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Honda Civic Hybrid MPG-Real World Numbers

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  • We had the post just above yours. Your story and ours are almost exactly the same. Our car always gets between 32 and 34 on a tank. We are just as mad about the whole thing. The mileage is the reason we bought the hybrid. We meet people whe own regular Civics and they say they get in the 30's. We took our car in to the dealer and they told us everything is working just fine. We dont know what to do. We would join you on the class action suit.
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,793
    Be happy, my wife's 2002 Civic EX AT gets 26 MPG in the city.
  • mistermemisterme Posts: 407
    with low MPG.
    The average on the HCH is upper 40's, I have no idea why yours in paticular is so low.

    Myself, if I depend on cruise control set at posted speed limits the car does upper 40's to low 50's.
    My wife cares nothing about driving for efficiency and is a "hop in, gas and go" person and gets mid-upper 40's. (I have the CVT, MT should do a little better)

    Good luck on your lawsuit, YMMV.
    Some hypermilers are currently doing a marathon between them in this vehicle and exceeding 70MPH.
  • mistermemisterme Posts: 407
    I need to correct myself about the marathon-
    They are 4-5 hypermilers driving a single Prius 2 in over an extremely hilly course with about 7 stoplights. Still in progress, they are exceeding 100MPG using their techniques.

    One of them drives a HCH MT and routinely gets over 90MPG in his daily commute.
    THIS is amazing stuff!
  • blaneblane Posts: 2,017
    misterme,

    Amazing stuff, but totally unrealistic for the folks in the real world.
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    Probably is something wrong with the car. Maybe you can sell it and get a decent amount for it. A nice alternative would be a used HX which gets excellent mileage. They don't sell ytoo many of them,so it may be hard to find. On numerous websites lots of HCH owners are very happy with their mileage.
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    WOW...that's it? I guess the Lexus SUV gets better mileage than a Civic. That doesn't make any sense!!
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,793
    "WOW...that's it? I guess the Lexus SUV gets better mileage than a Civic. That doesn't make any sense!!"

    YMMV, and in the case of our car, it does vary. But it does get 37 MPG on the highway. I should also mention that my wife has a lead foot. I haven't yet driven the Civic through a full tank. But the car simply begs to be driven hard; it has so much zip and revs so easily.

    BTW, your Lexus SUV also costs about 3 times what my Civic set me back. (OK, maybe 2.5 times). Anyone care to figure out how long you'd have to drive that Lexus SUV to break even?
  • I don't understand how gas mileage could vary so much. We have an '03 manual Civic Hybrid that now has over 50K. We've driven it from Chicago to Miami, New York, and Oklahoma and average about 50mpg on the highway. We drive with the A/C and average about 70-75 mph. We also get about 46 in city driving. On our last trip to Oklahoma we averaged about 52mpg. I could have driven to Tulsa on a single tank. We are of course, delighted. How can these cars be so different?
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,793
    " How can these cars be so different?"

    I don't know if you missed my original post, I own a 2002 ICE Civic, not an HCH. I was just illustrating the fact that sometimes the entire Civic line gets poor mileage, in my case only 26 MPG in town. HCH owners have reported as low as 32 in town, which is really hard to understand.
  • It's not that hard to understand. I average 48mpg on my '02 HCH (currently over 68k miles). When I let my husband or one of the kids drive it, the mpg plummets. It all comes down to driving style, I think. The Hybrid has trained me out of jackrabbit starts and sudden stops; I try to maintain a smooth and steady speed, and just generally drive to keep my blood-pressure down. On the other hand, there are a couple of stretches of highway during my commute where I and the rest of the traffic go about 80 -- but I try for a steady and smooth 80.

    The rest of the family drives my car as though they were driving their cars. You can't do that in a Hybrid -- you need to be patient and pay attention to the mpg bar meter, and let the car train you.
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,793
    "The rest of the family drives my car as though they were driving their cars. You can't do that in a Hybrid -- you need to be patient and pay attention to the mpg bar meter, and let the car train you."

    You can't do that in a regular car either. I used to get 18-19 in my CR-V (admittedly it was FUN); now I get 21-22 (in town - road has stayed at about 26-27 MPG). The difference is my driving style. I took a look at the RPMs and speeds and started driving more intelligently.
  • You guys are like a bunch of broken records. I understand its all about driving style, What YOU are not understanding is that I HAVE changed my driving style. I will never receive another speeding ticket because at 28 years old I have learned to drive like a grandma. When accelerating from a light I keep the little "mileageometer" at 20 until I get up to speed (while the rest of the world passes me by), once up to speed I do my best to keep it above 40 without slowing down. If I try to keep it any higher than that I slowly lose speed, unless I'm going downhill (which isn't very often out here in flat Arizona). I coast when there's a red light up ahead, I anticipate changes in traffic, My middle name should be "smooth and steady". There has got to be something wrong with my car but all I get is the runaround. Actually, they sound alot like you people. Apparently, It's all my fault. I'm really tired of hearing that and I'm really tired of driving like a senior citizen and still getting crappy mileage. What I would like is some kind of help or advice on how to figure out and prove to the dealership that my car is some kind of lemon or something. I am not an angry or confrontational person so I can't go in and rip somebody's head off or throw a tantrum until somebody listens to me. Does anyone have any ideas without telling me your glowing story about your 80 mpg wonder car? gag.
  • markdelmarkdel Posts: 56
    Hi,
    Just a personal note, I have a HCH also, and I also get lousy mileage. If you want good advise here you are not going to get it. All the folks here that get good mileage either have one of those rare cars built on a wednesday, where nobody at the factory has a hangover, or is distracted by their weekend plans, or (and I think it very likely) they lie. And, in any case they are too busy patting their own back to care about you.
    By the way, the recall reprograming gave me a 2 mpg boost in mileage, so if you haven't had that done, do so soonest.
    One other thing, don't trust the mileage meter too much. Start keeping track of your fueling and record the gallons used and do the math. I found that I was doing better than I thought.

    Good luck,
    Mark
  • Do not have any ideas but am equally as frustrated. Car is actually my fiancee's, and so far has approx 5K miles and the "Trip A" odometer where we have recorded all miles shows 38.2 MPG average. That includes several trips to the desert out here where we have seen 40-44 MPG average, so you can see what the rest of the driving looks like. She is 80/20 city/highway, and may have a bit of a lead foot, but for example, the most recent tank (after the recall "fix") has shown 31 MPG. Yikes. We received the "wait until 5K miles" story from the dealer when we complained after a thousand miles. We understand the "actual miles may vary" and that we are not expert hybrid drivers, and never will be, but being in the mid-30s on most tanks doesn't sit well with 47-48MPG advertised. I would be happy with 40MPG given other factors. Let me know if you find people to pursue action, although I think we're out of luck. Let me also say that we are happy to help the environment, but could have accomplished almost the same thing with a Civic LX for $4K cheaper!!
  • kmh3kmh3 Posts: 35
    38 mpg? 80/20 city/highway? and a leadfoot? and I am assuming with the air on since you mention desert.

    I am sorry to say it but I think you are getting reasonable mileage for an HCH under those conditions. My own numbers closely match yours, but I rarely do pure city driving and rarely run the air conditioner. Short trips of mine where I operated under conditions similar to yours yielded similar results.

    EPA numbers tend to vastly overinflate city mileage compared to real stop-and-go traffic. I have never achieved EPA city numbers without driving gently enough to annoy people around me and even then it is nigh impossible unless the stop lights are far enough apart to get some coasting in.

    Matching EPA highway numbers is another story, on flat highways at 65 mph I have exceeded EPA numbers with every car I have owned. Again in the HCH this is no different unless I run with the air on, then it drops quite a bit but is still close to the EPA number. If you are getting mid 40's with air on and a leadfoot style in the HCH you are in the ballpark of what to expect.

    My take is that for sky-high pure city mileage the prius is the best choice. If you have a highway centric mix then the HCH will do fine. Let me say that again in this honda civic forum, if you do mostly city driving you will want a prius not the HCH.

    For what it is worth, if you are getting upper 30's you are still getting better mileage than any other car (except prius) would get under your conditions.

    I highly doubt you would get similar mileage with the LX. It is rated 32 mpg city, given your circumstances you would get around 25 (or 27 with the 5spd) mpg in an LX (assuming the ration of EPA to actual (38/48) remains the same for you).

    It might be worth talking to prius owners (in one of the forums here) to see if they can break 40 mpg under mostly city conditions with the air on and a leadfoot driving style. My bet is it that it will be better but may not be enough better to be worth making the switch.

    Consider how much money you would save in five years (say with gas at $3.00 per gallon) if you had a prius that got 45 mpg under your conditions, but you had to pay $1,000 more for it. Chances are you would not save any money, my bet is that unless you keep the priusfor a long time you have little to gain by making a switch. And you would have to talk the dealer into buying back your car.

    And lastly, the claim of false advertising has been made. It should be pointed out that car manufacturers have no say in what the government mandated EPA stickers have on them. The car manufacturers already lobbied the EPA to reduce the figures by a fudge factor to make the numbers more realistic. Increasing that fudge factor would make sense.
  • mistermemisterme Posts: 407
    Mark you wrote in post #46:

    "If you want good advise here you are not going to get it"

    ----Here we can agree. Personally I avoid posting tips on this particular site for the trolls allowed here who distort even the most basic benign suggestions.

    "All the folks here that get good mileage either have one of those rare cars or (and I think it very likely) they lie."

    ----My last tank came to 941 miles and 69.2 calculated MPG. The dash said 66.8.
    Judging from many other HCH CVT owners my car is operating normally, not a super car.
    So you're saying I'm lying?
    Do a google search on "today I brought my camcorder", download it and view it.
    63 point something MPG from my 46 mile commute. The road ahead, rearview from behind, FCD and more are clearly shown driving highway, freeway and terrible 5:30PM rush hour Atlanta traffic and shows how I do it, even with a strong head-cross wind.

    "in any case they are too busy patting their own back to care about you."

    Where did this come from?
    I've been among the most vocal about the HCH's potential....but not only potential but as helpful as can be with encouraging others for great things.
    My Hot_Georgia_2004 tips are posted many places around the net and several times every week people are thanking me for helping their MPG climb from upper 30's or 40's way up to 50's and 60's. I'm helping people get more from their gas $$ not only from hybrid cars but regular ones as well.

    How many people have you helped?
    It's one thing to be disappointed with poor MPG but another to create a post trashing those who are most helpful.
    Are you here to stir trouble? Help people?
  • kmh3kmh3 Posts: 35
    After all the claims and counter claims of high vs. low mileage I tried driving my old commute yesterday with my old driving style, meaning leadfoot and no attempt to save gas. I got 45 mpg overall, with the air on I am guessing it would have been around 40-42 or perhaps even in the high 30's. I tried it again today using my best skills (which are still not that good) and got 50 mpg. My best on that route is still 52, with air I am not so sure but guess it would top out around 45ish. It is 17 miles one-way with hills and about 30/70 city/hwy.

    I really do believe that high 30's is not unexpected with air on and still being an untrained driver in this car with lots of city driving. I started at 42 (no air), and am up to about 47ish now still on my first tank (it has been over two weeks now and it is still going). I have also been trying really hard, I am not saying this happened automatically or anything.

    For someone getting an initial 38 mpg, it seems reasonable you could get it up to low 40's if you really wanted to. I guess you have to ask yourself it you really want to go to the trouble of learning how to do it. I would advise against assuming that it is just plain impossible or that your car is faulty, as that will guarantee you will not achieve improvement and needlessly make you angry and bitter. I see nothing wrong per se about not bothering to retrain yourself, but attempting to assign blame, and lashing out against those who have gone to the trouble is counterproductive in many ways, it hurts you and it disincents them to try to help others.

    If I got 60 mpg on a tankful after a few years of hard work developing my driving technique, I would be really excited about it, and I would hope people would be kind enough to congratulate me instead of casting insults. So on that note, congrats to all the hyper-milers out there, you are an inspiration to the rest of us. :-)
  • playplay Posts: 38
    I just dropped in to lurk and see how things were going among the green set. i feel like I parachuted into the Gaza strip.

    And lastly, the claim of false advertising has been made. It should be pointed out that car manufacturers have no say in what the government mandated EPA stickers have on them. The car manufacturers already lobbied the EPA to reduce the figures by a fudge factor to make the numbers more realistic. Increasing that fudge factor would make sense.

    A very timely point. Not Honda, nor any manufacturer, is involved in these EPA numbers. If some people were a little more curious, they might realize that hybrids are not for everyone. If the majority of your driving is on the highway, why would you buy a hybrid? At that point, the batteries represent dead weight, not often used.

    I will never receive another speeding ticket because at 28 years old I have learned to drive like a grandma. When accelerating from a light I keep the little "mileageometer" at 20 until I get up to speed (while the rest of the world passes me by), once up to speed I do my best to keep it above 40 without slowing down. If I try to keep it any higher than that I slowly lose speed, unless I'm going downhill (which isn't very often out here in flat Arizona). I coast when there's a red light up ahead, I anticipate changes in traffic, My middle name should be "smooth and steady".


    The stereotype of grandma is someone who drives not only slowly but also one dimensional. It sounds like you are a very involved in your driving. I am too. I think it keeps things interesting. Its fun. I anticipate the reds and glide, glide , glide. i had a 2001.5 VW Passat and it had the trip computer. I thought I knew alot about MPG but i didn't know enough. On my 65 mile trip to work, at average 80 MPH, by gliding the last half mile as i got off the expressway, I was able to raise the total trip MPG from 31.5 to 32 MPG.

    BTW, with the exception of the above mentioned VW, i have been almost totally Honda loyal (incl ACURA) for 30+ years. My experience with the more recent Hondas is that they do not reach peak mileage until at least 15,000 miles. I find the 4 cyl loses from one half to three quarters of a mile per gallon with A/C. I am for the moment driving a Civic Coupe VP. I average 80 MPH (moving with traffic)on my highway commute. The last 5 tank average I had was 38.3 MPG. 25% A/C usage. Am also losing efficiency due to no cruise on the VP (bad idea), its been years since i was without one, and can't seem to hold a truely steady speed as before.

    Best of luck to everyone.
  • mistermemisterme Posts: 407
    For the record, I haven't always done so well in the MPG department.
    My prior car was a Dodge 4cy and I don't believe it ever did better than 16-1`7MPG for my poor, aggressive driving style. I drove about 28 years that way.

    I bought my HCH CVT in Jan'04 and my first tank came in the low 40's.
    I knew nothing about driving for efficiency. It was frustrating back then because the only site with any tips at all was for Honda Insight specific, and many of those tips didn't work well in my own car.
    This is the reason I've posted tips in so many places around the net. Others have posted great tips as well. Now the suggestions are plentiful and easy to find.
    By the 3rd month I was in the upper 50's, and by years end low 60's.
    I remained in the low 60's way too long thinking it was all I could do then I broke into the upper 60's. I've driven it almost 50K miles and over 20 months.

    Our Grand Caravan 6cyl went from 16 to 25MPG using most of those same tips.

    I make no bones to say that I work hard for my achievements and my commute is not typical, and few people will get such extreme results. But I get what I get and have a great time doing it.
    40MPG in an HCH is pretty low for a typical commute and I'm not in a place to say you are.......or are not doing all you can -
    But personally speaking I can't just settle for how it is. I can improve.
  • xcelxcel Posts: 1,025
    Hi Markdel:

    The discussions at Edmunds get out of hand quick and I hope you did not mean any harm but … I have seen Misterme’s dash pic’s multiple times and I have seen the video of his daily commute where he nailed a 63 + mpg / 43 + mile traffic and light congested nightmare of a segment in his CVT based HCH with a 10 - 15 mph head/cross wind! I know what the HCH is capable of and it is a lot more then what you may think. If you do not want to accept his actual FE or his excellent advice, that is up to you but to discredit someone of his caliber because of what you perceive isn’t possible is a disgrace.

    For those receiving in the low 30’s in their HCH, might I be so bold as to recommend that you find a hypermiler near you so that he or she can take your little beauty out for a 10 + mile drive in their locale after they have checked your tire pressures and oil level? I know more then my fair share around the country and with a few searches of the hybrid websites we all know of, you will find one too. Once you have that qualified hypermiler behind the wheel OF YOUR CAR for that 10 + mile drive in their locale, you will know if it’s the car or if it’s your driving habits. Until that happens, all I see is a “Blame Game”. Do us all a favor and try to find out first beforehand. Who knows, there might actually be a problem with your HCH but I wouldn’t wager my pay check on that being the case.

    Good Luck

    Wayne R. Gerdes
  • this is just a good example of new technology having some bugs to iron out. I think that Honda and Toyota both need to make a better effort with a continued research/development program. The best solution would be to borrow a select group of vehicles who show extremes on both ends of the spectrum, put them through various diagnostics and real world conditions, take into consideration the overall driving conditions of the individual owners, and formulate a scientific overview that they can apply across the board when servicing, manufacturing, and trouble shooting these cars. The knowledge gained will serve them well; much like the old 'buy back' programs where Honda (for example) would approach owners of 1980-something Accords to purchase and then pick apart the car to learn from their faults and strengths. For now, I'm going to run my 1990 Toyota Camry with 90k miles into the ground. Despite the fact it only gets 28 to 32 MPG, the overall expenses I'll have to lay out in the coming years should put me on par with a vehicle that gets 45 to 50 MPG. Sure, I could have bought that Prius I was on a wait list for; but at nearly thirty thousand dollars and all the variable issues that have come up with mileage/(un)scheduled maintenance scenarios being reported, I'll stick with what is proven until someone builds a better mousetrap. Perhaps the new Civic this fall will fix the problem, being it employs the flawless VTEC system to run the 3-stage hybrid system. Maybe if current Civic Hybrid owners approach Honda with their issues, the company will compensate them with the newer model at a reasonable swap-out fee. The important thing to remember is that we're dealing with companies who are genuinely concerned with their customers feedback and overall satisfaction. If you are not going anywhere with the dealership, contact the companies directly to see how to proceed. Good luck!
  • markdelmarkdel Posts: 56
    First, I have been to his site and can find no download of a video....
    Second, I did not accuse HIM of lying, perhaps his car was not built by someone with a hangover, or on a friday by someone raring to go for the weekend.
    In any case, I have tried everything I know to accelerate from a stop with indicated MPG greater than 20 MPG - lead foot, normal, granny, and super granny. If you want an indicated MPG greater than 20MPG starting at 0 MPH and going up to 35 MPH, you need to start at the top of a hill, I know because that was the only way I could do it. Going on a strip of highway that is 12 miles long, and taking notes as I go, and then driving the exact same highway BACK THE OTHER WAY to eliminate the grade of that strip of highway, the AVERAGE indicated MPG is 48 MPG on the straightaway (taking into account the boost gained by coasting at either end of the trip). Averaging in the 15 to 20 MPG indicated for the 1/4 to 1/2 mile it takes to "Granny" up to 60 MPH (the cruising speed for the highway) there is no way to get an overall MPG better than 40 to 41 MPG. Then when factoring in the grade up to where I live and the in city mileage in town ( my destination) the best I can ever get is 39.5 to 40 MPG. I have tried coasting, not coasting, coasting with and without being in gear, lead foot, light foot, "feather" foot, light timing, different gearing, keeping the RPM at different levels for the entire acceleration, or using different RPM's at different indicated MPH, using cruise control, not using cruise control, using AC, not using AC, (AND, BYE THE BYE, IF YOU ARE IN HOT WEATHER - 99 DEGREES - DRIVING WITH THE A/C VS WITHOUT AND HAVING THE WINDOWS OPEN - WITH A/C IS MORE FUEL EFFICIENT THAN WITH THE WINDOWS OPEN). The car drives perfectly. NO lurching, no stumbles, no exhaust smoke, no bad idle, nothing wrong.
    I have the tire pressure set to 50 lBs. The oil has just been changed (twice) the indicated total miles driven is 4,800 and change. Trip meter B has not been reset since the car was bought and shows 40.8MPG. There is no alignment problem, no extra weight in the car, etc, etc. I have even tried the 89 octane "trick". The car has a fresh coat of WAX.
    The car will not get 50 MPG, period, let alone 65 MPG or plus. misterme has either an unique combination of parts in his car, or .... you figure it out. Maybe he has a special route that he drives that is down hill on every leg to and from his house :confuse:
    I am not dumb, I have the equivalent education of an engineer, an actual degree in accounting, and the training required to be a diving officer on a nuclear submarine (three of them actually) and have a firm grasp of physics and higher math (taught both in college) and know what I am talking about.
    AND, I have helped a lot of folks, just don't advertise it here, thank you. ;)
  • xcelxcel Posts: 1,025
    Hi Markdel:

    The site I am referring to is GH. Look for a link to videos and you will find all you need.

    or (and I think it very likely) they lie.

    In regards to lying, you said somebody was? Who could that have been?

    And, in any case they are too busy patting their own back to care about you.

    Again, I cannot think of anyone that has given more of their time to help others increase their HCH’s FE then Misterme …

    Now back to your automobile … The only thing you haven’t done (as requested) is attempt to get a hypermile qual’ed driver behind your HCH’s windscreen to see if it’s you or the car? Your description doesn’t tell me a thing because you have no hypermiling experience in a hybrid or non-hybrid and some of what you have posted above is without question incorrect. With that, do you live near Chicago? If so, TBaleno or I might be able to help. If you live near Atlanta, Misterme might be able to help. If you live near Fredricksburg, W. VA., RJ might be able to help. If you live in Arkansas or Missouri, Lakedude might be able to help. If you live in Texas, Kenny (I think that is were he resides?) might be able to help. If you live in TN., Billyt1963 might be able to help. If you live in NY., KLCarch might be able to help … There are HCH Hypermilers all over this great country of ours and if you are unwilling to attempt to get one of us behind the wheel of your automobile, I wouldn’t begin to guess what the problem is. Education means zip in regards to the capabilities of the driver so save that speech for someone that cares. I would however place greater then even odds that the problem lyes with the guy staring back at you in the mirror …

    Good Luck

    Wayne R. Gerdes
  • blaneblane Posts: 2,017
    Wayne,

    markdel appears to have given his vehicle all of the benefit of the doubt in his very comprehensive report in post #57. He seems to have taken extreme measures to maximize his mileage for the testing that he's described.

    If, as you have suggested, it takes having someone else drive markdel's vehicle to attempt to squeeze a few more mpg out of it under excrutiatingly EXTREME hypermiling circumstances it seems, to this observer, that it's like trying to count the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin.

    You and the other hypermilers have performed some amazing feats. I admire that.

    However, the rest of the world cannot drive that way in their normal lives. It is totally unrealistic to compare such experimental results with the way most of us are forced to drive by our surrounding environment, i.e. other drivers in normal traffic.

    As a personal note, my everyday driver is a 2004 Accord V6 Coupe. It is equipped with a navigation system and trip computer that has a moving bar indicating instantaneous mpg. My overall average is about 20 to 22 mpg and I see about 32 to 34 mpg on longer flat highway runs. When I attempt to hypermile using the moving bar, there is no possible way that I can accelerate from a stop without clogging traffic to an unacceptable degree. Even on a flat empty road, I see about 10 to 15 mpg for way too long before I just say the heck with it and give it a bit more gas. That is a totally unrealistic way to expect anyone else to drive.

    Sure, I'm in the market for a Prius or Civic Hybrid. But I'll be damned, if I have to force myself while driving one of those vehicles, to sacrifice a normal driving experience. If my leadfooted wife were sitting in the passenger seat while I attempted to hypermile, she'd kill me.
  • xcelxcel Posts: 1,025
    Hi Blane:

    Why not take it into the dealership to find out if there is a problem with it? Because they are not going to find one! The next thing to do is go to someone who CAN HELP. I have seen nothing yet that says the vehicle is a mess or the driver is? There is no benefit of a doubt here. The only way I know of to find out if a car is performing up to spec in the FE department is to let someone that knows what IT SHOULD RECEIVE, drive it in his or her locale.

    If, as you have suggested, it takes having someone else drive markdel's vehicle to attempt to squeeze a few more mpg out of it under excrutiatingly EXTREME hypermiling circumstances it seems, to this observer, that it's like trying to count the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin.

    It is pretty simple. If I could receive 60 - 65 in his HCH around town, there isn’t a problem with the car. No question about it. I wouldn’t be squeezing a few more miles out of it as you say, I would be looking at it knowing what an HCH is worth in my hands and if Markdel’s HCH does the same, it is the driver. He cannot get 50 out of it while coasting down a hill with the ICE off? If a hypermiler can get 60 - 65 mpg out of it driving around town, where do you think the problem lyes given said hypermilers experience? There is only one logical conclusion.

    However, the rest of the world cannot drive that way in their normal lives. It is totally unrealistic to compare such experimental results with the way most of us are forced to drive by our surrounding environment, i.e. other drivers in normal traffic.

    Do you think I drive in a bubble? When I am experimenting with advanced techniques for the first time, I am on an absolutely desolate country road as I have to drive ~ 4 miles of this road once every 6 weeks if I like to or not. When I am using those new found techniques to improve my own FE, I am on the same roads that everybody else is driving with the flow of traffic just like you do.

    As a personal note, my everyday driver is a 2004 Accord V6 Coupe. It is equipped with a navigation system and trip computer that has a moving bar indicating instantaneous mpg. My overall average is about 20 to 22 mpg and I see about 32 to 34 mpg on longer flat highway runs. When I attempt to hypermile using the moving bar, there is no possible way that I can accelerate from a stop without clogging traffic to an unacceptable degree. Even on a flat empty road, I see about 10 to 15 mpg for way too long before I just say the heck with it and give it a bit more gas. That is a totally unrealistic way to expect anyone else to drive.

    My own personal note: Where did you come up with the idea that hypermiling uses an extremely slow acceleration? You adapt to the traffic around you and then take advantage of said traffics idiosyncrasies when and where applicable. I usually accelerate in the 15 - 25 mpg range in my own I4 EX-L w/ NAVI per the TC if that helps you decide if that is normal enough? If there is no one around, I will bring her up in the 30 range. If you feel you have to accelerate faster then this, by god you purchased the right automobile for it and at an estimated 21 lmpg, you know where your dollars are being spent! Along similar lines, I don’t think you want to know what my Accord’s lmpg is given my sacrifice of what you call a normal driving experience but driving in and amongst the Chicago faithful everyday (all 3,000,000 of us) with speed ranges from 0 - 68 mph each and every day, my PZEV performs very well while driving in the 25 - 50% quartile of average speeds day in and day out. Do you call 0 to 20 back to 10 back to 20 down to 0 back to 35 back up to 55 back down to 30 and back up to 65 during pre-Rush to Rush hour traffic slow downs normal? It is where I come from. Do you call a relatively steady 50 - 68 mph on a Chicago Tollway during the morning and afternoon rush but between traffic tie ups normal? It is where I come from. Do you call a steady 56 - 62 mph average speed in the late evenings on a Chicago tollway while in the far right lanes normal? It is where I come from. Do you call a 0 to 10 back to 0 back to 5 back to 0 on a Chicago tollway normal for a Rush hour? I do and it seems normal for everywhere else I have driven in the last 20 + years of my time behind the windscreen.

    Now for a bit more in-depth discussion pertinent to your own situation as you may be missing the big picture … My 2000 Insight 5-speeds year round lmpg was 32.5% above EPA highway. My 05 Accord’s 5 month lmpg is 39.4% above EPA highway at this point in time. Add in 4 months of Chicago style winter and its accompanying temps over the next 7 and that percentage will end up right around 33% above EPA highway as well. Do you see where this is heading? Hybrid, non-hybrid, 18-wheeler, econo-box, lux sedan, 4WD SUV… It doesn’t matter what it is. I should still average ~ 33% above EPA highway for that particular vehicle year round no matter what the vehicle is. USE this information below.

    Sure, I'm in the market for a Prius or Civic Hybrid. But I'll be damned, if I have to force myself while driving one of those vehicles, to sacrifice a normal driving experience. If my leadfooted wife were sitting in the passenger seat while I attempted to hypermile, she'd kill me.

    You can either change or you can suffer. Per your description, your lead footed wife would probably receive 17.5 - 20 mpg year round in your Accord (21/30 per the EPA) which is below the EPA combined by ~ 27%. She will probably receive 35 in a PZEV rated HCH w/ CVT (47/48) which is below the EPA combined by ~ 27% as well. You have to make up your own mind if an 18.5 lmpg vs. 35 lmpg is worth it to you or not given her driving habits?

    Lmpg or lmpg = lifetime miles per gallon

    Good Luck

    Wayne R. Gerdes
  • kernickkernick Posts: 4,072
    you: It is totally unrealistic to compare such experimental results with the way most of us are forced to drive by our surrounding environment, i.e. other drivers in normal traffic.

    me: yes, if you're in a vehicle that is already low powered such that 0-60 is taking 10-11 sec. many times you better have it floored to get up to speed. I drive a 2-lane highway with few legal passing zones, and there is no better way to PO someone then to pull out from a side-road and casually accelerate. The gas you may save slowly accelerating, is gas someone else lost having to brake from 60mph, and then accelerate hard to pass you. Again I can not emphasize how much you'd PO people.

    you: But I'll be damned, if I have to force myself while driving one of those vehicles, to sacrifice a normal driving experience.

    me: yes the technology isn't very good if you can't drive normal. Putting 70psi in the tires, accelerating 1/10 of a sec, and coasting as far as possible are best left to a mall parking lot on Sun. night, just as full power demos of sports cars are best left to tracks.
  • xcelxcel Posts: 1,025
    Hi Kernick:

    In your own style …

    You: I drive a 2-lane highway with few legal passing zones, and there is no better way to PO someone then to pull out from a side-road and casually accelerate.

    Me: Why did you pull out in front of somebody when you had to floor it to keep from P them O? You are going to get someone killed.

    You: yes the technology isn't very good if you can't drive normal. Putting 70psi in the tires, accelerating 1/10 of a sec, and coasting as far as possible are best left to a mall parking lot on Sun. night, just as full power demos of sports cars are best left to tracks.

    Me: Why are you putting 70 #’s in your tires? Secondly, when have you driven in heavy traffic that was normal? Does accelerating from a stop to 10 mph, back down to 5, back up to 20, back down to 5, back up to 30, back down to 10, and back up to 55 sound normal to you? If so, I am glad I do not drive anywhere near you because you’re a damned traffic hazard with those kinds of speed swings while driving down a road meant for 55 - 65 mph!

    PS: I hope you enjoy your possible $50.00 fills unless you are making extra wasted trips to the gas station as of late vs. those of us traveling the same distance on $35.00 or $17.00 if I still had my Insight … It hurts just thinking about the $’s you wasted because of your poor driving habits … And to think of all that CO2 and HC and CO and PM and NOx and … It is a crying shame for all of our sakes. I hope you are at least driving a PZEV to minimize YOUR direct impact upon each and every person in your locale :(

    Good Luck

    Wayne R. Gerdes
  • kernickkernick Posts: 4,072
    you: I hope you enjoy your possible $50.00 fills unless you are making extra wasted trips to the gas station as of late vs. those of us traveling the same distance on $35.00 or $17.00 if I still had my Insight.

    me: no I probably can't drive the same distance as you for the same money. But my main driving is to work, and I carpool, so I get a 100% increase there. I use the same amount of gas driving to work as a solo driver in an Insight. The priorities in our vehicles are comfort, safety, performance, and winter capability.

    And since my car wouldn't even hold $50 of gas, maybe about $40 right now, you shouldn't be too concerned about my finances. I use considerably less petroleum products than the average person, and probably you. I use no natural gas, have no house AC (don't need in NH) and no heating oil in 3 years. And my 3, year 2000+ vehicles are paid for, and I thus have very little auto costs.

    And please don't promote cutting back on green house gases; it's still kind of chilly year round here in NH.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,993
    And please don't promote cutting back on green house gases; it's still kind of chilly year round here in NH.

    Ditto for the Arctic Ocean. The ice is still too packed in to get the barges needed to fuel the Eskimo villages. Not many people in the Arctic believe in Global Warming. Been a very cold summer. Too many hybrids not enough CO2 :D
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