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Hyundai Sonata vs. Honda Accord vs. Toyota Camry vs. Ford Fusion
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It did win, I think you meant shouldn't right?
The Sonata tied the Accord from 0-60, but for the 0-100mph test the Accord got 16.6 and the Sonata got 18.2.
must have car
Isn't it called the "gotta-have-it factor"?
You pay for that feeling with Honda - and most people will.
That is good to know, the next time I need to accelerate from 0-100 mph, which is, uhmm... never. Actually, I find I need to floor my little 4-cylinder cars to get to 60-65 mph from a dead stop maybe once every couple of years. The 0-60 and 0-100 times are technically interesting, but I wonder how important they are in the real world?
Also, I don't think I've ever needed to get a car up to 90 mph to pass in over 30 years of driving. But that's probably because the max speed limit in my state is 70 mph, and that's only on ex-urban freeways. On two-laners the max speed is rarely above 55.
The Acura does have less power but it does not handle as well as the Mazda6. The TSX is what the rest of the world gets when they go to a Honda dealer and buy an Accord. Buying one just because of the Acura badge is a big waste of money IMO. Stick with the Accord or 6.
If you really want great performance at about the same price as a loaded Accord V6 coupe check out the MAZDASPEED Mazda6. 270+ HP, AWD, 18" wheels, and handling that makes a BMW feel like a Kia (I'm assuming that last one). Base price is $28,655. $30,585 if you want leather, heated mirrors and seats, some kind of advanced keyless entry and starter.
Here are the specs if you're interested. They should be arriving on select Mazda dealer lots any day now.
Truth is, more than you might think. It comes in handy to have that extra bit of horsepower or speed when trying to pass that dump truck that is going 55 and dropping rocks all over your new Sonataccord. I would think anything over 200 horsepower in the midsize sedan field should be pretty safe when trying to squeeze into the next lane that is going 20 mph faster. The numbers that I look at more than 0-60 are the "passing acceleration". I believe it is either Motor Trend or C&D that show this, as a 45-65mph (C&D shows a 30-50 and a 50-70, I think, could be wrong). It is a good measure of how quick/efficient the auto tranny is, and how much usable (i.e. not power brake launches) power the car has.
Go to Honda.com use the comparison tool, get the actual MSRP and equivalent competitive Car, Honda also posts the ALG resale values, just get the numbers as well.
Go to Edmunds and get the NHTSA Safety scores and JDPower IQS and JDS scores
Go to KBB or Carsdirect.com go get the actual price paid and apply the standard math in a spreadsheet.
MSRP*Resale Value = Retained Value
Price Paid-Retained Value = Depreciation.
Accord really stands out.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Many of these roads have a 70 mph speed limit. Having some punch in a fuel efficient 4 cylinder engine (like the Accord's) is a satisfying feel. I like to get to my destination an hour earlier than you.
Also try accelerating from an uphill on ramp onto the interstate where most cars are going 70 and you'll appreciate the extra power. Or in the mountains.
Honda won't leave you feeling disadvantaged for buying a 4 cylinder. Probably the strongest in the industry, and great on fuel.
I tried to explain to someone in another forum about how an extra 50 horsepower was worth the money to me in a minivan (Odyssey vs. Caravan). He couldn't understand the fact that I am not a race car driver; I just take pleasure in knowing I dont have to worry about merging in front of that speeding truck. I can safely change lanes and both of us be on our way with no sweat. Same is true of the Accords, but with less spread between the competitors, and any of these sedans will handily outrun a Dodge van, and likely the Odyssey.
In a strictly urban route, stick to a 4-cyl, as you will have all the power you need to go 0-20-0-10-40-0 miles per hour. Me, I need some grunt to go 0-80mph uphill in 500 feet everyday!
I'd have liked to have seen a Galant GTS as well as G6 GTP included, and Camry SE V6. And wheres the Altima? C/D usually does a better job of putting together the competitors.
~alpha
Accord EXV6 6spd
Malibu SS
Galant GTS
Mazda6 S Grand Sport
Altima 3.5SE (for some reason I don't care for the SE-R)
G6 GTP
Camry SEV6.
But I think the point of the comparison was to put the two newcomers up against the "Benchmarks" of this class.
The Camry is the benchmark in a lot of areas, but this generation hardly wins any comparison tests.
Strictly your opinion. TSX and 6 are neck and neck in handling, many publications picking the TSX due to its excellent shifter. Yeah, it is a Euro Accord, but is that a bad thing? The reason it is expensive is that it is loaded with almost everything you can think of. And Acura can't make enough of them! However, the one think that a buyer may want to look at is the value of the MZ6, especially with all those hefty discounts (4-5k?).
"If you really want great performance at about the same price as a loaded Accord V6 coupe check out the MAZDASPEED Mazda6. 270+ HP, AWD, 18" wheels, and handling that makes a BMW feel like a Kia (I'm assuming that last one). Base price is $28,655. $30,585 if you want leather, heated mirrors and seats, some kind of advanced keyless entry and starter. "
The Mazdaspeed is a dud. Its heavier than the MZ6 (AWD) and loses out on handling due to this. Its 0-60 times are comparable to the V6 MZ6, in many tests even slower. Nothing special, and the marketplace will demonstrate that. For 30 large, the whole marketplace opens up (325, TL, G35)
I'm glad I don't live in those areas, but in the more sane Midwest where people generally respect speed limits, and traveling at the limit in the right lane is common, and respected.
I do have a few uphill freeway on ramps in my town which have stoplights on them :mad: and I don't have trouble merging w/o full acceleration even with my little 2.0L cars. But I suppose if you have a very short ramp, that extra surge of power could come in handy.
I think the Altima's 4-cylinder is stronger than the Accords, however--isn't it 175 hp on the Altima?
It 175 for the accord now too based on the old standard, but the new accord is rated on the new standards, which would likely drop the altima to the accord's 166 hp or thereabouts.
The only time I've ever floored my Accord to about 80-90mph is on an empty stretch. Only did it once... but was that exhilarating
What I find weird is how C&D came out with 7.0 in their test drive, but 6.6 in their comparo.
Different conditions, different drivers. Also, if they used different cars, one may be broken in while another isn't; or one may be more abused than the other. Look at your watch and count half a second...its really not that big a difference.
Actually half a second can make quite a difference.
Different conditions, different drivers. Also, if they used different cars, one may be broken in while another isn't; or one may be more abused than the other.
Yup. What I found weird is how C&D came out with different 0-60 times. They're usually quite close to eachother, or the same.
Maybe C/D can time cars consistently but didn't. Maybe they just put in times they have in this comparison test for one to used for relative times between cars?
The ALG criteria is a convenient barometer for a vehicle when it is first new. But 5 yrs down the road if the residual value is 7000 and the Black Book wholesale value is 5000 noone will trade it in for a $2000 penalty. This is what causes a lot of misunderstanding and tension in vehicle sales.
I find that the Edmunds values on used cars here are pretty close to accurate. e.g. a 2000 Malibu LS cloth, no S/R with 75000 miles is an 'average' vehicle..
Black Book $3500
Edmunds
Trade in.... $3000
You sell.... $4000
At this time in this market a 5 yr old Malibu is not worth $6300 unless you can sell it yourself and get your buyer to pay you over-market on it. Things might change if GM recovers and the new models get tremendous acceptance. But if the new models are rebadged 2000 LS's this is what you can expect in 2010 also.
my mother bought an '03 malibu(same style as the '00). listed at 17,700. paid 13,500(plus tax, etc). stick that in your calculator and see how it works out.
i think the numbers will work out in favor of the hon/toy, but not by a lot.
The comment about the Mazdaspeed6 losing out on handling because of the higher weight is not very good reasoning. I'm sure the folks at Mazda has retuned the suspension and tightened up the damping rates. I wouldn't be surprised if the Mazdaspeed6 rides very stiff and corners flatter than any of the cars mentioned here. Plus it must have a better weight distribution due to the AWD layout. Of course, then the question is how much is AWD and 270+ hp Mazda worth to people. The Altima SE-R would also be competitive here, if people don't mind that notorious torque steer that is. I think it's also interesting how much discount Mazda is giving on the '05 RX-8s, making it much much cheaper than the Mazdaspeed6.
Doesn't this agree with what Bobw3 was saying? ...look at the price actually paid vs the used car value. Then look at the dollars, price paid and price "returned".
The difference could be due to variations from car to car, a stickier test track (more traction, hard to correct for.) They usually are pretty consistent, but sometimes there are rather large differences from test to test with the same car.
Who knows?
That is correct. Mazda will have that thing tuned superbly and none of us should expect anything less.
As for accordman's 0-60 theory, he's probably using old data from a pre-production test where the 0-60 time was in fact not much faster than the base V6. Fact is, Mazda realized it wasn't fast enough so they changed the gearing at the last minute before production. NO ONE has tested it with the new gears yet but Mazda claims 0-60 times right around 6 seconds.
Here are the ratio changes (as posted in the MAZDASPEED thread):
Old ratios: 3.611(1st-4th), 3.095(5&6th)
New ratios: 3.941(1st-4th), 3.350(5&6th)
Gas mileage is now 19 city, 28 highway.
I've never read where the TSX handles as well as the Mazda6 but if you guys did then so be it. I've read that it's a nice car but lacks soul (or was that the TL and RL?). I've never read anything about a Mazda lacking soul.
Anyway, the TSX is plain expensive compared to the V6 Mazda6. A comparo thread between the two was started a while ago and didn't make it very far for that very reason.
Interesting notes were the Accord's awful last place braking distance (149 feet from 60MPH), and that the 6 speed, 221 horse Fusion was only as quick as the 190 horse Camry in most measures of acceleration (such as 7.2 seconds to 60)
~alpha
There was another comparison test made by Motortrend that came out with the same rankings.
~alpha
Nah, they wouldn't do that... would they?
The Daily Auto Insider
Friday, October 28, 2005
October 2005
Toyota is close to making electronic stability control standard across all its vehicles, The Wall Street Journal reported, citing Irving Miller, group vice president of corporate communications for Toyota.
"We're working on that; we're close," Miller told the WSJ.
While stability control, which uses electronic sensors to selectively apply the brakes of a vehicle to keep it from going out of control, is often standard on luxury vehicles, it is typically an option that costs several hundred dollars on other models, if it is even available.
A federal study said the technology reduced single-vehicle crashes by 67% in SUVs and 35% in cars, and the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, the research arm of auto insurers, found the technology reduced the risk of being in single-vehicle crash by 56%.
alpha
As for accordman's 0-60 theory, he's probably using old data from a pre-production test where the 0-60 time was in fact not much faster than the base V6. Fact is, Mazda realized it wasn't fast enough so they changed the gearing at the last minute before production. NO ONE has tested it with the new gears yet but Mazda claims 0-60 times right around 6 seconds."
you are right, i was referring to the initial tests done by CD/MT. Hopefully mazda has taken care of that.
On the handing part, all mags that tested that version said the regular 6 handles much better than the mzspeed6 (not surprising at all, since the platform is basically a great handling FWD one). suspension tuning does not defy physics; even bmw could not make the 3xi as goog a handler as the rwd 3 series. lets wait and watch once a regular production mz speed6 comes in.
Quite the opposite; CD and MT hate each other, and are NOT owned by the same company. i think you got confused with CD and Road&Track(both owned by HFM). MT is owned by primedia.
here's somthing to ponder however; i subs to most auto mags (CD, MT, RT, Autoweek), most of the tests in each issue have have the same cars for that month. probably something to do with the carmaker releasibg a particular model to all mags around the same time
what i like most about CD tests is that they also give 5-60 mph figures, for folks like me they make more sense, as i don't usually brake torque every time i take off from a stop light.
Actually that thread went quite far, and i had quite an enjoyable time frequenting that forum.
As for cost, the diff between a 6 and a tsx became much heftier after the discounts from mazda. for 2005 model cars, they were discounting 4-5k, and that would make the real world difference close to 6-8k between the two. some posters here even got fully loaded v6 cars for less than 20k. beat that for value
i agree, for some reason, hondas usually come last in the braking figures. they really need to step up a couple of notches on this, definitely unacceptable. On brake feel however, they are pretty much at the top.
They probably both saw this discussion and knew it would be a good comparo.