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Hyundai Sonata vs. Honda Accord vs. Toyota Camry vs. Ford Fusion
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Comments
In a normal yearly cycle, the incentives at the end of the year are very robust. Two things are mainly going on:
1. All the new current year inventory is about to become instantly stale. In 2006, does someone want to really say I" drive a new 2005 Whatever-it-is".
2. Dealers are making room for new models that will soon but out. Better to get rid of the inventory before the first of the new year than wait till after and then deal with a new model being advertised and competing with your old model. Remember the G6 fiasco the first couple months. THey had big incentives on the Grand Am, so people were cross shopping the two. No dealer wants that. So the manufacturers push year end drives.
Interestingly, if you find models that are not in demand, and don't care that you are driving a 2005 in 2006, you may sneak away with a great price after the first of the year. The Legacy is running into this problem right now. There is going to be serious deals on 2005s soon. Currently there is $2,000 on the hood. That was introduced in late fall. Late fall through the end of winter, incentives have a way of creeping up.
Then again you and I could be missing each other if we are looking at different model years. I am not completely disagreeing with you. All I am saying is that working as a car broker and knowing the dealers (one works next to me in my new life as a financial analyst)this has been the case.
This board does give one the itch to buy. I'll bet your next car is the Sonata LX considering your obvious love for Hyundais.
I considered the EXV6 Accord hard but just splurged for the 06 Acura TL. I love Honda.
Does anyone love Ford? Hasn't Ford burnt a bunch of bridges that no incentive or 'red tag' will overcome?
I am really up in the air as to what and when I will buy. I am very interested in the new crop of small cars that is coming out next year: Accent, Fit, Versa, Yaris. Also the '07 Elantra looks intriguing. Even the new Santa Fe looks like a winner, but it would take quite a vehicle and price to get me into a SUV. The Sonata is still my top choice in a mid-sized sedan, and if there are huge incentives early next year, that is the way I might go. If I could pick up a GLS for under $15k + T&L, that would be hard to resist. But lately I have been thinking about getting a "bridge" car, like a used Elantra, Accent, Civic or the like, and drive it for 1-2 years until all those new cars I am interested in are shaken out (and the crash tests are published and the initial buying panic has subsided).
Decisions, decisions.
I flew from CT to south FL in April to save over $1500 on purchase price of '05 Sonata GLS SV. Net savings after plane and driving back about $1200. Local dealer, as you know, will still service car.
I will be in Las Vegas for 9 days this month (business). I toyed with the idea of looking at the dealers there, who offer incredible deals on the Internet. But their lowest prices require the trade of another Hyundai, which is impractical for me. I can get good deals on Hyundais here in the Twin Cities, which has several dealers, plus in March there will probably be the annual "Auto Show" rebate of $500. So I question whether it would be worth my time to go all the way to PA to buy a car. They would have to do at least $1000 under invoice before rebates, plus not do the "advertising fee" thing, to make it worth my while I think. Is that possible?
I have always had this approach. most of my new car purchases were when the next years models have come out. Sometimes dealers will practically give them away just to clear out the old merchandise.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Oh I don't know, I have owned Fords before and with the exception of my very first (bought used and problems most likely was the result of poor maintenance by the previous owner) all of them performed very well. I will seriously consider the Milan for my next car purchase.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Check their site. It may be worth your while, maybe not.
I have owned several Fords, as well as a number of other brands. The prior Fords have generally been solid and well-built cars, if somewhat boring, and they all did very well from me. Some of the Japanese cars I've owned have been great (Mazda), some have been middling (Subaru) and some have not been so good at all (ahem, Nissan).
There is no magic here with the country of origin. I think it really comes down to individual products, engineering and build quality that a company is producing at a particular time, not ten years ago. The Fusion and Milan strike me as being very well designed and executed cars. I love the way they look and perform, and actually prefer their dynamics to the competition (like the much-touted Honda Accord). So I will definately think about getting another Ford.
Cheers!
Sidebar: How long will Ford wait to finish this engine? In 2003 they had planned to put this 3.5 into the Freestyle and Five Hundred. It is now 2006, and not one Ford has this engine in it yet...Just thinking out loud, and if anyone has info on this, post it please!
Back to the Rebates...
Hyundai has the Ford beaten in quality FWIW and is pretty much the price leader, with GLS V-6s in Birmingham going for under $19,000 now. Throw in the fact that Hyundai's warranty is better than Ford's and the dealer network is steadily growing. Ford has to do something to keep up! I don't deny the fact that the Fusion is a big leap for Ford, but it isn't a big enough jump AHEAD of the benchmark to make rebate pricing a thing of the past. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see V-6 Fusions for $17,990 in The Birmingham Newsby this fall, to be honest.
Put me down for membership in the Honda/Acura club, but man, there are so many nice cars out nowadays you almost can't go wrong buying anything.
and Accord and Camry sold about 33,000 and 25,000units...
Camry: 33,324
Accord: 26,370
Sonata: 20,853 :surprise:
Altima: 18,448
Fusion: 7,568
Milan: 2,111
2005 Total:
Camry: 431,703
Accord: 369,293
Altima: 255,371
Sonata: Anyone have the numbers?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Sonata is closing the gap, but we wil have to see what happens with the new Camry's & Accord's.
Don't forget the Sonata year end figures include 5 to 6 months of the "old" style, like the one I bought in April plus any additional '05's sold unti they were gone.
The '06 didn't really start to take off until sometime around Sept. I would expect any new model or completely revised model would take a few months for sales to ramp up. To be fair to the Fusion, give it another month or so to see how sales are doing.
For the record, I love my Honda (caveat: I also love my work driver, a 1993 Saturn SL2. It was my car through college and in the words of the 1982 Chevette ads, it works). But when it comes time to buy my new toy in a couple years, I will happily test drive a Hyundai (assuming that management has not, by that point, recognized my genius and promoted me to a position that allows me to buy an overpriced European sports sedan).
May the best car win. Puffing out one's chest in defense of a brand for no other reason than to justify one's purchase, at the expense of rational analysis, is a bit juvenile.
Plus, who knows what will be available from Hyundai, Honda, Toyota, GM, Ford etc in a couple of years. (look at how quickly SUV's took a dive.)
I think you're right on with this. Sonata has found some footing in a sector that has obviously evolved and matured over the years and is now full of choices. But in a couple years the market could be changing towards crossovers or another SUV type, or something we don't yet know about. The baby boomers took us through this sales growth in the CamCord thing, but with their aging and other changing demographics of car buyers, the market can quickly change.
I can't imagine Honda and Toyota are banking on this market to carry the companies for the next 15 years, as Hyundai seems to be doing. The world is changing.
Ford and GM could actually be players then.
Why do you say that? Hyundai introduced an all-new SUV a little over a year ago. They are rolling out an all-new Santa Fe and a large SUV this year, plus a six-passenger crossover vehicle and a minivan (on the Sonata platform and with the Azera's engine), and are rumored to have a pickup in the wings. They just brought out an all-new subcompact and will introduce the hatchback version and hybrid variant this year. An all-new compact sedan is due this fall. Clearly, Hyundai is not banking on the mid-sized sedan market to carry them for the next 15 years.
Scion, Fit, Yaris, Versa. These are directed right at this group. It's also a whole new way of doing business as well.
A loaded base model but everything else is accessories.. plug-n-play if you will. Actually when this Gen gets to 'family building age' their needs will change again... vans, family sedans, crossovers, hybrids, ultra FE.
I don't see any Accents around here. Hyundai hopes to be another Toyota but the road is long, and a couple good models won't sustain them. Altho the SK government will probably come in again and bail em out.
It might be due to the fact that the Elantra will be getting a makeover and that people may be waiting for the next generation.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Also, I find it interesting that theres all this talk of the sales figures. For me, Ive said it before, and I'll repeat it- since that doesnt break out fleet from individual sales, those numbers are intersting but dont provide the whole picture. Sure the Sonata is doing well, but I felt I saw a lot of them in the rental lots on my recent travels to Baltimore, Birmingham, Dallas, and Houston... PLUS, I'm litterally stunned at the incentive level Hyundai is already using on this vehicle. Its a great car, I wish the company wouldnt do this (and keep down already marginal resale values).
~alpha
I saw two Sonata's with the Enterprise sticker on the back. I saw one on the highway, and one in my neighborhood.
I wouldn't call me a Ford "lover" But I too have owned Ford products and they have all served me well. I now own an 01 Escape XLT 4WD V6 with almost 70,000 trouble free miles. So, I will go look at the Fusion. I have no reason not to. But, I will not limit my choices.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
It looks like Hyundai is in a can't win situation in this discussion. If they put too much on the Sonata, they are accused of focusing too much on the mid-sized car segment. If they pour lots of new designs into the marketplace (which they are actually doing), they are accused of producing vehicles no one wants.
Here is a question for you: should we accuse Honda of focusing too much on small cars (not a big market), since their only new model during 2006 will be the Fit, which will sell in low volumes at a low price?
I don't see any Accents around here. Hyundai hopes to be another Toyota but the road is long, and a couple good models won't sustain them. Altho the SK government will probably come in again and bail em out."
Elantra and Santa Fe are in their last year. Accent just came out.
Yeah, considering how they've been doing in the past few years, it looks like the Korean gov't is going to have to bail them out. Sales went from 164,190 in 1999 to only 455,012 in 2005. And redesigned models are just beginning to role out:
2006 Accent
2006 Sonata
2006 Azera
2007 Elantra
2007 Santa Fe
2007 EN
2007 Entourage
Man, the future looks terrible for this company. Global sales are really stinking too.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4574646.stm
The Sonata is an important car, but only part of the puzzle.
You can pat Hyundai on the back all you want - they're improving - but their negative reputation will haunt them. Look at all these incentives. Can't they stand on their on laurels?
Anyways, the SK gov't never "took over" or bailed out Hyundai. The SK gov't did order the Hyundai conglomerate to break up and divest some holdings.
In any case, government's try to help out their own companies all the time. An example would be the Japanese gov't artificially holding down the value of the yen to help car and other exports.
Here you go Hyundai, "pat pat pat". Good job.
Less established companies charge lower prices whether via incentives or lower MSRP, until they become more established. The first Japanese cars were cheap as hell.
Its the other way around. Hyundai used to run the government - probably still does to a large degree. But Hyundai's obvious major governmental support is a plus for car buyers since the prices on a Hyundai are almost laughable compared to CamCord. No wonder Sonata sales are up. Seems inevitable that the prices will go up, but for now Sonata is a heck of a value.
The Sonata is a better car than a Hyundai of a decade ago. Too bad it's just plain BORING looking. But the 06 Accord ain't much better looking. The Accord's interior is high def, but the exterior re-style? PAddles / clear ! Honda's going backwards in the exterior style department with the new Accord - is this the same company that cranked out the great looking Civic?
(Also tested next month will be the Passat, as well as Dodge Charger and Chevy Impala... hopefully in multiple versions of those as well).
~alpha
Similar to Audis styling cues, maybe a bit on the vanilla side but a nice overall package~but that's just my opinion (still not bored, lol)
I just bought a 2006 Elantra GLS 4-door sedan for my wife as a Christmas gift for a little over $13,500 after tax, title, and license, and although it's the older platform, it's also debugged and thoroughly tested. Actually, there are some advantages to buying the last year of a production model. Most, if not all, of the kinks were worked out years ago. And, like Backy, I personally like the interior and dash of the Elantra - so what if some consider it dated!
The next step in our plan is to purchase a Sonata next Fall or early Winter. I've test driven all models and engine combinations, rented a GLS V6 from Hertz, and I would love to own the V6. But, I think I would prefer the Inline-4's better fuel economy and cheaper maintenance over the long haul. Any V-designed engine is a royal pain to work on compared to an Inline-4 design. If you don't keep a car very long, or have the dealer perform all of the maintenance, the aforementioned statement is rather moot.
I spent over 9 months looking, driving, and scrutinizing Honda, Toyota, Nissan, and Hyundai. The decision to go with Hyundai, especially the Sonata decision, was not based on price, rather overall value for the money (a difference), but most importantly, the Hyundai's fit-and-finish, panel matching, consistencing of seam gaps, i.e. everything that points to overall quality construction, is just as good on the Sonata as the Japanese makes. If you set an Accord, Camry, Altima, and Sonata next to each other, and carefully critique the interior and exterior fit and finish on a weighted average basis, the Sonata doesn't take a back seat to any of them, with the exception of the high-end Accords.
This is my first trip in my 2006 Accord EX 4-cyl Automatic, and wanted to share the results. I am impressed, as I expected under sticker results given the speed (75+ mph), temps (40 or so), and relatively fresh (2,500 miles) engine.
I know this might be a bore to most, but it proves to me that I did the right thing getting the 4-cyl model, as 166 hp is more than enough to zip past dump trucks dropping rocks!
thegrad
PS: I managed 32 mpg around town, where the speed is generally 50mph or so with several traffic lights. I made sure to fill up right near the interstate to determine strict highway mileage.
than a Sonata GLS 4 because you get a few more miles
to the gallon? Or did you just pull up the wrong forum?
This is my first trip in my 2006 Accord EX 4-cyl Automatic, and wanted to share the results. I am impressed, as I expected under sticker results given the speed (75+ mph), temps (40 or so), and relatively fresh (2,500 miles) engine.
I know this might be a bore to most, but it proves to me that I did the right thing getting the 4-cyl model, as 166 hp is more than enough to zip past dump trucks dropping rocks!
thegrad
PS: I managed 32 mpg around town, where the speed is generally 50mph or so with several traffic lights. I made sure to fill up right near the interstate to determine strict highway mileage.
Hmmm, are you trying to justify paying 8000 bucks more
than a Sonata GLS 4 because you get a few more miles
to the gallon? Or did you just pull up the wrong forum?
Noone is trying to justify anything thank you very much. I'd like you to point out in my post where I mentioned Hyundai's mileage, or any other car for that matter. I was just mentioning a merit of the Accord 4-cyl versus the V-6. Seems like you are eagerly looking for a bone to pick with a Honda owner. Well, this Honda owner isn't looking for a fight with a Hyundai owner, sorry to let you down. I was merely stating that the Accord has mileage figures worth looking into, and the EPA figures are DEFINITELY achievable in it.
Start a fight with someone else, I have no justifying to do, I'm perfectly happy. More road trips to come!
PS: I'm not sure where your $8,000 more that I supposedly paid comes in. My car was $21,400 OTD. Can a Sonta be had in GLS form with 6-disc CD-changer, power moonroof (standard features on my EX) et.al. for $13,400?
The only color I like on the new Sonata is black. It looks great in black I think.
"But the 06 Accord ain't much better looking. The Accord's interior is high def, but the exterior re-style? PAddles / clear ! Honda's going backwards in the exterior style department with the new Accord - is this the same company that cranked out the great looking Civic?"
The Civic just came out. The Accord is a few years old despite the 2006 refresh. To go further into it Honda went bland with the 01 Civic and went way too plain with the 03 Accord restyling. They hit it right with the new Civic Coupe though!
What about the Mazda 6 which the Fusion is based on? Its in its fourth year of bodystyle.
Why else are people buying Hyundais? Cause they're priced much lower than the competition. If they were priced at what the others in this sector are priced at then they wouldn't sell nearly as many. Look at the rebates. Panel matching? Even my employee's Suzuki Reno has good panel matching.
My point is the majority of Hyundai purchasers are attracted mainly by the lower price. I was.
Maybe you are using the terms "price" and "value for the money" interchangably. If people just want to buy on price they can buy a stripper base model of any brand. If they want the most value for the money they pay, many will opt for a Sonata. [A friend is quite interested in the Azera. I told him he should take a serious look at a loaded Sonata LX for about $7K less. Sonata obviously has a lower price, but value for the buck is subjective.]
Don't we do this in our purchases every day? One store sells a can of soup for $1.50, a store 50 feet away sells the same can of soup for $1.20. Which store would you go to to buy the can of soup? If both stores sell at $1.50, the store which had been lower in price would obviously lose sales to its, formerly higher priced competitor.