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Porsche - the world's best car company.

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  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I read something about that a while ago, Ferrari selling off their old F1 car. I think that is about the coolest thing I've ever seen in the automotive world.

    I mean that really makes Ferrari a "lifestyle" for real.

    M
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 16,688
    In sportscar racing, that is. Teaming up with Roger Penske, they'll contest the 2006 ALMS .

    This is great news for those of us who were dismayed that Porsche gave up Sportscar/endurance racing due to the costs of developing the Chilli Pepper SUV.

    2000 BMW 528i, 2001 BMW 330CiC

  • scott1256scott1256 Posts: 531
    the most profitable of all car companies, it now is second only to Lexus in long term reliability per J.D. Power.

    How are the Ferrari F1 cars sold to the public? Is it via auction?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,287
    No, no...you have to be chosen pretty much. You can't just buy your way in. You have to apply and you have to qualify and show that you can drive it, or that you are willing to be taught to drive it. I think they throw in driving school and some tech support as part of the deal. You need the tech support because of proprietary software issues, etc. Same with regular modern Ferrari passenger cars...only the dealers have the equipment to work on them properly. You have no choice really.

    PORSCHE: I think Porsche should erect a statue to James Dean---he must have done more for them than anyone else, even though ironically he died in a Porsche. Don't know how that happened---I mean, other car companies never benefitted from the death of heroes in their product (off the track I mean) , but Porsche seem to have.

    I think another appeal of their cars is that they are technical wonders, and this is sort of like a treasure chest of gems to certain kinds of people. Some folks just become endlessly fascinated by all the clever and even physically beautiful gizmos and components in Porsches. I was just looking at a Boxster and I noticed for instance that there's this device in the engine compartment that allows you to cut off all current to the engine bay so you can poke around but still keeps current for all the radio and computer codes. Clever.

    JD Power -- I don't think Porsche owners care about CR or JD Power. I think if Porsches turned up in last place it wouldn't do diddley to the sales---perhaps to the SUVs, yes, but not the cars. Ferrari already proved that punishing maintenance and frequent component failures do not deter the faithful one little bit.

    (Observations like this drive CR freaks nuts by the way, since they "can't figure it".)

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  • scott1256scott1256 Posts: 531
    J.D. Power putting Porsche next to Lexus is just an unexpected treat.

    Getting three toppings on your sundae when you only expected two.

    Realizing your beautiful new wife loves cooking, gardening and 2 seat roadsters.

    I will get back to disagreeing with you again one of these days, I promise.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,287
    Yeah, I'm counting on it. Let's not have a Love-In here. :P

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  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Posts: 1,704
    I recall you mentioning in an earlier post that you weren't too fond of the water-cooled sixes found in the 996/997. What exactly don't you like about those motors? I kind of like them myself and find them to be quieter (but not by much) than the old air-cooled version.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,287
    I think the quality of manufacture is much lower. They are cheaper engines and they really look like it. Corner-cutting in other words. I'm willing to bet that in the field they will not show the amazing endurance and long-livedness of the earlier air cooled engines. Unless you totally bust it you can rebuild a 993 engine many times. Another tip off? You can buy a 996 crate engine for only $7,000 but a 993 will probably cost you $12K.

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  • scott1256scott1256 Posts: 531
    Porsche car sales are up 31% for the first half of 2005.

    I wonder if there will be a second generation of the Cayenne.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    They must have had one helluva 2nd quarter because sales were way down at the beginning... something like 30% if I recall correctly. Today's New York Times reports that some research company has Porsche cars as the 5th most trendiest out of about 64 car/truck groups.

    Others at the top:
    1 - Scion
    2 - VW cars (wow)
    3 - Jeep (holy stromboli)
    4 - VW truck (jeez)

    Lots of other surprises at the top.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,287
    It's the Porsche car sales that are red hot. The SUV sales are stagnant, so when you average them the number doesn't look so good. But Porsche OWNS their niche in the $$ sports/GT segment.

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  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Sorry, I should have paid closer attention to what I was reading. I recently noticed that the survey about trendy cars which I mentioned above was conducted among 16-24 year olds. That puts it into different perspective, aye. But it becomes interesting from another angle. It’s ironic how car manufacturers change styling in an attempt to keep them current, yet Porsche styling has been around since the War of the Roses.

    I guess whether you are an old goat or young whippersnapper there is no substitute, unless of course it's a Scion or VW.

    ;-)
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,287
    In the final analysis, trendy styling or high JD Power ratings are all well and good, but really, it's what you put up on the sales scoreboard that counts. The automotive graveyard is littered with cars that were good but not great.

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  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Yes, that's easy to agree with. Originally I thought the survey was of curious interest in relation to Porsche’s current sales success but my point went awry… poof… courtesy of my attention lapse unless, of course, 16-24 year olds are buying most of the Porsches, and that ain't the case. However, it does suggest that Porsche's future is irrigated in those young heads.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,287
    Absolutely...if that callow surly teenager has any type of car poster on his wall you can be sure it's going to be something like a Porsche or Lambo or very wild Japanese street machine.....it's not going to be a Lexus LS430 or a Saturn.

    It's the cars you sell that really counts. Just ask Lexus, who's passenger car line up is getting beaten up in the performance luxury department despite top quality ratings and/or customer satisfaction. Why? Bland styling and middling road-go. Neither of which Porsche is guilty of at the moment.

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  • rothwellrothwell Posts: 2
    Shifty, I am very seriously thinking about buying a porsch. My question is, the older porsches 1980-90 look great... is that considered old for a car of this nature. I can also afford a 1994-1999 porsche, are they much better cars in terms of reliablity or are the older one a better buy...............thanx in advance for your expertise. :)
  • mirthmirth Posts: 1,212
    ...if you need the old sports car you're considering buying to be reliable, then you probably need to get a different car. Old sports cars are a luxury/fun item - that is, don't depend on them as your sole means of transportation.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,287
    I'd say 80s Porsches are very very reliable cars....everyday drivers that you can rack up 200K+ miles on, no problem.

    90-91 models had problems, I'd steer clear.

    Any of the newer 993s (air cooled) are great.

    We can talk more about Porsche cars in the Coupes/Convertibles Board if you wish. This forum is more about the company in general.

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  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Posts: 1,704
    If I'm correct Porsche contracted out the bodywork for the 924 and 944 to Audi- those were built at the Audi facility in Neckersholm, Germany (I think that's what the town is)

    Shifty can you still see an Audi/VW influence in the design of '80s 944s? I definitely sure can.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,287
    Porsche design has always been pretty good. They seem to know how to be "different" but not radically so. Most successful car companies try to be "ahead of their time" but not TOO FAR ahead.

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  • highenderhighender Posts: 1,362
    I do have to say most of what shifty said was correct.

    A Porsche buyer will not look at the CR ratings.... ( though boxsters were considered "good buy " )

    a 911 is not just a car...it is a dream , a statement, toy with a big smile on your face..... :D

    The cayenne I like a lot...due to having family.... though they pulled down the JD Power reliability ratings a bit..cause of growing pains of a new vehicle launch. That said, the SUV cayenne rocks... how many cars can go 60-0 in only 118 ft....and accelerate 0-60 in only 5.2 sec ?

    By the way, did you guys know the Cayenne did beat the regular boxster on a English track, and equaled the BMW 3 series time ?

    I drove a 1982 928...daily for many years...with hardly any maintenance...but only stopped cause my sister crashed it. The boxster is awesome, as was the 968. Did not get a 996 due to family ....

    IMHO, Porsche needs to pay a bit more attention on customer service and American's want of convenience features...without diluting its focus on performance.

    Is it the BEST car company ? I don't know....but I would like to be in a porsche....more than I would like to be in any other car... :D
  • highenderhighender Posts: 1,362
    btw, shifty is right about the older porsches...

    67% of all Porsches EVER built...are still running today...

    that is as much a testament to the company, the car, as it is to the fans.
  • 04_xkr04_xkr Posts: 3
    I hear the latttte 80's to early 90's porsches have quite a few problems...but any newer ones with problems will cost a lot to fix...theres no way to win on that unless you're lucky. In terms of porsche being the best car company...possibly. They were selling boxsters that were outperformed by z3's/z4's and slk's for more money. Not only for more money, but you don't even get any features on them like power seats, Xenon lights, colored crests...or just about any luxury feature for that matter. They do build cars with extreme precision and unique looks. Now the new carerra which should have had a power boost to at least 340hp, but instead went from 320 to 325...weak. You can argue that they're fast enough but for that price I am not settling for "just enough." I would have much rather porsche keep all of it's "perfection" in it's cars just about the way they were in the previous model and instead for 05' to update the engine...it's about time. 340hp for the carerra and 370-375hp for the carerra S isn't asking a lot at all (that's all it needs to beat the vette at least). Why can an M6 make 500hp for about $80,000, and a carerra (with all of the options that the M6 has standard) will cost about the same or more for 320hp. They're both sports coupes and both have luxury to them but porsche is supposed to be the sportier car...but it seems that just means being smaller with less room. I guess that's why porsche is the best car company--they can sell almost entirely on looks and also their name. Even if the M3 was as small as a porsche, it would perform just as good...possibly better. So the only thing porsche is selling above their competition is looks and their name...and they can charge just about whatever price they want to charge and people will pay. (many even prefer a higher price to keep it more exclusive) WOW! What's better than that. No wonder they make more profit than any other company.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,287
    How about Ferrari for really being profitable------

    Their newest model is sold out WITHOUT THE PRICE BEING POSTED!!!!

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  • rroyce10rroyce10 Posts: 9,359
    .... **And I don't think they rely solely on empty image like Harley does** .....

    You didn't print that with a straight face, did you ...?

    I have a funny feelin' that 500,000 people from Sturgis might disagree with you ..l.o.l.......


    Terry :shades:
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,287
    I wrote that with a totally straight face. Any high performance motorcycle rider will tell you the same thing I think. If the mob were always right Terry, just think of what we'd be forced to drive.

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  • starrow68starrow68 Posts: 1,142
    That's what makes money for the big car companies. But with our consumer driven economy we aren't forced to follow the mob and can spend what we like and get any combination of performance, image or combination of the above. From a value perspective the Porsche is more image than value for the performance $, IMHO. Harley may be the same, I used to ride Honda's before I understood how insane two wheels is when surrounded by four or more. A Corvette coupe for about $45k is more performance than spending the same money on a Porsche, in both a straight line, by a long shot and around a road course, at least the six I've been to. Now the fact that the wife's cost less than $40k at the end of the '04 model year is just gravey but cements the issue. Try getting a Boxster S for that kind of money and then when you get good let's meet and see what they can do at most any road course. Given similar average drivers, I'm betting the Corvette walks away. At best I'm average, but I hope to get better ;)

    If all you want to do is autocross, have fun in 60 sec. chunks, I'll admit the Porsche will do better on average, but it kept my attention for about three days and the less than 6 minutes of track time for a full day didn't keep my attention, even though I was able to place in top 5 among other similar inexperienced drivers.

    Randy
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,978
    I just wouldn't want to look at the Malibu steering wheel...

    IMO, Harleys are very image based, around here. The perfect toy for pseudo-rebellious boomers hitting a midlife crisis. They scream "I'm a tough pharmacist" or something.
  • starrow68starrow68 Posts: 1,142
    You say Harleys scream something about the individual and then you say you wouldn't want to look at the Malibu steering wheel. The wannabe bikers are to be sneered at since you don't share their crisis, at the moment, wait until you get there. But, your inability to see past the steering wheel to the performance package is somehow justifiable? Where are the objective measures that bring the analysis down to admission that buying a Porsche is mostly about image, since the $'s aren't justified on paper?
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,978
    When I get to that crisis, I'll buy a Ferrari or something, or maybe even a nice future Corvette. That's another 25 years or so off for me though.

    Most eyecatching cars have little to do with being objective. If I'm gonna spend 40K+ I want something special. Right now, I have one too many cars as it is, and a Vette seems like something my dad's friends would swoon over, not mine.

    I can see past the steering wheel...but I wouldn't want to look at the thing. I guess it can be swapped out.
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