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Hyundai Sonata vs. Honda Accord vs. Toyota Camry vs. Ford Fusion

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Comments

  • I live near a Hyundai/Mitsu dealer here in NEPA. The Hyundai dealer here recently expanded his lot to hold the truckloads of Sonatas they are bringing in.
    It doesn't matter what one says about fleet sales vs. retail sales, but at the end of 2006 when over 150,000 Sonatas are sold vs. about 100,000 in 2005...and the Sonata is the #3 import sedan (0ver the Altima), well, the dispute is ended and Hyundai has made the Sonata a contender. They also have billion$ in sales to boot.
  • MT, Car and Driver.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,710
    I have the C/D review, and I can't find the negative comments on the design of the HVAC/audio/dashboard. There were some negative comments on the pointers on the gauges, but I don't see how that relates to HVAC/audio/dashboard design.
  • That this 07 Camry SE found in all the pictures was a MERE 30 MINS from my apartment.

    That Camry was at Toyota of Greenville! I was just there last week!

    I can't believe i missed out!!!! Darn.
  • oldjoeoldjoe Posts: 132
    I love it..."according to the people from the nether lands, cars with ESC have a 35% less accident rate"....hahgahhahahahahahahahahah! That is the stupidest quote of any group I have ever seen. "Cars with MaryJane in ther cabin result in less than 35% getting pulled over by the fuzz"....hahahaha! Funny day here on the farm!
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,722
    I always wondered how you can quantify things that never happen. And how you know that other things didn't contribute to things not happening.

    The sign said "No shoes, no shirt, no service", it didn't say anything about no pants.

  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    I can think of something stupid in this forum, but that quote wasnt the first to come to mind.

    ~alpha
  • Cars with MaryJane in ther cabin result in less than 35% getting pulled over by the fuzz"....hahahaha! Funny day here on the farm!

    How much of that have you smoked today, oldjoe? :shades: :P
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    We need to get back to the subjects here and leave these insinuations out of here - please.
  • ontopontop Posts: 279
    Sitting here looking out the window into the parking lot and I see Civic, Expedition, Accord, Accord, Explorer, Accord, Civic, 325, Accord, Pilot, 300M, Avalon, 330, and can't see any further down the line.

    Do people love Hondas around here or what ? Honda's got such a great reputation that it'll take a huge sustained effort from say, Hyundai, to put a dent in it's share.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    We are comparing the Accord to the Sonata, the Camry and the Fusion. This isn't the place to debate how people view Honda the manufacturer as a whole. Thanks.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    I don't want to remove posts, but I just removed one and will remove any others that do not stick to the subject. We have a News & Views board where all kinds of topics are underway and that's where you folks who want to debate the manufacturers' overall outlooks need to be looking. Here we are simply comparing the Sonata, the Accord, the Camry and the Fusion. That's all we're talkin' 'bout. :-)

    Thanks, I appreciate your cooperation going forward.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Rumor has it that Toyota is developing an 8-speed automatic for its upcoming Lexus LS line, and is likely to be passed down to Toyotas, albeit later, after the "new-technology premium" has been milked by the top-line Lexus sedan. I remember the days of the three-speed automatic being fairly common, and I've only been a car-nut since I was 8 (I'm now 18), so what is to come in the next ten years? I will go out on a limb, and say that the CVT-type of transmission with pre-programmed shift detents for manumatic shifting will be much more common. Any thoughts on the issue?

    PS: I believe I read that Lexus will have the 8-speed in the new "10-Best" issue of Car and Driver, for those interested in the full article.

    thegrad
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    That's very interesting, but not what we are discussing here. It's another line of conversation that should be pursued on our News & Views board.

    Please folks - we need to get back to comparing the Sonata, the Accord, the Camry and the Fusion - or we need to wrap this up if we're done with that subject line.
  • goodegggoodegg Posts: 905
    Accords are popular here too(duh). The 07 Camry should spur Camry sales. Wonder if they're having a lull in sales as they phase out the 06s. The 07 Camry board is full of info on what seems to be a great car.

    Been considering the Sonata LX but I think I'll wait til the new Camry comes out and compare. I think its got way better styling. Sonata is mechanically good but the styling suffers.

    The 06 Accord needs updating.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    The "rumor has it" post was made to show advances that Toyota is making, perhaps starting a question: How many gears does the best family sedan need? Maybe compare trannies of these cars? I know the Fusion leads the class with a 6-speed Auto, while the rest make do with 5-speeders (some 4-cyl models have 4-speeds). The Accord leads the pack in the small world of manual tranny family cars, with an available 6-speed manual V-6 sedan, making it the acceleration leader by far (under 6 sec to 60mph). I was hoping to incite such a discussion since things had slowed a little, here.

    Thanks for consideration, and for leaving my post,

    thegrad
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    these next 3 weeks are nearly the best selling weeks for Camry's in the whole year. We are loaded to the gills ready for the Christmas rush.. LOL
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,598
    How many gears does an A/T need? My '05 Sonata has 4 and cruises at about 1700 to 2200 rpm, depending on terrain, when driving about 40 mph. It doesn't shift into 4th until going 35 mph with moderate pedal pressure. On a level road it will hold 4th gear down to about 1500 rpm.

    The extra gears, in any of these cars, don't seem to have much value except for high speed cruising. At lower speeds, extra gears may be counter-productive, causing the engine to lug in order to save minimal rpm's in an attempt to get a fractional improvement in mpg.

    For local driving, maybe 5 speeds is better than four, maybe Fusion's 6 speeds is better than 5. It all depends on how the tranny is matched to the engine. I wouldn't want my car to change gears everytime my speed changed by 5 mph in local driving. At highway speed an extra gear for every 10 mph could be nice.

    My last stick shift was a '71 Volvo 1800--4 speed + overdrive. Had to drive it at at least 2000 rpm, otherwise it would lug and foul the plugs. 4th gear @ 50 MPH was 2000 rpm, overdriver @ 70 mph was 2000 rpm. It was painful driving at 55 or 60 when the national speed limit was 55.

    The "tranny fishing" mentioned earlier regarding the '06 Sonata may be a case of the engine turning too few rpms for the speed driven. Extra gearing at the lower end may contribute to that.
  • zen2zen2 Posts: 226
    Sorry, not my intent. I gues my point was just a little
    too subtle, even for our esteemed host.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,598
    This isn't related to the product but to public opinion. Ford cancelled advertising in "gay" publications due to public pressure. Now Ford is getting pressure from "gay" groups.

    This type of pressure from either side is not good. Let Ford, Hyundai, Honda & Toyota, etc. make and market their cars without political pressure. Let the public decide which car they prefer. All car companies want to improve their cars to help them sell more cars and make more profit.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    Repeat after me: Sonata-Accord-Camry-Fusion. We're going to get shut down if we keep veering off topic, and this is a forum that I really enjoy! Topics like this, and the transmission one (Toyota's alleged 8-sp), can easily be tweaked to specifically apply, for example-

    Advertising- it will be interesting to note how this impacts Ford, though I expect it will be not by much. Perhaps they should have explored the venue for the Milan, keeping the Fusion more family oriented. Could have been a competitive advantage- I'm not aware of any such advertising for the Camry, Accord, or Sonata.

    ~alpha
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,722
    Sonata-Accord-Camry-Fusion

    Sonata-Accord-Camry-Fusion

    Sonata-Accord-Camry-Fusion

    That being said having looked at Accord, Sonata and the Milan and my preliminary thoughts were that they are pretty much equal except that the seats in the Accord were uncomfortable.

    Sonata has it on price but I am not sure you can get leather seats and a stick and I know that sticks only come with 4 bangers.

    The Milan gives me most of what I want except for a V-6 with a stick.

    Now with the Accord I can get the whole nine yards including the stick on the V-6 but as I said earlier I find the seats rather uncomfortable and the price is a few thousand more than the Milan or the Sonata.

    Still haven't looked at the Camry.

    So far I am really leaning towards the Sonata, but just might go with the Milan.

    The sign said "No shoes, no shirt, no service", it didn't say anything about no pants.

  • Sorry, I don't know where this should go. I looked for a spot, but didn't find one.

    To Pat, and all of the other hosts on here. Thank you for the tremendous job that you are doing. I know that it is sometimes frustrating, and may lead to early balding, due to the hair pulling, and also sudden abnormal growths on the head, due to the head banging. At any rate I truly appreciate this site provided for us by Edmunds, and wanted to thank someone for it. Also, I like the tools part, where I can check on my recent posts.. I sometimes forget what or where I said something, not because of old age, it must really be the fault of the new technologies. :)
  • I was pointing out that I felt the same issue with the Fusion that MT now commented on. Most of the time it is you who gets riled if people do not agree with you.

    You may or may not agree, it is this kind of cost cutting that has hurt the Ford and GM to the extent that they are close to filing bankruptcy.

    COming back to the Sonata, I have read numerous reviews on the car, and there have been positive and negative comments as would be for any car tested by a variety of sources. I was pointing to one that I felt agreed with me.

    On another note, when MT comments something that you don't agree to, you go "shame on people not agreeing to you and MT' and on the other hand you quote CD who praised the Sonata and ask me to quote pubklications that have negative comments on the Sonata? How hypocritical can you get????

    If publications have no meaning to you, then include all, not just those that that disagree with you.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,710
    Relax, ok? Take note of the emoticons that people often use in these discussions to indicate that our comments are light-hearted, like this: ;)

    The purpose of a "XXX vs. XXX" discussion like this is to have a place to offer opinions on these cars, and disagreement is a part of it. So there's no need to get bent out of shape because someone disagrees with you--"they jumped all over me...". I don't get "riled" when people disagree with me. I do get frustrated when some people don't know the difference between fact and opinion, and turn the disagreeements into personal attacks. I also get a little peeved when people state a generalization as a fact, but get upset when someone else asks for some corroboration.

    Anyway, the reason I asked you to name three publications that had commented negatively on the Sonata's HVAC/audio/dashboard design is because you stated as a fact that lots of reviews had been negative on that point. I've read a lot of reviews on the Sonata and I can't recall lots of reviews that were negative there. If you don't want to back up your statement, fine.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    Bored at work, here are some stats- Maybe Ford (and all the others) are REALLY missing out by not targeting this population with the new sedans.

    -The average gay audience is male and 36 years of age.
    -They are THREE times more likely to be college graduates and typically bring home SIX times the average national income
    -When asked if they would prefer buying products specifically targeted to their demographic, over 80% said yes.
    (Source: Fraser Seitel, The Practice of Public Relations)

    I would love to know the demographics of the typical buyer for these 4 vehicles- from time to time when the Wall Street Journal has a vehicle profile, they include this stuff and its really interesting.

    ~alpha
  • ontopontop Posts: 279
    Bored at work, here are some stats- Maybe Ford (and all the others) are REALLY missing out by not targeting this population with the new sedans.

    -The average gay audience is male and 36 years of age.
    -They are THREE times more likely to be college graduates and typically bring home SIX times the average national income
    -When asked if they would prefer buying products specifically targeted to their demographic, over 80% said yes.
    (Source: Fraser Seitel, The Practice of Public Relations)

    I would love to know the demographics of the typical buyer for these 4 vehicles- from time to time when the Wall Street Journal has a vehicle profile, they include this stuff and its really interesting.


    So what. What does this have to do with Sonata vs the others? We all know about the gay stats.
  • No question of not backing my statements Backy, but he point I am making is that I have read in a few reviews that the HVAV/Audio/Dashboard design could be improved. I believe one instance was Car magazine (Asian version).

    Secondly, you would see from my posts that I mostly add IMO or IMHO, and not make generalizations or represent my statements as fact.

    cheers!
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    Ford and Hyundai, imparticular, are trying to win conquest sales from other manufacturers, and certainly Honda and Toyota especially. The stats just confirm that there IS a market out there, and that leaving it untapped seems foolish. I think the situation is exacerbated for Ford, because it has 3 models serving 2 markets; it'd be easier to position one of them, (My thinking: the Milan) to this, or ANY other, group. But that seems not to be the case....

    Maybe when you figure on allowing a model line to languish for 6 or so years before redesign, with fleet sales increasing every year... its not such an issue....

    ~alpha
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,710
    Well, "a few" is different than "lots", at least in my mind, but let's move on.

    I have started seeing more '06 Sonatas driving around. Someone at my church got a GLS V6, black, and just loves it. I have seen a black LX in the parking lot of my wife's eye clinic each time we've been there recently--must be someone who works there. I saw one '06 Accord the other day, but that's it. No Fusion (or Milan) sightings yet--but they and the '06 Accord have only been out a couple of months.
This discussion has been closed.