since it was a July trip the A/C was on 100% of the time and although I hardly went over 85 mph (Texas is big) I was hardly under 70 would say 74 was about average but if I find a group cruisin I'd join in. So did I get 40 mpg, never but at the speeds I was able to maintain and with the 10% ethenol fuel getting 35 to 38 mpg was impressive. I could get 400 miles to a tank but that is one long stretch to drive. One thing that seemed to eat up gas (to me) was the cruise control seemed to really "drop" a gear on the hills unless I anticipated and kept the little engine humming. :shades:
  • caazcaaz Posts: 203
    Hmmmm interesting point of view. I guess when my Daughters boyfriend changed his regular "stock" air filter the other day, which hadnt been changed in ages, then he told me he was getting about 4 mpg higher. I told him its because his engine actually is breathing easier. Which is exactly what a K&N does. Any engine breathing more freely will get better gas mileage period. Unless you use the newly found extra power by driving faster or accelerating faster from a stop, then you've lost all the gains. Sounds like our unbeliever needs to go talk to a diesel mechanic, or a few mechanics so he can leqarn about air-fuel mixture. When my brother in law took his brand new truck in, and changed his intake (more air) and exhausr (less air restriction), we took a trip from Phoenix to Ca. Improved our normal stock gas mileage from 21 to 24.7 at 80 MPH with a/c on. Yes both the k&n and there are about 2 other brands out there, will improve your mileage, if and only if you dont lead foot it and lose your gains. I gues we could invite a K&n employee or expert to show actual power and gas mileage gains to our forum, and show you the actuall Dyno numbers on the cars and give us all a more technical explanation to back up what im saying. Trust me, they work, and ive driven over 2 million miles in my life, i've seen the evidence.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,899
    The essential question is does a oem filter case a "blocked drain" effect. It clearly and truly does not!! What it does do better generally is filter better (than other media)! VERY few intake and after market filter manufacturers advertise they filter BETTER than oem's. For sure, K&N does NOT!!!

    In some intake designs, there are the snow prophylactic effects, which folks like K&N assiduously avoid talking about. To make a long story short, those designs where the snow prophylactic designs CAN but do not necessarily inhibit air flow, a new intake or K&N will provide marginal improvement The price is of course increase "crud" being ingested and injected. But if there is no need for the snow prophylatic designs (which folks that use new intakes defacto decide) then simple removal (of the snow prophylatic portion will unblock the lack of flow that was there in the first place. The concept of course is the removal costs NOTHING!
  • joe147joe147 Posts: 5
    sorry shipo, replace your air cleaner with a k&n and test it for your self. then you will understand what the real world is talking about.
  • I just had a k & n ram air system installed on my 07 civic coupe over the weekend. I'm open minded and want to see for myself if it really does make a difference. Since it was installed I have noticed that driving at 55 mph to work and back I use significantly less throttle. I've been driving for over 40 yrs and my driving style has not changed even a little bit. I will report my experience back to this board after a tank or two. So far in city driving I have been getting a consistant 35 mpg and I think that may not change significantly but we'll see.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,899
    Two test that have already been run:

    1.the before and after UOA's Bobistheoilguy.com numbers indicate greater load (in the oil system) of silicon (aka dirt)
    2. actual before and after dyno runs on Z06 Corvette.com. No demonstrated statistical difference in hp/torque attributed to (oiled)air filter media use.

    Also atomized mineral oil is NOT, I repeat NOT good for the intake of ANY ICE!! It also increases the chances of the oxygen sensor and chip corroding!!!
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    So, you're saying K&N filters give 4 MPG better?

    Say this is true (I dont use them so I dont know either way)...why dont they market this? With some easy controlled testing, they'd have a marketing plan that would capture the market.

    I haven't used one so I can only speculate, but having gotten 40.92 MPG on one highway trip in my Accord before, I have a hard time believing that I would have gotten 45 MPG (of course I had a hard time believing I got 40.92!).
  • caazcaaz Posts: 203
    its not necesarily 4 mpg.....its usually about 5% gain in mpg and sometimes (dyno tested) it been up to 12% horsepower on certain cars...other cars as small as 2%. It must depend how restricted the breathing the car is directly from the factory.

    As far as marketing?......lol Its in every Pep Boys....Checker auto....Kragen....and Autozone....In the country. I can get one from any of those places in the U.S.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    "sorry shipo, replace your air cleaner with a k&n and test it for your self. then you will understand what the real world is talking about."

    Sorry dude, it's all in your head (and the head of those that are deluded into thinking the same thing as you think). There is absolutely zero scientific evidence to support your claims. In fact, even common sense would suggest that the K&N cleaner won't do squat when it comes to fuel economy. Why? Simple, your engine measures the weight of the air after it has passed through the air filter (and usually the throttle body as well), and then adds the appropriate amount of fuel to the air. If (and I only say "if" for the sake of argument) more air was allowed to enter the engine after adding a K&N, then your car would add MORE fuel and your mileage wouldn't change one bit.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    "its not necesarily 4 mpg.....its usually about 5% gain in mpg and sometimes (dyno tested) it been up to 12% horsepower on certain cars...other cars as small as 2%. It must depend how restricted the breathing the car is directly from the factory."

    Please don't confuse power at WOT with fuel economy. I think that there is little doubt that a K&N filter will offer less restriction at WOT (at the expense of extra dirt getting into the engine), however, at cruising speeds, the demands of an engine on its air filtration system are minuscule. At any given throttle setting during a steady state freeway cruise; there will not be a measurable difference between the air passing through a clean OEM filter and a K&N.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • eldainoeldaino Posts: 1,618
    grad wasn't talking about a lack of marketing...

    but rather a lack of mentioning such an increase in fuel economy. even if it was only a proven 2% gain, in times like these with the way gas is, A LOT of people would be all over it.

    I really doubt a k&n filter makes any such boosts in fuel economy, especially not when they are supposed to be for better performance. Performance and fuel economy usually DON'T go hand in hand.

    good points by shipo and ruking as well.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    As far as marketing?......lol Its in every Pep Boys....Checker auto....Kragen....and Autozone....In the country. I can get one from any of those places in the U.S.

    Sorry, I was referring to how it is advertised and marketed to customers.

    I never seen any ad campaigns talking about such big gains.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    is that if fuel economy could be improved this way, why wouldn't the manufacturers take advantage of it and then promote the heck out of it?
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    That was my whole point as well, pat.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Oh, sorry, I thought you were talking about K&N marketing the filter itself.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Wait, now I'm confused. By manufacturers I thought you meant companies like K&N marketing their filters as mileage misers.

    You may have been meaning the car manufacturers. Whatever. I know what you mean!
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Yes, I did mean car manufacturers. :blush:
  • Mainly because the k & n intake system would add $200+ dollars to the cost of the car, just like a performance exhause system would add $450+. If they can produce intake and exhaust for cheap and make money from it that's what they are in business to do.
    Corvette and viper are the only U.S. cars that make their own performance intake and exhaust systems and if you buy one of those you are paying for it.
  • eldainoeldaino Posts: 1,618
    we are not talking about entire intake systems, just replaceing the stock air filter with a k&n one.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,899
    The retail price of an oz of mineral oil (K&N coating oil) is .83 cents an oz

    VS

    the retail cost per oz (per gal price of 12.26).0957812 cents.

    Would 8.67 TIMES more motivate you?
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,899
    "we are not talking about entire intake systems, just replaceing the stock air filter with a k&n one."

    Right! On the C5 Corvette if one either:

    1. just removes the snow prophylatic and cable ties the oem filter

    2. just drills holes in the snow prophylactic cover portion, again using the oem air filter

    you get the EXACT dyno numbers and GREATER (than K&N) filtering ability.!!! Cost? NADA!! You ALSSO cut down enormously the potential for mineral oil migration to those critical and EXPENSIVE to fix components.
  • Since this thread was all about increasing mpg I was under the impression that we were talking about replacing the entire intake system with a k & n intake to achieve that goal. Just replacing the filter in a stock system wouldn't provide much improvement as the restrictive intake components would still be in place. my bad.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,899
    I would not agree!!

    And, I would agree with the second point!

    All one has to do is to look at the aftermarket products! (both intake and filter products) It is HUGE HUGE business!

    In terms of filtering ability and so called "performance" for my .02 cents those products are not worth the asking prices.

    The other is the concept of cold air vs engine compartment induction!!??

    VW Jetta TDI designs a so called "cold air" induction; with removable snow snorkel (my term prophylatic). The snow snorkel has a (pre) screen and (from backwards to fowards) vents to the windstream via a protected area sheltered by plastic louvers. This is further prescreened by the screened portion of a front edged bra!! Still, after a cycle of 5,000 mile snow screen cleanings /100,000 miles or 20 cleanings, I am still amazed at how much debris/dirty is "prescreened" by the snow snorkel screen!!! If I took off the snow snorkel (or just the screen) all of this would dump into the bottom or dirty portion of the stock air box!! Of course the TDI is designed in such a way where the air flow is NOT impeded (aka gets ALL the air it needs, even with the snow snorkel) for a full charge of air! So it makes almost absolutely no sense (from a performance and filtering point of view) to do any modifications. I have also done a visual inspection by wiping the clean side of the air flow intake with a hot soapy water dampen white clean rag and there is literally no dust residue!!! To boot, I EXCEED the oem recommendation for air filter change by a min of 25% to 50%!!! I do a 50/60 k miles interval when 40,000 miles is oem recommended. But truly that is WAY conservative!!

    I will grant the air induction system is BUTT ugly.However that is entirely a different issue, which aftermarket vendor address at steep prices! :( :)
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    I don't believe that K&N makes any compete induction systems for cars, only air filtration devices and their associated housings and plumbing.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • rupnok1rupnok1 Posts: 29
    sorry to get off the track about air filters but wanted to submit one year's 'real world' mileage experience with my '06 civic LX coupe AT:

    miles driven: 20328
    total gallons used: 536.9
    average MPG: 37.86
    best tank MPG: 44.7
    worst: 33.4

    average conditions: daily ~50 mile commute DC metro area (speed completely variable from 60mph to stop and go), occasional 250 mile highway trips (72-78mi/h cruise control), a/c when needed, no mods. last 6 months tire pressures +3-5psi over doorjamb specs.

    cheers,

    -C.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Actually, you're the one who's on track here. :) It's time we moved on. Thanks.
  • puzmanpuzman Posts: 2
    My daily commute is 2/3rds cruising around 50 on rural roads, then 70+ on freeway, then 5 mins or so of stop-and-go. First two tanks were during break-in (no trips above 5000 RPM):

    27.5 mpg, 29 mpg

    Third tank after break-in (at least one trip/day to redline), and overall more agressive driving : 27.5 mpg
    All tanks were during heavy AC use. I think this is pretty impressive for a performance car. I imagine with less A/C use and less agressive driving, I could easily break 30 mpg.
  • eldainoeldaino Posts: 1,618
    they make actual intakes, does that count as a full system?
  • eldainoeldaino Posts: 1,618
    sorry i'll pass on the mineral oil. ;)
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    No, K&N does not make any full intake systems; all they make is the filter, the filter housing and the necessary plumbing to fit the filtration device to your car.

    I suggest that before we raise the ire of our hosts any further, we put a lid on this discussion, and if necessary, continue it over in the "Gas Saving Gizmos & Gadgets" discussion.

    rjlee, "Gas Saving Gizmos & Gadgets" #1, 6 Sep 2001 2:50 pm

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
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