Hyundai Sonata vs. Honda Accord vs. Toyota Camry vs. Ford Fusion

snakeweasel

I agree with you, if history is any judge the king of the hill changes often. It would not surprise me at all if Hyundai is on top of that hill in say 15 years (give or take), or some other brand that may not even be on our shores. Ford or GM may even reclaim that position in the not to distant future.

I do think the Fusion/Milan will take off but for would need another good one in the following years.

I think GM is showing some progress the events of the past few days not withstanding.

pat

Can we get out of the POS gutter here? I'm feeling like I need to clean off the bottom of my shoes!

Comments like so-and-so is a POS, no it's not, yes it is, don't really get us anywhere useful. Let's try to get back to some factual comparisons of what we see as positives and negatives of any or all of these vehicles and leave the gratuitous pejoratives aside, okay?

pat

we're not here to slam other posters.

Can we get back to the cars??

nvbanker

If I were Toyoda or Honda, I'd be more worried about Hyundai than Ford. This is Ford's best possible effort, and if it has tied, that'll be as good as it gets. Hyundai may not have tied yet - but they're getting better every day. Japan should be very worried about the Koreans...

giantkiller

"You must be such a great authority on automobile industry in your own little world. So great that you have misspelled Santa Fe three times so far, consistently as "Sta Fe"
"have you done/had on recent offerings from Korea before you reached that thoroughly educated conclusion? "

let me ask you this, have ever tried any product of Hyundai/Kia? PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS. You can never accuse me of that.
let me repeat that again Hyundai/Kia are POS, and here's my proof. Chew on it:
http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2005089
http://www.jdpower.com/awards/industry/pressrelease.asp?StudyID=860
http://www.jdpower.com/awards/industry/pressrelease.asp?StudyID=749
http://www.jdpower.com/awards/industry/pressrelease.asp?StudyID=692
http://www.jdpower.com/awards/industry/pressrelease.asp?StudyID=585
Now about that Sta. Fe and Santa Fe, they're the same and dont me tell otherwise. I'll educate you if you want. Santa is spanish for Saint and Sta. is short for Santa in Spanish , the same as St. is short for Saint in english. Get it?

Do you have any study or survey or figures to give me refuting my statements? Ignorance and shortsightedness isnt accident its a choice. You chose to be ignorant and shortsighted, I can never do anything for you.

giantkiller

Here's my proof:
http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2005089
http://www.jdpower.com/awards/industry/pressrelease.asp?StudyID=860
http://www.jdpower.com/awards/industry/pressrelease.asp?StudyID=749
http://www.jdpower.com/awards/industry/pressrelease.asp?StudyID=692
http://www.jdpower.com/awards/industry/pressrelease.asp?StudyID=585

giantkiller

Oh did you prove me wrong? Where is the link? All you've given me is the opinion of a JWT something guy? You mean if the guy tell you to jump you will jump?
You said "25-35 years old refuse to buy the Camry". How many percentage of Camry buyers are 25-35 yrs old ? You said 18%. I rest my case. Now you said the focus of Fusion marketing is the 25-39 yrs old. Now tell me now, do you have sufficient info as to how many percentage of Fusion buyer are 25-39 yrs old? If you do. Is it more than the 18% of Camry buyers who are 25-39 yrs old?
The thing I dont like about what you said is "25-35 yrs old refuse to buy the Camry. As if nobody in that age range is a Camry buyer when its not so. Its just not the biggest percentage of their buyer but 18% percent isnt small considering the volume of sales for the Camry. Let's consider just for the sake of argument that 100% of Mazda 6 sales are from the 25-39 years old. Will the sales figure of Mazda 6 overcome the 18% sales figure of Camry for the 25-39 yrs old bracket? Big "No". Now will the Fusion which is bigger and heavier provide more driving isnpiration to consumer than the mazda 6? Big "No". Then how can you say that the fusion will attract more 25-39 yrs old buyers from the Camry when the more sportier mazda 6 cant?

"Thirdly how are Hyundai POS except the Sante Fe?"

Did I said "Probably"? I remember I said that.

giantkiller

Youre all talk but you dont give any link to prove it. like you said the new Camry sits on the present platform. I gave you 2 links refuting it . But you still wont believe it. I didnt invent those links. Look, here its is again. Now give me a link that says the new Camry sits on old platform.

Here's a quote from www.canadiandriver.com reviewer:

"But styling concerns shouldn't distract us from the Avalon's superb new platform and powertrain, which will be shared with the next-generation Camry and other Toyotas. The Avalon is a trailblazer for this new platform and powertrain and I'm sure we'll be hearing a lot more about it in the future."

Here's the link:
http://www.canadiandriver.com/testdrives/05avalon.htm

Here's another link stating that the 2005 Avalon is an all new platform.

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/sedans/0503_toyota_avalon/

Here is another statement from Inside Line (Edmunds.com)

"More of the same formula — roominess and high quality — can be expected for this sixth-generation Camry, along with an American-made hybrid version. Unexpected is an "aggressive" look to replace the Camry's often criticized bland styling. Sources say the Camry borrows cues, including the aggressive front end, from Toyota's European-sold Avensis, combined with a sloping back and short deck.

The 2007 Camry rides on a new platform, sources say. Engines are improved versions of the current 2.4-liter four and 3.3-liter V6."

Here's the link.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=106974

Now where's yours? All I'm seeing is you making statement refuting it. Where is the supporting info or link? I'm waiting for weeks now.

alpha01

I'm going to be pissed/shocked if all we get is an updated 3.3L which dates back a decade ago. Theres no reason why Toyota can't/shouldn't use the 3.5L, even if detuned.... its powerful and economical AND the company would probably recognize some economies of scale since the engine is already produced at TMMK for the Avalon. As it stands, Toyota is producing 4 engines there- the 2.4L, the 190 horse 3.0L, that 3.3L, and the 3.5. Why not just move production to the 2.4L and 3.5L?

I think its pretty much a given that we'll see the upgraded 2.4L with variable valve timing on both exhaust and intake, and I expect it to yield the same SAE certified figures as the new RAV- 166 hp and 165 foot pounds, and better drivability throughout the rev range due to the better breathing. Assuming the new car doesnt increase weight so much, it should be enough to notice. AND I sure hope the redline and shiftpoints have increased a bit- theres no reason this engine can't hit greater than 6250 a it currently does. (Upshifts under full throttle through the first several gears of the 2.4L 5A current version occur just shy of 6 grand)

~alpha

giantkiller

Additional info. lets use your info that only 18% of Toyota buyers are in 20-35 year old bracket( info that you quoted).
Lets say for the sake of argument that that percentage reflects the Camry's since that is their best seller.
let say again for the sake of argument that "all" Mazda 6 (where the Fusion is derived )sales are from the 20-35 years old bracket , its not exactly the truth but for the sake argument I'm willing to accept it.

Onto the sales figures of 2004.
Camry 2004 sales = 426K units
18% of Camry = 426K * 0.18 = 76.68K units
Mazda 6 2004 sales= 72K units
That proves that even if we consider all Mazda 6 buyers are in the 20-35 years old, its still smaller in numbers compared to Camry's 20-35 years old.

I dont think that the Fusion is sportier than the 6's. How do you expect them to grab the 20-35 market share from Camry then?

biomechanical

It doesn't look to me as if any of the links you provided prove that Hyundai is anything close to being a collective "POS". Looking at the first link you provided (The long term study for 2005)it appears that Hyundai is very close to it's Japanese competition. If I am reading the bottom graph correctly, Hyundai vehicles tend to have roughly one more problem per vehicle than their Japanese competition. As someone who will be purchasing a new family car in 2006, this long term study does little to persuade me to skip a Korean nameplate. In fact, this study isn't particularly useful at all without knowing exactly what these hypothetical problems might be. What if my one extra problem in my new Hyundai happens to be the dome light not working correctly? What if it's the transmission that drops out? The longer Hyundai warranty certainly is a bonus either way. If anything, this first link shows that Hyundai has made great long-term quality gains, as noted by the articles author. In fact, you may have missed the part on the bottom of the article where the Hyundai Sonata (last model) was selected as one of the top three models in vehicle dependability for the entry level mid-sized car category. At this point, it seems to me that the only tangible disadvantage to choosing a Hyundai over a Toyota or a Honda is a diminished resale value, which I believe is somewhat offset by a lower initial purchase price.

driverdm

You like to selectively interpret information. Toyota which obviously knows more about Toyota than you ever will said that it has problems getting the segment into the showroom. Obviously they feel their 18% is not sufficient. And also, they feel that that 18% won't guarantee them the sales lead in the future. Imagine if that 18% doesn't grow as they age but remains at 18%, they'd be in big trouble. Toyota said that, so you might as well either send them an email saying they don't know a thing about their own business, or just stop talking. I think Toyota is thinking long term while you are just thinking this week. Anyhow, the Fusion will outsell the Mazda easily. Ford has more brand recognition and more dealers. The Fusion may not be AS sporty as a Mazda6 but it is WAY MORE sporty than a Camry. I don't think you are going to get anybody to say different in this forum. And I own a Mazda6, am considering a Fusion, and I am 24, so I guess there is one person that doesn't fit your nice theory.

driverdm

Again you have selective reading. I provided a link and five quotes to back up my statements. I'll give you the links to the four articles that I used for the Toyota demographics information that I quoted but they are to another auto mag website and I didn't know if we were supposed to do that.

And correction, the guy was the director for marketing for the Fusion. JWT is the advertising firm he works for. This week there are aditional articles on Fords news site that back that theory up. I've given you where they are. Again I am not your research assistant. I think the guy in charge of marketing the vehicle knows more about its target demographic than you, who doesn't even work for Ford period. But that is just me and my common sense.

And that 18%, is the lowest of several manufacturers for that age segment. You have Toyota saying that they consider it a problem. That would imply that it is a problem for them. Again, just my common sense.

driverdm

I agree. Well thought out and laid out post. Some times you just can't discuss stuff with people. If the president of Toyota was on the forum and said they had a problem with 25-35 year olds, the guy would post that he didn't know what he was talking about. I've got published articles from Toyota and a Toyota dealer saying the same thing and he still refuses to believe. At this point I feel as though everyone ELSE knows that Hyundai's are decent cars, the Fusion is marketed towards the 25-39 year old crowd though they are also after the average Camry buyer, and Toyota has a problem reaching the Generation Y crowd. Enough said.

giantkiller

Well of course their gonna close the gap. Thats what they intend to do. From 2001-05 collectively theyre still below average and the Kia is still near the bottom. I dont think, that the only advantage of Toyota or Honda is the resale value. Thats a big understatement.

giantkiller

Nope. If Toyota President will see your post that says "25-35 years old refuse to buy Toyota's, he will then have the urge to refute it. Refuse to buy to me means a small percentage. Eighteen percent is not a small percentage wether the volume is 100K or 2.5M . Accept it.

spinzero

LOL chew on that, sure. Allow me to quote 2005 consumer report.

In another surprise, the magazine found South Korean automaker Hyundai Motor Co.'s mid-size Sonata sedan to be the most reliable car in the U.S. last year, with just two problems reported for every 100 cars sold.

"That's quite dramatic and shows that Hyundai has really made a big effort," said David Champion, Consumer Reports' auto testing director. "It used to be a joke to have Hyundai and reliability in the same sentence."


Best family sedan--Accord Hybrid
Brand with fewest mechanical problems--Subaru
Most Reliable Vehicle--Hyuandai Sonata
Best SUV with 3 row seating--Honda Pilot
Best Luxury Sedan--Lexus LS430
Best Small SUV--Subaru Forester
Best Small Sedan--Ford Focus
Best Upscale Sedan--Acura TL
Best Midsize SUV--Lexus RX330
Best Green Car--Toyota Prius
Most Fun to Drive--Subaru Impreza WRX

Brand Problems per 100 vehicles
1 Subaru 8
2 Honda 9
3 Acura 10
4 Toyota 10
5 Hyundai 11
6 Infiniti 11
7 Lexus 11
8 Audi 12
9 Mini 13
10 Ford 15
11 Pontiac 15
12Cadillac 16
13 Chevrolet 16
14 Chrysler 16
15 GMC 16
16 Jeep 16
17 Mazda 16
18 Saab 16
19 Dodge 17
20 Mercury 17
21 Volvo 17
22 Buick 18
23 Nissan 19
24 Saturn 19
25 BMW 21
26 Volkswagen 23
27 Mercedes-Benz 25
28 Lincoln 26

So much for POS, hmm? You see, you've decided to use a very classy word to refer to someone else's $20K investment, so why don't you back it up with something better than a single source. Which BTW also happened to have awarded their IQS 2004 to hyundai Sonata, and APEAL 2005 to Kia Amanti and Sportage.

No one said that Hyundai is the most reliable cars in the market. But there are many indications that they are not only doing very decently at this point, but also climbing up that ladder with unprecedented speed.

And for the record, My family and I collectively owned a 97 Hyundai Sonata for 6 years, and the only problem that we had was with a broken master cylinder at 100,000 miles. Did I LOVE the car? nope, too boring for my taste. But was it a POS? Far from it.

Finally, Hyundai is not just a small third world company. For instance, Hyundai Heavy Industry is the world's largest ship builder with 15% share of the global market. It is also one of the most technologically advanced one. The current CEO of Hyundai Auto is a very capable, strongly focused guy that has emerged as one of the star CEO's of the industry, and many say he is delivering what he promised.

Give it a few years, and we will clearly see who has been short-sighted.

bhmr59

Take it easy on giantkiller. (Gee, people could be callling Hyundai a giant killer before long!)

Anyway, giantkiller is just displaying how he won last week's award for "how to win friends and influence people."

backy

You are entitled to your opinion, but realize much of the rest of the world does not agree with you--including the reference you cited, JD Power. This is from one of your own cited articles--the most current one, which is the most pertinent:

Porsche makes the largest percentage improvement in its VDS score, while Hyundai experiences the largest reduction in problems reported by owners. Porsche, which ranks second among nameplates, improves 38 percent compared to 2004—a 91 PP100 improvement. Although still hovering below the industry average, Hyundai records a dramatic 115 PP100 improvement (31%).

"Hyundai experienced similar levels of improvement in the 2002 IQS, when these vehicles were new, which shows a successful effort by Hyundai in translating short-term quality improvements into higher long-term quality," said Parker. "Even though there is still room for improvement, Hyundai is a great example of an automaker that is making strides toward improving vehicle quality by paying close attention to owner feedback and designing products with both short- and long-term quality in mind."

Here are a few more third-party opinions to refute your opinion, with focus on the cars in this discussion. I have included several from your favorite source, JD Power, to make it clear that they do not share your opinion:

Sonata tops like-priced Accord and Camry:
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpcontainers/do/vdp/articleId=106434/pageNumber=1

Sonata tops more expensive Camry - twice:
1) http://www.motortrend.com/toc/thismonth/index.html (article not posted yet, need to get the magazine for now)
2) http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article_id=10245

Sonata top entry mid-sized sedan in JD Powers 2004 IQS; Hyundai tops Toyota and ties Honda overall:
http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2004037

Hyundai tops Honda, Acura, Nissan et. al. in JD Powers 2005 IQS; Sonata 2nd in entry mid-sized sedans, topping Accord and Camry:
http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2005069

Sonata is most-appealing entry mid-sized car:
http://www.jdpower.com/awards/industry/pressrelease.asp?StudyID=788

Sonata honored with Safety Excellence Award:
http://www.carpages.co.uk/hyundai/hyundai-sonata-08-10-05.asp

goodegg

Geez - all 4 of these cars are good. OK? And who lets JDP and CR decide what car is best from them? I could provide 10 links that show the Accord is king. But I'm aware Backy can provide Sonata accolades, this giantkiller cat can tout Toyota and so on.

I was pleasantly surprised when I drove the Sonata LX and know it'll contend in this sector. I've driven the Fusion SEL twice and was mildly impressed. I love the Accord and like what I see of the 07 Camry (check out the photos in the 07 camry discussion).But you can only drive/own 1 car at a time (at least for those of us in this price range) and I'd buy the Accord... not gonna dump on your choice. Gotta drive the cars yourself and experience everything they offer. They are all good.

backy

What is exasperating is not fair-minded people like you who have a preference for a particular brand or car, but can appreciate the merits of other cars. It's people try to get a rise out of others with blanket statements that have no link to present reality.

oldjoe

Toyota Camry is the highest selling auto in the USA for the last few years...Ford F150 comes in second.

oldjoe

As an aside -- Motor Trend has selected the Honda Civic as their car of the year. I believe the award contained words like reliability, engineering innovation and styling...I agree, they made the Civic look a lot like the Accord.

snakeweasel

All that means is that thet sell more, nothing more, nothing less.

snakeweasel

As I said earlier MT also gave that award to the Corvair, the Vega, the Citroën SM and the Renault Alliance.

goodegg

No.... the F150 is the highest selling vehicle period....by far. Good for Ford. Cause the cars they sell aren't desirable, except for the rental car agencies.

snakeweasel

Actually don't they lump all the F series trucks together to come out as number 1 in sales?

As for Ford not having desirable cars might I mention the Mustang and the GT (not that 99% of the population can afford $150k for a GT). The Fusion seems to be stirring up some excitement too. Now while I was never interested in the Focus I did rent one in Maui and while it didn't "WOW" me I was very pleased with it.

cxc

I noticed that our 2006 Hyundai sonata LX seems quieter than our 2002 ES300 that is a very quiet car. It is well known that the high noise level causes fatigue and makes drivers more irritable and less rational, which can lead to accidence. Here are car interior noise level data from internet for some well known cars, which are presented as car (idle dBA / 70 mph coasting dBA). 2003 Accord V6 EX (45 /68); 2004 Acura TL (40/70); Lexus 2006 GS430 V8 (44/ 69); 2005 MB E500 (44/67); 2005 BMW 745I (40/65); 2004 Lexus LS430(36/65); 2002 Infinite Q45 (40/68); 2006 Sonata LX(38/67). dBA is an engineering measurement how loud noise is; the higher dBA, the noisier it is. If a car has a noise level of 3 dBA higher than another car does, the former is about twice noisier than the later. 2004 Acura TL is about 4 times noisier than that of 2004 Lexus LS4300 at 70 mph because of a difference of 5 dBA. I could not find similar data for ES300. Only 2004 Lexus LS430 is better than 2006 Sonata LX. The ride, transmission, and handling of 2006 Sonata LX are excellent.

ctalk

Do you have one for the Camry?

Also, what site did you find those numbers? I'd like to learn more about other cars.

jojoe

Yes the Crystal Silver has a slight light blueish tint in it when in certain light.This colour was actually taken from one of the Mercedes models.My wife has it and with dark tint windows it looks great.

alpha01

Edmunds.com has updated their 07 Camry page:

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=108143

I think it looks fairly distinctive in the realm of Family sedans (though I'm sure I'll get flamed for saying so). Glad to see its been lowered an inch, effectively losing some of that tall greenhouse look of the last generation. Wheelbase is up fairly significantly (about 2 inches), with overall length unchanged, less overhang...

Allegedly, it'll be a 167 horse version of the current 2.4L (w/Dual VVTi) and the 3.5L....

~alpha

scape2

Problem with the 07 Camry is it doesn't look like anything new and refreshing. Back looks just like an Accord! Front looks like a Lexus or even the present Avalon.
Price.. this is what is going to put a dent or even a break into the Accords armor for sure. Option for option a Fusion/Sonata will cost thousands less than an Accord. Toyota, can afford to discount, cut costs ect to meet competition.. The future will only tell...
Case in point. Presently there is a dealer ad for an 06 Honda Civic DX 5spd for $13,900! This thing is stripped! Is this a good value? When comparing and seeing what you can get from other manufacturers such as Hyundai, Kia, Ford, Chevy, Mazda and even Toytoa.. doesn't look like it to me...

goodegg

Problem with the Camry? Yea right.

And others' price breaking Accord? The only way for these others to "beat" the Accord is by price. And for years the Accord just keeps on going as king of the hill. And people pay the price because they want the car. Hardly a break in the armor. Value is more than price bro.

backy

IMO the overall shape of the new Camry is an improvement over the old one, but it's one of those cases where several styling cues remind me of other cars. The grille reminds me of the Pacifica's (or any number of other cars--it's a pretty generic grille). The slit headlamps are pretty common, even reminiscent of those on the Sonata. The middle two-thirds of the car do remind me of the Accord. The bustle-back trunk is mindful of the BMW 7-Series (or even the Elantra). The tailights do follow those of the new Lexus cars, but one could say they are also copied from the Sonata (I think that's fair since many people said the Sonata stole its tailights from the Accord). All in all, I think the new Camry proves once again that there are only so many ways to bend steel and mold plastic on a car suited for the "family car" class.

mthielman

I just purchased a Sonata LX. THis is my third Hyundai. My first was a 97 Elantra. I got it at the time because it was cheap and met my needs. It turned out to be extremely reliable, I put 96,000 miles on it and did nothing but change the oil, tires and brakes. My good experience with that led me to buy an 02 Sonata base 4 cyl. This was not quite a reliable as the elentra, had a few small problems but nothing major and I put 87,000 miles on in 4 years. Yesterday I pulled the trigger on an LX sonata. It is such a solid car. Drives great, looks great, feels more substantial than my old sonata. Prior to my Hyundais I had owned a honda civc and an old subaru neither of those touched the reliability I got with the Huyndais. These a reliable cars. Each model they introduce gets better and better. Yes they typically cost less but 20k is still a significant chunk of money. I drove the Fusion and the Accord and liked the Sonata better. Hopefully it proved to be as reliable as the last two.

goodegg

I drove the Sonata LX and liked it too. Also drove the Fusion and was not too impressed with it, especially the lame shifter with no OD off. I would wager the Sonata will outsell the Fusion (all trims). Especially with the Sonata rebates. Maybe a Navi for the Sonata? The Accord is the only 1 of the 4 with this option.

210delray

I come back from Thanksgiving vacation and find about 60-odd posts of "mine's better than yours" interspersed with a few useful odds and ends, like details about the '07 Camry.

Fine use of bandwidth, guys!

backy

I think it will be difficult for Sonata to outsell Fusion, if only because Ford has a much bigger dealer network. Also if you count Milan in with the Fusion, I think there's no question it will outsell the Sonata.

Navi should be available on the '07 Camry when it shows up early next year, and there are strong rumors to the Sonata getting navi in the U.S. next year (it's already available in other countries). So that will just leave the Fusion w/o navi. It's not clear to me where navi would fit in the Fusion's dash.

goodegg

Aside from the POS business, I think the scrutiny each vehicle in this discussion goes through is very helpful to potential buyers of these models. You get real world impressions by everyday drivers that you can take to heart or not. This is the essence of this site. What are we supposed to do? Pat each other on the back and agree on everything discussed? If you're not impressed visit a different discussion or site. I like the banter. Very helpful since I'm buying within the next 6 months.

210delray

Well, there was an awful lot of excrement flying around with not much useful information being exchanged. Even the host had to intervene a couple of times.

I don't have a problem with a lively debate, but I do with a debate without much substance.

rdillier

Dear Giantkiller, et.al.:

Here's what you ACTUALLY wrote -- not what you "remember" you wrote:

"No theyre not. Theyre just telling the truth. Except probably for the new Sta Fe, all Hyundai's and Kia's , blanket statement, are POS."

Let's talk modifiers... You put the word "probably" before the word "for" which means that except for the new Santa Fe, all Hyundais and Kias (in your opinion) are less than sterling. You also included the term "blanket statement," which means you're referring to the entire brand.

Please do not state one thing, then try to deny it or say you were misquoted in the next sentence. That's too much like an everyday hack politician.

And yes, I HAVE put my money where my mouth is. Bought a 2005 Hyundai Tucson (I know, not part of this discussion) and will soon buy a new Sonata, primarily for safety features like ESC, ABS, Traction Control, Airbags all around (including the one operation the pedals and shifter). Styling isn't a big deal for me since I keep cars until they're wheezing their last. I've had bad experiences with American-badged cars, so I'll take the rising Hyundai quality. After four times buying American cars since 1980, I am now more loyal to my wallet than to the Big Three.

snakeweasel

I agree if you count in the Milan the Fusion?Milan will outsell Sonata simply by dealer network and brand name. However I think that if car shoppers actually do their homework the Fusion will not sell well in leu of the Milan.

As for Navi I will never get it in another car. 98% of the time I would not need it, they other 2% of the time I will use a map (only $5.00 as opposed to $2,000.00).

goodegg

The navi system is much more than a map. I think they're awesome and a great feature to have in your car considering how much time you spend in your car daily.

Sure you don't need one.........but you don't need a radio....you could whistle to yourself.....and actually you don't even need a car.....you could take the bus....or ride a bike....or walk.

snakeweasel

I really cannot justify spending the extra money for something that I would use once in a blue moon. Sure I spend a lot of time in my car but practically every place I go to I am familiar enough with the area that I can the place with ease. The one or two times a year that I would need it a map will do so it doesn't justify the expense.

Sure I don't need a radio but I use it 98% of the time I am in the car and the added expense that would be very little is worth it. And owning the car is more than worth it for it is more convenient and faster than a bike or even a bus. Can't make that claim for a $2,000.00 Navi system.

FWIW the first time I used a navi system was to try it out going from my house to a friends house. It gave me a 115 mile route that would have taken just over 1.5 hours and cost $1.35 in tolls over three interstates. That was opposed to a 78 mile 1.25 hour free trip over just one US highway.

backy

I agree with you, navi is not worth it to me. I do 95% of my driving on familiar city streets, and for those rare cases I need directions, there's MapQuest or similar, or my trusty street atlas (yes an honest-to-goodness paper map--how quaint!). The thing is, I need navi more on rental cars than on my own cars!

alpha01

Actually, NAV is available on the Camry SE V6 and XLE V6. Not on the 4s, but it is offered, since the 02 MY.

~alpah

goodegg

Great. Then I imagine the navi will be an option on the 07 Camry too. That car will raise the bar again, leaving behind the Fusion. Sonata will keep the rebates to undercut on price and Accord will hang tight as they ready for their redesign. The 06 Accord ain't that great looking IMO. Looks Civic-like. Nothing special.

alpha01

http://macleans.auto123.com/en/info/news/news,view.spy?artid=52700&pg=1

The above link is a Canadian based website. Looks like the Japan market Camry gets some neat stuff, like a full complement of airbags standard, including the Lexus IS-series twin chamber passenger side frontal airbag and side curtains. (I would expect the same for the US).

Should be interesting to see how this car handles, the link states that Toyota sought to significantly improve responses by recalibrating the suspension, steering, and widening the track substantially.

The only factual inaccuracy that I can see is the statement regarding front and rear brake sizes- which is most definitely erroneous. Still, I do hope (and expect) that discs will be standard all around.

~alpha

jrock65

A relative is looking to buy a midsize sedan, and she has a strict $21,000 vehicle purchase price limit. She's narrowed her choices down to the Sonata LX and the Accord EX auto. Both cars are about the same street price (the Sonata LX a bit lower).

Sonata advantages:

V6
Leather
Stability control
Traction control
Auto-dim mirror
Heated seats
Auto climate control
Better warranty
Some other knick-knacks

Honda advantages:

Moonroof
Better mileage

She is having a tough time deciding because she realizes that she gets a lot more for her money with the Sonata, but is more comfortable with Honda reputation and quality.

Any thoughts?

goodegg

If she's more comfortable with the Honda reputation, then there's the answer. Otherwise she'll drive around the next 5 years wishing she had the Honda.

But the Sonata is an attractive lure in this price range. My only trepidation with the Sonata is this is a first model year product from a new plant. I'd wait for the next MY to arrrive and allow the kinks to get worked out of the 06. Plus I think the warranty thing is overrated. There are numerous exclusions in any warranty, as well as prorations, that render most of them toothless in the later years of their promise.

You could give her a few extra bucks so she can get an EXV6.....