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Hyundai Sonata vs. Honda Accord vs. Toyota Camry vs. Ford Fusion

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Comments

  • littlezlittlez Posts: 167
    backy:

    I don't care about Ford's list, I told you they were not stellar. Try reading with your eyes open next time.

    Just about every major problem on 1999/2000 Sonata's is a powertrain problem. Just because it's not a recall, doesn't mean it isn't a major problem.

    Give me a break, engine replacements on both the 4 and 6 cylinder and tranny replacements on both the manual and automatic. Those sound kind of major to me.

    Get over it!
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,710
    There's no need for insults just because you don't like to read facts related to a topic you brought up.

    I could suggest that you read with your eyes open also. There was no engine replacement mentioned at all for the Sonata. Do you like making things up? That seems to be a habit with you, starting with making up details on JD Power reports. There were five problems mentioned in all for the 1999-2000 Sonata. Two had to do with the powertrain. That's 40%--far from "just about all".

    Also, you haven't shown any evidence that these problems mentioned on the Consumer Guide are "major problems" as you originally asserted. We don't know how many cars were affected by these problems. There might have been 100 transmissions replaced. We don't know. One of the problems mentioned was a CD player that needed to be reset by removing a connector in the fuse panel for ten seconds. Another problem caused gas pumps to click off prematurely. Are these "major problems" too?

    Maybe you could get over trying to make more out of these kinds of problems than is there. No one said that the Sonata is flawless. It's also not the reliability disaster that you seem to think it is, and in fact compares favorably to the other makes in this discussion for reliability.
  • cxccxc Posts: 122
    I am glad that neither your 2002 Accord nor your 2000 Camry has been one of the problematic vehicles in the MSN current statistics for more than one million Accord or Camry.
  • littlezlittlez Posts: 167
    "You haven't shown any evidence that these problems mentioned are major problems" and "two had to do with powertrain" and "there was no engine replacement"

    The website mentions a problem with the 4 and 6 cylinder engines and a problem with the automatic and manual transmission. That is four powertrain problems.

    Here are quotes from the website:

    On the 19996 Sonata Automatic problem, "Hyundai was replacing the tranmissions under warranty."

    On the 1999/2000 Sonata 2.4L engines: "Replacement required."

    That's all, I'm not lying or making it up.

    Also, if you want to do a little more research, call up several Hyundai dealers and ask about the V6 engine replacemetn problem and the manual transmission problem. They are real.

    Also, I never said the Sonata was flawless and I never said is was a disaster. Those are your words.

    Have a good day!!

    Signing off!
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,710
    I have done my research, thanks. Maybe you would like to do a little more, however...

    Do you really consider a canister purge valve and a mass airflow sensor part of the powertrain? Well, I don't. I think of powertrain as the engine and transmission, differential, that kind of stuff--not emissions stuff. I can kind of understand the MAF sensor being considered part of the powertrain, but not the canister purge valve. Anyway, when they say "replacement required" it's not an engine replacement--it's the replacement of the canister purge valve. Why would you think the entire engine would be replaced because of a problem in a canister purge valve?

    I don't dispute that these problems are real. But what the problems amount to is this:

    * One problem on '99s with the CD player that was fixed by removing a connector in the fuse box for ten seconds. Not a biggie, would you agree?

    * One problem with auto transmissions on '99s that requires a replacement transmission under warranty. This is obviously a significant problem, but there is no indication how many vehicles were affected--10 or 10,000? So we don't know the affect on Hyundai financially, in supporting the warranty claims. That was the focus of your point about Hyundai's warranty being a financial drain on the company (paraphrasing), correct?

    * One problem on '99-'00s with a restriction in the vapor recovery line that causes gas pumps to click off prematurely. Is this a major problem--really costly for Hyundai to fix? Doesn't seem to be, to me. No engine or transmission replacement needed here.

    * One problem on '99-'00s with the stock canister purge valve that causes hard starting or rough idle on 2.4L engines, and may require replacement of the canister purge valve--not the engine. Doesn't sound to me like a huge problem either.

    * One problem with manual transmissions on '99-'00 Sonatas that requires installation of a "kit" to fix--not a replacement transmission. Since manual transmission Sonatas are rare in the U.S., this also should not be a big drain on Hyundai financially.

    * One problem (and recall) related the MAF sensor on 2.5L '99-'00 Sonatas, which required only the rerouting of the MAF sensor's wiring harness to correct. No new parts, no engine or transmission replacement, no drain on Hyundai financially.

    * One problem (and recall) related to the side airbag wiring on '99-'01 Sonatas, which was fixed by more securely attaching the air bag wiring harness and connectors to the seat frame. No new parts (maybe some fasteners), no engine or transmission replacement, no drain on Hyundai financially.

    So including the two recall actions, I still count two powertrain-related problems, one which required a transmission replacement, and no engine replacements. But I don't include mass airflow sensors and canister purge valves as "powertrain." Two out of seven is not "almost all" in my book. Even if we include the MAF sensor as part of the powertrain, that's only 3 out of 7.

    Since this is a comparison discussion, I invite you to do a similar analysis on the problems for the same years of Ford, Honda, and Toyota mid-sized cars and see what conclusions you draw about the reliability of Hyundais in general and the Sonata in particular, compared to the likes of the Contour, Taurus, Accord, and Camry.
  • Just as an FYI:

    Here is the government web site that allows anyone to lookup vehicle recalls. If you use it to look up recalls for a specific year vehicle, it will show you the recalls, what the recall was for, and the number of that vehicle involved in the recall.

    SaferCar.gov Recall Site ;)
  • rcc8179rcc8179 Posts: 131
    1998 – 2002 Accord has significant problems with transmission/driveline and moderate problems with engines.

    I can't speak for the other vehicles you mentioned in your post, but the transmission problem with the Accord affected between ONE and TWO percent of the vehicles. Over 98 percent of owners had NO problems with their transmissions. Now certainly, when you sell 350-400k per year, that 1-2% is a sizable number. But like everything else, those with problems will speak up much more than those without problems. People generally don't visit discussion boards just to write "I have a XXXXX and I have no problems--I love it and just wanted everyone to know!" Some things get blown out of proportion.
  • goodegggoodegg Posts: 905
    People generally don't visit discussion boards just to write "I have a XXXXX and I have no problems--I love it and just wanted everyone to know!"

    I have a 2002 Accord and I have no problems -- I love it and just wanted everyone to know.

    There.
  • Did research for months & months, test drove everything in the 20K price range, Volvo S40 too small, Lincoln Zephyr (drove like my father's old Taurus just shifted 6 times instead of 4) , Dodge Charger (not impressed) Anyhow, had excellent service from a 2001 Hyundai Elantra even though it was a first model year, made several trips to Seattle with it and it did a better job than the Infiniti I traded in for it. I admit I was a little leary when I bought the 2001, but yesteray bought a new Sonata LX and feel very confident in the purchase. It drove, sat, looked better than the Accord and Camry I had test drove also, loved the dealer. Enjoy the car. Much of the discussion has been about recalls & such on previous years, Had more problems with an Infiniti G-20 than I did with the first Hyundai. Time will tell....So :shades:

    Everyone who has had a bad experience with a car will hate that car brand, no problems = love the car brand. Hopefully will be lucky again. Cheers!

    Happy Holidays!

    MAF
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I have a 1996 Accord with 155,000 miles on it. One fan motor replaced, tires and a battery (and regular maintenence). That's it. I just love it and wanted everyone to know.

    There (did I do that right?)

    thegrad
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,710
    Looks like you actually peeked into the $30k range, with the Zephyr. Hope you enjoy your new Sonata LX.

    I agree with you that personal experience with cars will tend to dictate what we think about the brands. I've had positive experiences with my Hondas, Toyotas, Nissans, Dodges (Caravans), and Hyundais, and negative on Chevy and Ford/Mercury. So guess which brands I would tend to buy again without hesitation? Also, I think dealer experience has a lot to do with it. I had wonderful service for 13 years on my two Caravans, and I think that had a lot to do with my positive ownership experience on the vans--even though they had more than their share of recalls and other glitches. The dealer service on my Mercury, though, was worse than the problems on the car--which is to say it was pretty darn bad. I did get fed up with my original Hyundai dealer, for service ineptitude and attitude, but am pretty happy with the dealer I use for service now.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,710
    I am really impressed that in 10 years and 155k miles, you are still on the original brakes, exhaust system, and other parts that tend to wear out on a car, with your Accord. That car must be built like a tank! Do you do a lot of highway driving?
  • goodegggoodegg Posts: 905
    Let me ask you. How do you feel about the driver's seat in the Sonata LX? I checked one out again yesterday and confirmed my initial impression that the seat bottom won't tilt up enough. This is the only car that seems to have this "problem".

    I like the Sonata but find it hard to accept the seat's attributes. Gotta sit in it every day for the next 4-5 years. Wondering about your perceptions.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    It was driven in rush hour interstate driving for the first 120,000 miles of its life, about 80 mph 70 miles round trip. new brakes were required at 135,000 miles for the front, original ones on the rear. Original exhaust system just inspected when the second timing belt was put on. Forgive me for failing to mention this, I realize brakes aren't "routine" maintenence, but in my mind, I had appperntly put it that way! it has had one tune-up, one new set of spark plugs, and is on its third set of tires (68k on original michelins, 70k on Coopers, now on Goodyear Integrity). The only fault with the car was the fan motor failure, something the dealership said they don't see often, but it cost over 300 dollars...not cheap, but the only repair due to malfunction of the car (happened at about 140k miles). it has a few more rattles than it did when new (of course), but it is still tight enough to feel incredibly safe, even though my new 2006 is world's ahead of it in power, room, and interior quiet.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,710
    That is still pretty darn good, just new front brakes. How is the body holding up? Although I suppose in Birmingham you don't need to worry about the effects of road salt like I do. :( I see quite a few '94-'97 Accords driving around my town. I almost bought one, a '95 LX Coupe, but leased a Mystique instead. In hindsight, that was a Mystake. Who knows, I might still be driving that Accord coupe!
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Road salt is not an issue here, like you said! No rust at all; in fact, the clearcoat is still fully intact, with only minor paint fade (parked outside all its life). Rear brakes are drums, so they of course last longer, and with little stop-and-go driving, they should last a while more. New shocks are next in line, as a have one with a rattle now.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    And is owned by the nephew of a friend. Was originally owned by a person who put mostly road miles on it.
    Toyota vehicles are well respected for being very reliable and having outstanding longevity. ;)
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    1987 Camry with 460,000 miles on the odometer and is owned by the nephew of a friend. Was originally owned by a person who put mostly road miles on it.
    Toyota vehicles are well respected for being very reliable and having outstanding longevity.


    Wow, that's the second most mileage I've ever heard of on a car, second to something I read in Motor Trend, 1.1 Million in ten years (a carrier service person's car)
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,722
    I realize brakes aren't "routine" maintenence,

    I don't know, most people I know regard brakes as routine maintenance. That is unless you have to replace rotors (or drums) or do something else to the system like replace the master cylinder. But brake pads are a normal wear and tear item that needs to be replaced regularly.

    The sign said "No shoes, no shirt, no service", it didn't say anything about no pants.

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,722
    Back when I was in high school a friend of mine was given a 5 year old Volvo from his uncle. Twenty some years later he still has it with a little over 600k on it.

    The sign said "No shoes, no shirt, no service", it didn't say anything about no pants.

  • cxccxc Posts: 122
    Here are kings of long-run cars:

    Gregorios Sachinidis, a Greek taxi driver who holds the known record of 2,852,000 miles in his 1976 Mercedes-Benz 240D.
    (URL)
    It is not difficult to find MB with one million miles.

    Irv Gordon's 1.8 Million Mile Volvo
    (URL)
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    Accord to Edmunds' TCO, the Accord has lower maintenance costs and lower insurance costs than the Sonata. Anyone know why this is so?
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,710
    I don't know how insurance is figured, but may have something to do with the fact that the IIHS tests aren't out yet on the '06 Sonata, and the previous Sonata didn't do that great compared to the Accord.

    Hard to see the maintenance difference, especially since the Sonata has 2 more years and 24k more miles of basic warranty and 40k more miles (and five more years, but irrelevant for Edmund's TCO) of powertrain warranty.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    The cost of maintenance difference is based on routine maintenance. Cost of repairs is a separate category.

    As far as I know, the Accord recommends service at every 7500 miles for normal driving and 3750 miles for aggressive driving. The Sonata recommends service every 3750 miles. Could the difference be due to Edmunds calculating based on the 7500 recommendation?

    Or do Hyundai dealers charge more for maintenance than Honda dealers?
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,710
    Hyundai recommends service every 3750 (?) miles only due to "severe service".

    I doubt Hyundai dealers charge more for maintenance than Honda dealers. I've been to both and they are both pretty high. However, I usually pay less than $20 for an oil change (with a coupon discount) at my Hyundai dealer and just paid $67 for the 15,000 mile service on my '04 Elantra (including a coupon for a free oil change) which included extra charges for replacing some light bulbs and the air filter (recommended at 15k for "severe service"). That doesn't seem high to me. The Sonata should be similar.
  • goodegggoodegg Posts: 905
    I'd rather spend the extra $10 at the Quick Changer and be out in 30 minutes than spend 2 hours in WalMart. Does that mean my maintenance cost is higher than yours? Probably.

    PM is money well spent. Thats about all you'll need to do with a Honda (unpaid endorsement). Or Toyota. My Taurus always seemed to have some kind of nagging issue - but not too bad a car overall. I'd rather pay more, have the better resale value, and enjoy a better car for the 4-5 years I'm in it. CamCords deliver that.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,710
    I'd rather pay more, have the better resale value, and enjoy a better car for the 4-5 years I'm in it. CamCords deliver that.

    Well, Camcords definitely deliver on the first one (pay more), may or may not deliver on the second (too early to tell with the '06 Sonata what the resale will be in 4-5 years vs. the '06 Accord and Camry), and as for better car, that is true for you and your needs but seems highly debatable given the range of opinions expressed here and in third-party reviews about the three cars.

    Not quite sure where the Wal-Mart comment came from. I always get my Hyundais serviced at the dealer. In and out in an hour even for a 15k service plus a little more. Why go to a quickie-lube when I can get it done by people who are liable for the warranty on the car for no more money?
  • goodegggoodegg Posts: 905
    Not being anti Hyundai, anti Sonata, or anti WalMArt. Just my normal pro Accord. PM costs what it costs. I don't think one (good) car costs more than another.

    I do know the CamCords always hold their value. That won't change.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    Camry resale isn't that great. Accord and Altima resale is notably higher.

    Probably because the Camry has so many fleet sales.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    People are smart. Vehicles used in fleets or rentals are often abused and it is difficult to know if the vehicle was a fleet or rental. :sick:
This discussion has been closed.