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Honda Accord Hybrid MPG-Real World Numbers

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  • 1992 manual 4cyl. I use 44 psi tire pressure and get 34.3 mpg in this rural county. Trips of 3 to 12 miles.
  • Sorry for the double post there, didnt think the first one went through....

    Tim
  • One datapoint on mileage, 2005 HAH. During the last week when outside temperature was 44 F and in mostly flat terrain, I got:

    38 mpg at 65 mph under cruise
    32/33 mpg at 80 mph under cruise
    30 mpg city

    My worst ever tank is 28 mpg.
  • Has anyone made an independent test of the gas mileage vs. what the computer tells us? I have about 11,000 on my HAH. In 09/05, I drove over 2200 miles in just a couple of weeks and did a "manual" (and admittedly crude method) to check the mileage...divide the total miles by the total gallons of gas I put in it for all 5 fill ups. At the end, the car's computer said 35.0 mpg, but my manual calculation said 33.6. I think the difference comes to only about 1 or 1.5 gallons of gas, so my calculation could be off based on a small difference in how the tank was refilled. However, since I averaged it over 5 gas tank fills, I would think it to be pretty close. Any thoughts?
  • vietviet Posts: 847
    The "manual" and the "computerized" calculations are very close. Difference is very tiny. It means Honda's computer is pretty good. I usually do both.
  • cleviclevi Posts: 6
    I have about 2K on my HAH and the mileage is getting worse. Part of that is due to the short trips that make up most of my driving and part is due to the drop in temperature as we get into winter here in New England. But I have observed that the car does not use dynamic braking when it should. This as especially true when the car is first warming up, but even after the ECO light comes on, it is not charging when coasting or braking much of the time. This is true even when the charge indicator shows only 3 or 4 bars.
    Is this normal behavior?
    Right now I am getting about 24MPG on a tankful.
  • I have had my 2005 Honda Accord Hybrid for 3 months and have put 4,200 miles on it. When I purchased the car, it had slightly less than 500 miles on it. I tracked the mpg at every fill-up. I was initially getting right at about 31 mpg (90% highway 10% city). During the first two months the actual mpg declined to 25 to 27 mpg with no change in driving habits. The only real change in conditions has been the temperature. Also from a weight perspective, I do not tend to have other passengers at all.

    The other thing I noticed was that the car's mpg indicator tends to be overstated and prior to the colder weather setting in, it would read higher immediately after filling the gas tank (33 to 36 mpg range). In the last month,the best reading I can get is between 27 and 28. I drive on the highway most of the time at 60 to 65 mph with the green "Econ" light illuminated. My actual mpg was 26.6 for both of the last fill-ups.

    I am getting ready to go to the dealer for an oil change and was wondering if something needs to be checked. I am very disappointed with my mpg results so far. I have a 1992 240 GL "Tank" that gets 23 mpg. The mpg I am getting does not justify the premium price I paid.
  • cba82cba82 Posts: 2
    My experience has been much the same as that of stlmo57. I bought my 2005 HAH like-new (129 miles) last month, and I have yet to get as much as 30 mpg on any tank of gas. I drive 90 miles a day, virtually all of it highway, and now have about 2,500 miles on the car. The 1997 Civic I traded in routinely got 38 mpg on the highway.

    Might I be doing something wrong? I've noticed that the blue 'assist' bar seldom comes on; should I be actively trying to get that to engage? If so, I don't know how to do that.

    Any tips? Thanks.
  • cba82,

    Hi, I am stlmo57. When I 1st started driving my 05 HAH in mid-September, it was almost fun to see how high I could get the displayed mpg to read. Although I could sometimes get it to read as high as 36 mpg, the actual measured amount was much less and never more than 30(when I fill-up my car I literally fill it until the pump will no longer dispense and do the math myself).

    Some things I noticed early on were:

    1) I got a much higher reading on the dash displayed mpg immediately after filling up the tank.
    2) The only time I had 3 passengers in the car, the dash displayed mpg dropped sharply 4 to 5 mpg.
    3) In St. Louis, Mo, when the weather turned cold, I never saw 30 mpg displayed on the dash for over 30 days, even after a fill-up.
    4)Today, Thursday December 22, in St Louis, Mo the temperature topped 57 degrees and magically, I was getting a dash reading of 31 mpg.

    Have you noticed any of these items?
  • cba82cba82 Posts: 2
    Thanks for your reply, stlmo57.

    I've not manually computed my mpg, relying instead on the dash display; next time I fill up I will do the math myself as a check on the car's computation. Also, I live in New Hampshire, and we've had a very cold December, so I've not been able to compare results in cold weather vs. warm; at this point, it likely won't be until April that I'll be able to get a sense of the results in warmer weather. The only passengers I've carried in the car are my young children, so I've not detected any difference with passengers and without.

    Reading the posts on this forum has given me some ideas of how to improve mileage -- including letting the car engine do the braking, increasing speed only gradually, and lowering my overall speed on the highway -- that I am going to try out and see if that helps at all. When I see some of the numbers people are quoting on this board, and other people remarking that "you must be an experienced hybrid driver," that suggests to me that there are specific techniques you can teach yourself to improve mileage.
  • stlmo57,
    I live in Kansas City and got my HAH in late May. I've made numerous long trips. During the warm weather, I would average about 36 mpg driving to Davenport, IA at over 70 mph. However, when I made the same trip in 14-degree weather at the beginning of December, the mileage was down around 29-30 mpg. Since the weather has warmed up during the last week, the mileage has again improved. I can only speculate that the density of the cold air affects the gas mileage, but I would never have guessed the effect would be that large. Perhaps there is an engineer or other science-brained person following the thread who can tell us if the air density of the cold air can acutally make that much difference.
  • stlmo57,
    Regarding the self-measured gas mileage vs the computer, I am also very interested in this. I've read material from the "auto advice" types which says that you can't get an accurate calculation of gas mileage by doing the calculation on 1 tank of gas...the calculation can be off because the car is at a slightly different angle than the last time you filled up (so you actually put in a different amount of gas), or various other variables. They suggest you calculate an average mpg over several tanks of gas. For instance, keep a record of how many miles you drive over several fill ups and compute the mileage from that. I did it it this summer (over 5 fill ups) and came up with an average of 33.6 mpg vs 35.0 that the computer told me. I think that is a big variance. I am going to do the test again, but would be interested to know what you, or others who read this, experience.
  • vietviet Posts: 847
    I have compared many digital MPGs and my own manually calculated MPGs. The differences are very small and insignificant. Honda does an excellent job to calculate the HAH's MPG.
  • ryan1550,

    I am a creature of habit. With the exception of being out- of-town, I have filled-up my car at the same Quick Trip near my home for over 10 years. So this variable is fairly constant. After I purchased my 05 HAH, I set-up an Excel spread sheet that I tracked my mpg on. The spread sheet was also cumulative (divided total miles by total gallons out to two decimal places). The problem with doing it over multiple fill-ups, as in my case, was over the first five fill-ups I averaged 28.5 mpg. In reality, my mpg has walked down, ie., 31 mpg, 30 mpg, 29 mpg, 28 mpg, 27 mpg and 26 mpg. Thus an average of 28.5. These are not the actual numbers, I am just simplifying my example. But, I did experience this type of trend. Cold weather definitely does comes into play (2-4 mpg). I am taking my car in for an oil change tomorrow and I will ask the dealer to tell me what they think. Given that this is a Hybrid, and it commanded a $3,000 premium, anything under 30 mpg, is a disappointment.

    As I stated in my initial post, I do approximately 90% highway and 10% city. On the highway I maintain a speed of approximately 62 mph with the "Eco" light illuminated.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I live in Kansas City and got my HAH in late May. I've made numerous long trips. During the warm weather, I would average about 36 mpg driving to Davenport, IA at over 70 mph. However, when I made the same trip in 14-degree weather at the beginning of December, the mileage was down around 29-30 mpg. Since the weather has warmed up during the last week, the mileage has again improved. I can only speculate that the density of the cold air affects the gas mileage, but I would never have guessed the effect would be that large. Perhaps there is an engineer or other science-brained person following the thread who can tell us if the air density of the cold air can acutally make that much difference.

    Don't forget that gasoline formulas change with the seasons, and winter formulas generally achieve less mileage. This is true in my Accord EX 4-cyl. When I got the car in October, I was getting 30mpg regularly. Now I am down to an average of 26.6mpg (according to my log). It makes a difference depending on where you live, i.e. the Northeast uses a different fuel formula than does the Southeast. Hope y'all have a happy holiday!

    thegrad
  • s2khahs2khah Posts: 26
    I tend to agree with the graduate. I live in New Jersey and they used to use an additive during the winter (I believe it was an oxygenating additive) MTBE? That reduced mpg by 5-10% but I am not sure it is still added.

    Also my local station has recently posted a sticker on the pumps that the fuel may be up to 10% renewable energy which, I suspect, means alcohol based. Alcohol has about quite a bit less BTU content than gasoline so that would also reduce MPGs. Check with the local gas station about any of this.

    When the use of renewable fuel sources becomes prevelant, then all vehicles will get less mpg's but I feel a tradeoff that will make us give less $$ to OPEC is worth it.
  • I agree that less than 30 mpg is a disappointment. However, I realized when I purchased the Accord (rather than a Prius) that I was buying Honda's version of a hybrid: basically a gas-powered car that uses hybrid technology around the edges. Let's face it, the biggest gas-saving factor this car has going for it is the use of the 3-cylinder ECO mode, which is not new technology is not even hybrid. But I did want to buy a hybrid--I wanted to support the hybrid market and support the technology, and I didn't want a Prius or an SUV. Toyota's hybrid technology seems to be more gas-efficient. I eagerly await the introduction of the hybrid Camry and I hope there will be some hybrid Lexus CAR models as well. If those had been available, I doubt I would be driving an Accord.

    In the meantime, I bought the Accord...kind of a sorry excuse for a hybrid, but a car with very nice styling and handling, generally suitable room in the back seat, and 10%-15% better gas mileage than an all-gas Accord. Yes, the additional vehicle cost was a rather large premium to pay for 10%-15% better gas mileage, but I look at that as what I'm willing to do for the environment and less use of oil. (I also realize that most people look at it more closely as a dollars and cents issue than I do.)

    And now that it's 2006, don't forget to include the hybrid tax deduction on your income tax form.
  • Hello all. I live in west texas, the weather in the winter here has been consistently around 70 degrees and my HAH has been getting around 41 on the highway and 32 in town. I hope this sheds some light on I am in sales and drive my vehicle around 350 miles per week. I can't believe my gas savings and its excellent on roadtrips. My last trip i was averaging at a speed of 90mph around 32 mpg. hey, at that speed, why complain about 32mpg?
  • vietviet Posts: 847
    Congratulations. I love my HAH too.
  • peisenpeisen Posts: 1
    Samething happened to my HAH. I've been driving the new HAH car only a few days. Mostly local driving around DC, I got 19.8 mpg from the dashboard. I need help too.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I see all of the postings where people are getting 37-40 mpg and no matter what I do I can't get above 31. Florida is FLAT, and I am an easy driver - slow starts, ECO light on most of the time. My highway driving to work is only about 20 miles each way and about 5 miles regular roads, not much traffic, only 1 or 2 lights. I now have just over 1,000 miles on my new HAH. Do you think it will get better?
    thanks!


    Don't forget that longer trips yield better overall mileage! Have you gone over 100 miles at a time in it yet? If you do, you will likely see a marked improvement, because the engine isn't spending fuel cranking the car or warming itself up to normal operating temperature. I'm no expert, but I know this will have SOME effect, however small.

    thegrad
  • vietviet Posts: 847
    Technically agreed with thegrad.
  • s2khahs2khah Posts: 26
    I see also that, with the advent of cold weather here in NJ, the MPG has dropped on my HAH.

    Aside from a recently started use of 10% ethanol(at about 1/2 the BTUs per gallon than petro) in pump fuel and the likely use of MTBE oxygenation additive (another energy killer) I still am not satisfied that the appreciable reduction in MPGs I see is entirely due to those.

    Of course the most significant culprit is likely the cold weather.

    Therefore I researched my local Honda parts department and there is a block heater available for around 80 clams plus 120 for installation.
    I anticipate this would make a significant improvement in fuel economy by allowing the oils etc to be more fluid at startup and also allow the temperature enabled "Eco" mode to kick in sooner.

    Does any one here have firsthand experience with this option?
  • vietviet Posts: 847
    The classic philosophy is "When it ain't break dont fix it". An Asian axiom also says "Don't try to turn healthy pigs into crippled ones". Honda engineers should know better than we do. They measure their products inch by inch when they build them. So, enjoy their products and..."pay", of course.
  • xcelxcel Posts: 1,025
    Hi S2khah:

    E10 gasoline has ~ 97% of the Btu’s offered in non-Ethanol laced gasoline. Your FE hit will be on the order of 1 - 3% using E10 vs. Non-E10. Colder temperatures (below freezing) can take down combustion and driveline efficiencies by as much as 25% overall for those with shorter trips. In a nutshell, cold temperatures have a far more drastic effect on FE then does E10. A block heater will help in the warm up phase when you are receiving ~ ½ the warmed up FE for those first 1 - 3 miles but it will not help the driveline and combustion in-efficiency’s described above. I see an ~ 12% overall FE hit from 70 degrees F to below 32 degrees F with longer drives if that helps?

    Good Luck

    Wayne R. Gerdes
  • s2khahs2khah Posts: 26
    Wayne,
    I fully agree with the thermal effects on driveline performance, even on long drives.

    However since the HAH drivetrain is predominantly in the engine compartment I expect the heating of the engine coolant to make an improvement (not cure) on almost the entire driveline due to parasitic heating of the trans/differential by the warmed engine.

    The wheels and bearings, front and rear, would be obviously excluded from any benefit.

    As far as Honda making engine preheating a standard, it makes no sense considering a large portion of HAH owners do not live in areas that are subject to 32 degrees or less at night. Plus, plugging in the heater at night, seems a likely hassle for many owners.

    My interest here is just to find out if anyone has tried this approach and to what success.

    If this works, I think it is a modification that could bolster the HAH high mileage claims, and be a very "Green" thing to do.

    If beneficial, it may result in Honda adding it to the "Options" list at purchase rather than making it a somewhat difficult item to find that many people don't know is available.

    FYI: My old Toyota T100 offered that as an "option" (when new) so someone somewhere must consider it a reasonable accessory. And, except for "pre-start" bearing oil injection I feel that it would lengthen engine life better than most other modifications.
  • xcelxcel Posts: 1,025
    Hi S2khah:

    As has been previously stated, a block heater will help to remove some of the (½ the average FE over the first 1 - 3 miles) FE hit. It will not cure it by any stretch of the imagination.

    As for a large portion of AH owners not subjected to less then 32 degrees F, about half the country (geographically) is subjected to these types of temperatures during mid-winter for months of the year. It is not just 32 degrees either. Below 70 degrees F, there is a hit. And 50, and 30, and 10, and so on and so on. The FE hit does not happen at discrete temps of course but is a steady decline as the Mercury plummets unfortunately for us all.

    Here in Chicago, our average daily Hi/Lo temps in the winter months are as follows:

    Dec.: 24/37
    Jan.: 18/32
    Feb.: 24/38
    Mar.: 32/47

    Chicago has a somewhat temperate climate given its proximity to Lake Michigan which acts as a huge buffer to the extremes. A city like Des Moines, IA., Rockford, IL., Madison, WI., Minneapolis, MN. Sioux Falls, SD., Bismarck, ND, many towns and cities in the upper elevations of the Rockies and Pacific Northwest, much of the upper North East, etc. are subjected to even lower average temperatures in the winter months.

    As for the green thing to do, might I recommend a particular website where the hypermilers spend most of their time? You can do much more for the environment with your right foot, eyes, and brain then you will ever be able to achieve with an engine block heater. About all I can add is trust me on this and consider what is posted below to find out more ;)

    Good Luck

    Wayne R. Gerdes

    img src="http://www.greenhybrid.com/compare/mileage/car/54/signature.png
    img src="http://www.greenhybrid.com/compare/mileage/car/595/signature.png
    img src="http://www.greenhybrid.com/compare/mileage/car/380/signature.png
  • mes1mes1 Posts: 2
    I don't know if we are talking about the same car. I bought my HAH last May. It has about 13,000 miles. I am consistently getting only 18 mpg in the city and about 24 mpg in the hwy. I have contacted both the dealer and Honda Motor corporation about the problem. They gave silly excuses and indicate that the performance that they advertise is only an average and tha it depends on your driving habits. I am in my late 50's and my wife is younger than me. Our driving is very conservative. However neither the dealer nor the manyfacturer take any responsibility for this poor performance. I could get this performance with a car that is not a hybrid.
  • mes1mes1 Posts: 2
    I really wish the media were making enough noise about the misleading information by Honda and the misrepresentation when they advertise 29 mpg in the city and 37 mpg in the hwy for the HAH. I am consistently getting 18 mpg in the city and 24 mpg in the hwy. My driving is very conservative. I am in my 50's. Neither the dealer, nor the manufacturer have taken any responsibility for this poor performance. The car has been checked 4 times for the same issue. Their statement is "The car is fine. We only advertise an average performance". However, I don't know how they can justify saying that 18 mpg is in the average range when they advertise 29 mpg in the city and 37 mpg in the hwy. 18 mpg is about half of what they claim the car will do in the city. Does any one have this same problem? I wonder if anybody has any idea on how to get this problem resolved since neither the dealer, nor the manufacturer are taking any responsibility for it.
  • Viet,

    The why did Hoinda try to significantly change the 2006 HAH. And is doing so ran into some issues and the delivery delays? Did they cripple a healthy pig; abiet heavily discounted ?

    Cheers,

    MidCow
This discussion has been closed.