Lexus ES 350

golfer71

Doesn't appear from everything that is now floating around that the ES will have AWD. Does anyone know this for certain? Or does anyone know if AWD will be an option later in the year? Did the Lexus magazine say anything?

I would just buy the GS if it wasn't too small inside. Great car but just not designed for anyone over 6 ft, IMO. That is why I am hoping the ES will have it.

The glass roof looks very nice. Overall the car is good looking and it seems that all the Lexus cars will have a similar look and feel. I don't get the roundness of the center console but it isn't something that would stop me from buying. I think they have done a good job. Much nicer than the last model.

caseyes330

With additional information and pictures coming out, dose anyone have an idea/thought of what the MSRP will be?

Also, I am a little slow on the up-take.... is the glass roof standard or optional?

jimbres

You've raised this question before. There's no reason to think that Toyota will cut into GS sales by offering an AWD variant of the ES. That makes no business sense.

According to your profile, you live in Washington, D.C. In your part of the world, AWD might make a difference 4 or 5 days a year. During the other 360 days, the added weight of AWD will slow you down & burn more gas.

I live north of you, in NY, & I can tell you from long experience that FWD, good-quality rubber & sensible driving habits will get you through any winter that you're likely to see. My wife's 99 ES 300 has never gotten stuck. Even if we could buy an AWD ES, I don't think we'd bother -- unless we lived somewhere north of Boston.

If you simply can't live without AWD, you might consider waiting until this fall, when, according to well-founded rumor, Infiniti will roll out an all-new G35 & G35x.

bluesman3

Yea, I'm a bit tired of the ES AWD question..... As Peter DeLorenzo would say:

Itain'tgonnahappen.com

bimmer4me

can't say the same for the interior dash...it's just plain weird IMO.

jchan2

If I did slam you, I would like to apologize. It looks really close except for the back end.

I see a blend of IS and Camry. It'll be a hit I think.

dp5

The exterior seemed a little bloated to me at first but I like it more every time that I look at it. It doesn't have the sleek appearance of my 2000 ES 300 but I think I could learn to appreciate it. I like it more than the current model year.

The oval shape at the top of the center console sure seems weird, though. Hopefully, it is just the angle and will look much better in person.

Regardless, I'll probably by the car within the next 2-3 months. The list of features available is just incredible.

callmedrfill

You are hereby vindicated!! :shades:

Join the club! As I predicted that the LS600h wouldn't reach $100k, and the nytimes.com backed me up in a recent appraisal of the upcoming LS.

We may actually be flamboyant! LOL!! :P

The car looks sweet to me! Yes, you can see the Camry in it, but definitely a sweeter style, and worthy of a premium.

With this automotive "Blitzkrieg" from Lexus, with all four new sedans in the span of 18 months, what's German for Armeggedon?

Is it Blitzkrieg? :confuse:

DrFill

golfer71

I am hung up on the AWD. Although beneficial in snow the real reason I want it is for how it drives. FWD does well in snow and would be adequate. AWD is much more fun. If I was worried about gas mileage I would get a Prius.

But back to the ES. It is a great car. I think we will be very happy once we get to sit in it and then later on drive it. I wonder about FWD and so much power. I am sure Lexus has dealt with any possible negative experiences.

I am curious about the back seat. Looks a little like the CLS from mercedes in that it might be chopping some headspace for style. I think the GS sacrificed too much in its design. I hope that Lexus doesn't make that same mistake with the ES.

sorter

It is alot like a Camry. If Toyota Launch this vehicle with the Toyota logo, it is not that difference either. And I think the interior is a step back from the current ES, although it is more manly.

Like the GS, this is a so so job. IS and LS, on the other hand, are awesome.

grandaddy

I haven't really liked the ES since the 01 model. Reminds me of a fancy Taurus for some reason. Especially that oval dash.

mikegiller

To clear things up a tiny incey wincey bit: I posted those photos, so NO I am not talking about my post...

I was talking about this, which was the last photo posted:

bluesman3

"If I did slam you, I would like to apologize. It looks really close except for the back end."

Thanks for being a stand up guy Jchan2.

mikegiller

Incredible. Somebody read my mind! First thing I thought of when I saw the dash? Oval. When I think of oval, I think Ford Taurus. When I think of Ford Taurus I think. &#*&%#!!! Hrmm... I hope it's the angle, cus' I ain't a fan of the oval design. Maybe it looks better in person. :confuse:

jchan2

You're Welcome

I liked the current ES330 dashboard, but that was just me. The new one is nice too. Lexus has a hit!

ctalk

I really like how Lexus designed the ES. IMO the back could be better, but it's overall an attractive vehicle. Very simple and elegant.

I don't think it'll be called a luxurious Camry after this comes out.

jimbres

If you're looking for fun, RWD is the layout of choice. I have an '01 BMW 330i (w/stick, of course), & that, my friend, is fun. AWD adds weight, which diminishes that "tossability" (is there such a word?) quality.

I do share your concern that torque steer might be a problem with the new ES. My daughter has an '05 Acura TL. When you give into temptation & stomp on the go pedal, the car pulls to the right. It makes me question the wisdom of sending 270 hp to the front wheels. But in normal driving, with a bit of restraint on the driver's part, this isn't a problem. We'll just have to wait & see.

andy82471

Hmm... that seems like the Japanese version of the ES. Looks like it has a slightly different looking tailights. Looks very nice.

mikegiller

In Japan, the ES was the Windom, the Toyota Windom. The exact same car, same price, same luxury, same features, different badge (Toyota) and different model name (Windom). That is a modified photo and an IS 220d at the Geneva show.

I cannot find the exact photo but this is pretty much it. For a person experienced with Photoshop it is pretty elementary to make the modification. You can notice in the background the poor editing.

navigator89

Not sure if anyone has seen it, but here it is.

callmedrfill

That affected a few Scion tC owners, and replaced the glass deflector with a reinforced plastic one.

Think the roof looks pretty cool, doh!

DrFill

golfer71

Jimbres, I still have my old 325i and I can't get rid of it because of the toss factor. Such a fun car to cut loose on the highway cloverleafs. The joy.

Looks like the ES will be on sale as early as the end of this month. On another site someone has timeline for lexus releases. Let's keep our fingers crossed.

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golfer71

I'm not sure of the rules but here is that delivery list.

jchan2

It links to another forum, so it's not allowed, but it made for some interesting reading.

IS Convertible coming in 2007... LX replacement too. It sheds a lot of light on Lexus' future.

LS900h... hmmm... They're not talking about a 9.0L engine, are they?

toyotaf1fan

Anything about the 2007 IS having a 3.0 and dumping the 2.5?

milldoc

I bet this has been asked - I apologize in advance! BUT What will a 2007ES cost? Base? & Extras -- LOVE the dual sunroof! Can hardly wait till Feb 8th!!!!!!!!

Doc

mikegiller

What do you get when you add a 5.0L V10 with two HSD motors?

An LS Nine-effin-Hundred-h!

BOO-YAH!

Tell me, did anyone see that one comming?

Summed up:

2006
Early January - In-Production - ES 350, RX 350

Early February - In-Production - GS 450h
- Product Launch - ES 350

Mid February - Product Launch - RX 350

Early September - Products Launch - LS 460
- Engine Change - GS 460

2007
Early January - Product Launch - IS Convertibles

Early September - Product Launch - LX Replacement
- Product Launch - LS 900h

bluesman3

About the same price as the current version costs... Probably close the 40's fully loaded.

jchan2

It did not say. All it said about the IS was the launch of the convertible.

golfer71

Look at post 376. Notice in front the two parking sensors on the corners. Then on the back is parking sensors. Yet on the first picture there is a square impression on the front right bumper. I wonder what that is? Is it like my bimmer that pops out so a tow truck can pull you out of a ditch?

doctorw

I love almost everything about this car except the rear roofline. It looks like it robs headroom and perhaps even leg room due to having to move the seat backs forward enough to provide merely adequate headroom. Perhaps I am wrong, and once I actually see the care in person and get in and take a look, I will feel differently. I was really anticipating this car, but the look of that roofline and the all too hashed over lack of AWD is very disappointing.

I still think an AWD ES350 could be adequately differentiated from an AWD GS350 to allow both to peacefully coexist. I would take 20-25 fewer horses (275 vs 300) and a more luxury oriented ride than a GS350 in exchange for AWD. Let the GS cater to those who want a sporty ride and the ES to those who want a roomier luxury car experience but who aren't ready to step up to the LS and want AWD because they live in the north and have kids.

I'm not a sales and marketing guy but I don't think the above scenario is unattainable. Unless, of course, Lexus believes there is not enough of a market for an AWD entry level luxury sedan. But in Boston, I see plenty of G35x's not to mention Subaru Legacy's and Chrysler 300C's w/AWD. I think there is a big market for a ~$40,000 entry level luxury sedan maxed out w/AWD. Heck, that's what a Chrysler 300C lists for and the ES350 would beat in every category except HP.

Infiniti has been smart, they have not split their line into luxury and sport models, therefore it is quite easy to differentiate between them. When Infiniti introduced the G35 they still had the I35, but they realized this dilemma and quickly discontinued the I35. Lexus has the IS and ES and GS and LS. The GS is not a sportier version of the LS, it is much too small to compare. Instead, judging by size alone, it is more of a sport version of the ES. However, where does that leave the IS? The way I see it, Lexus has boxed themselves into a corner because other than performance there is very little room left to differentiate the ES from the GS so they can only do so much with the ES. Heck, maxing out an ES330 now gets you close to 42K MSRP while a base GS300 starts at 43K. Adding an extra $1,500 to an ES350 for AWD would not drastically change the current dynamic.

I know someone will make the obvious point that it isn't offered so why waste my time on this, or the ever-popular "Lexus is doing pretty well right now as is". But there is always room to improve. Of course I welcome intelligent discourse and other points of view.

callmedrfill

Especially the ES, as it gives a nice advantage over the TL.

The IS is relevant because it has THE POTENTIAL, to be unlike any other Lexus, and can gain key conquest sales from cars like the G35 and 3-series.

DrFill

golfer71

DoctorW,

I can't agree with you more. I am hoping that they will make some type of announcement this week that it will be available later in the year. However, I doubt we will see it. I think that is a mistake. I might be forced to a E350 4matic. I love the GS but it is too small. I don't seeing those products competing with each other due to size issues.

Some folks on the forum don't get this point but the fact is I suspect there are a lot of buyers that want this option. I would like a hybrid too. I think these cars are for different people and AWD is merely a feature to me. A very needed one.

This point should be discussed and not be considered pointless. Although, I have enjoyed the feedback from jimbres. Heck, imagine if Lexus had all their sedans with AWD & Hybrids. I think this could make the company even more desireable.

tds1

I am with you too about the AWD. Here in Minneapolis, although AWD is certainly not a necessity (I frequently drive RWD with snow tires in winter), there are some days that it's nice to have.

kat2858

I hope the price of the new ES includes a 4-year maintenance agreement similar to BMW's. I was just ripped off for 100 bucks, labor and materials, for the replacement of the air filter in my 2004 ES. I expect to pay more for service at the Lexus dealership but I hate to be gouged.

jimbres

You might see optional AWD in 2 or 3 years, when the ES comes up for a mid-cycle makeover. Until then, Lexus probably figures that the new styling & more powerful engine will attract buyers.

Those of you who wish for AWD in this car should hope that Acura offers it on the TL. That might force Lexus to move faster.

petl

It should be easy for Toyota since most of the vehicles produced in Japan (by Toyota for the Japanese market) are available in AWD/4WD format.

bartalk3

I seriously doubt that Lexus is going to offer a 4-year maintenance contract with the ES, since, to my knowledge, they don't offer it on any other model. Their sales are strong, why should they? As far as $100 to change your air filter, you can do it yourself for nothing, unless it's located in some obscure and hard-to-access place.

bartalk3

...until the press debut of the ES350 at the Chicago show.

vantage2

I dont know if this was posted in earlier posts but I found a page with VERY GOOD pics of the new 2007 ES. So take a look! http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/t119352.html

jaxs1

Already posted here days ago. Calm down.

vantage2

Sorry About that.

alpha01

You have no reason to apologize, ignore jaxs. Had that link not been provided already, you would have become a board hero, lol.

Anyway, welcome!

~alpha

bartalk3

Vantage. Yes, ignore jaxs. We need more comradery and helpfulness on this board. Thanks for posting the pics. There may be lots of people who have not seen these. Hopefully we'll get more on Wednesday from the Chicago show, and then once the show opens, people will have photos of their own to post.

Kirstie_H

Hey, posting something popular a second time never hurts, especially when new members drop by and may not want to scroll back xx number of posts to find the link. Welcome to the discussion, Vantage2!

bluesman3

Get the live feed here for tomorrow.

The marketing for this is just plain goofy.....

http://www.2007es.com/

fredvh

What time is the new ES shown tomorrow?

andy82471

Yep. Looks plain weird. Anyway it is the car that matters since this is gonna be by father's next car. I am hoping people will post some nice pics of the ES on this website.

mikegiller

The air filter is located the same place it is for the 3.3 L Camry, on the right hand side of the engine compartment. From what I recall, all you need is a 3/8" hex, or if not, it is held down by spring clips. Easy to do yourself. All it takes is 30 seconds!

chris65amg

What's with the flower motif? It's slightly odd, but kinda cute in a way.