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Chevrolet Corvette Z06

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Comments

  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    My '06 Z06 has just crossed the 1500 mile mark. This car has really loosened up since new.

    0-60 when new: 4 seconds flat.
    0-60 with the upgrades and 1500 miles: 3.44. That is extraordinary, even for a Vette. I try to keep everyone posted.
  • Guys, you want to hear about quality, read this! I purchased a brand new yellow 2006 Z06 on the last of October, after waiting patiently for a few months. Note that I owned a '01 Z06 which I kept for 2 years and recently returned a '03 911 Turbo off of a lease and purchased the new Z06, thus to amazement of some of my friends went back to a Corvette after having a Porsche.

    About 2 months ago after not using the Z06 for about 10 days, my Z06 woudln't start. I called roadside & received a boost. A similar situation happened 2 weeks ago, but this time after 4 or 5 days of not being used... Obviously a problem, so I made an appointment with my local dealer to check into the problem. This was this past Friday 1/27/06. Otherwise the car seemed to operate normally.

    The dealership checked the battery and told me it was fine, but when they were about to return the car to have me go on my way, the car didn't start! They obviously kept the car and later in the afternoon informed me that it was a defective starter... It happens, right, no big deal. They would overnight the part and fix it on Monday 1/30/06... No problem...

    Monday comes and I have a very unpleasant conversation with the dealership (who by the way are very professional) and I'm informed that when they car was lifted to install the starter... they discover a CRACKED lower ENGINE BLOCK!!!! They immediately tell me that they will swap in a new engine! The car is 3 months old with 1,300 miles on it, so you see the problem! I'm demaning a new car, NOT a repair!

    Mind you, I have a number of friends who own dealership and know numerous mechanics! I speak with all of them that same day on Monday. ALL state the same. The only way this could have happened is that the engine was overtorqued on the installation, thus cracking the engine block! This car was delivered to me defective and quality control (what an oxymoron) at Chevrolet didn't catch the problem! Fine, things happen... but Chevy, you made the mistake, rectify it and give me a new car!!!

    I call Chevrolet customer support, and get a very polite, non-comittal run-around. When I ask the lady who is a manager to let me speak with someone above her, she states that she will not as per her "guidelines." Coincidentally, that dealership where my car was being fixed had a visit from a Chevy field rep. and this issue was immediately brought to his attention. He obviously okays the engine swap under warranty, but when informed that the customer wants the car replaced, refuses it.

    I immediately file a Better Business Beureau complaint, and receive a phone call from a GM's customer relations manager on Tuesday morning, who is apparently above the customer support manager with whom I spoke earlier... He is told all the facts and promises to get back to me on Tuesday 2/06/06.

    I want the car replaced & my issues with the repairs are the following:
    a.) Obviously the Z06 is a very high performance automobile, the dealer admits to me they have never did this job on this car, I'm afraid the reliability & performance of my car will be affected in either the short term or the long term. Nothing against the dealership, but they have specialists at the factory hand building & installing these engines, and now this job will not be done in the factory? P.S., I would feel the same had they told me that car would go back to the factory for the repair job as my confidence & security in this car is totally gone.
    b.) A simple carfax will reveal that this car has a new engine, thus substantially affecting the value of the automobile. Again, Chevy delivered a defective car, they need to do right by their customer and replace it.
    c.) We all know that owning a Corvette is an emotional decision, and surely the way I feel about this car has been substantially affected in a negative way. I still want to have a Z06, but this car is obviously not the one I will keep.

    Finally, I feel betrayed by Chevy's immediate reaction to my situation. The company (GM)is having a lot of problems as we all know. I feel that we, as Corvette owners, are the backbone customers and need to be heard and I think Chevy/GM is very dangerously undermining the core customer base with these type of actions. I see myself and others like myself as GM's #1 customers. Not only do I own their HALO car which states to the world, take a look and notice, the Z06 is what GM is all about, but I'm also a repeat customer having previously owned another Z06! I still have hope that Chevy/GM will do the right thing and replace the car without any further action by me... I'm still waiting... But I'm prepared to take all steps necessary, including legal ones... P.S. I am an attorney.

    All contributions & opinions would be highly appreciated. Anyone else ever have similar issues? Any ideas in dealing with this situation? Needless to say, I'm extremely distressed by this situation!

    Thanks in advance for comments and ideas...
    Alena
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    For what it's worth, when I was shopping for a 911 last summer, I visited a dealership that had a 911S Cab with 1,500 miles for roughly $10k under list. It looked brand new. It had been taken back by the dealership/Porsche when the clutch failed, due to a one-off defect. The purchaser was allowed to drive the repaired car for 30 days until Porsche could deliver him a new, comparably equiped car.

    This particlular dealership was selling all new 911 Cabs at 100% MSRP. Therefore, Porsche and/or the delership were willing to take a $10k hit to give the original owner a brand new car. And that was only because of a clutch replacement, not something as serious as a cracked engine.

    The next week, I happened to meet the "lucky" 911 owner at the dealership and asked him if he had to threaten legal action to get a new car. He said just the opposite - he never even asked for a new car. They offered it without being asked. He was further stunned when they didn't charge him for an extra couple of options that were on the new one. It may have cost Porsche $10k+, but that event helped get my business two months later.

    Fortunately, I have not had any issues with my 911. But shortly after I bought a Honda S2000 in November 2001, one of the convertible roof latches broke. I got it replaced two days later at the dealership and a week or two later, it broke again. By then it had snowed. The dealership sent a service technician 15 miles to my house and replaced the latch there. The next day, I got a call from the regional factory representative asking if I was satisfied and if they could do anything else. I jokingly said a car cover would be nice. He laughed. A week later, one arrived in the mail.

    You have bought one of the few cars that GM could truly be proud of. Yet it came with a very serious defect. If they don't give you a new one, I would be upset as hell.

    Nobody is perfect - not GM, not Porsche, not Honda. But how you handle a problem says everything about your integrity as a company.
  • Habitat1, thank you for your response.

    I couldn't agree with you more. Integrity of the company is the bottom line. I agree that problems arise and no company is perfect, but it comes down in doing the right thing vs. the wrong thing. It may seem like an additional expense for GM to do the "right" thing, but Porsche has managed to be one of the most profitable car manufacturers while doing the right thing, while GM is having huge financial difficulties and needs our tax dollars to be bailed out by the government. The gentleman with the Porsche had a problems with the clutch, and the dealer OFFERED to replace the car and let him drive the car he had until the replacement arrived. While my engine is cracked due to poor worksmanship & quality control, and I have to FIGHT for the same. Folks, its all about integrity! Maybe doing the right thing gets you more business in the long run thus leading to long term profitability.

    All additional comments & opinions would be greatly appreciated.
  • russlarussla Posts: 74
    help me get this straight,

    They will put in a new engine, and give you a car to drive in the mean time while they fix yours.

    or are they only willing to put in a brand new engine?

    Thanks for clarifying
  • russla,

    As clarification, they are willing to put in a new engine. I do have an ENVOY which they provided as a loaner.

    Take a look at the C6 Corvette forum where another member of this forum responded... In this case a BMW M3 was being sold by a BMW dealership at a huge discount where the engine had to be replaced with the car having appr. 5K miles and in which instance BMW also replaced the M3!

    Above again addresses one of the main issues that I do have! I will basically have a new car with the engine having been swapped thus substantially affecting the value of my car! Where is the fairness in this? Remember, the car left the factory with the cracked engine block and Chevy quality control has proved to be anything but! Their screw up! Fine, it happens, do the right thing! They refuse. Am I missing something?

    P.S.
    Yesterday I spoke with a customer relations manager from GM who told me that they would not be giving me a new car. I'm not giving up, so stay tuned.

    So far, based on feedback of numerous people on these boards, Porsche, BMW and Honda have done the right thing in similar or LESS serious situations, but GM, knowing that they delivered a SUBSTANTIALLY defective car, have not!!!

    INTEGRITY!!! A wonder why GM is having the problems that it is! Must love their new slogan - "AMERICAN REVOLUTION"! What a joke! I try to buy and support American products, but shouldn't this relationship be mutual?! I guess not in the eyes of GM!

    Thanks. Alena :lemon:
  • russlarussla Posts: 74
    Thanks for clarifying,

    I'm sorry, you feel that a new engine in a new car will seriously affect its value, it's not like they're putting a rebuilt motor in, and if you ever sell to a collector, the car is still considered original, because it was a warranty replacement. Does having a new CPU, or a new window motor decrease the value of the car? or a new windshield? not really.

    If I bought a vette, and then had to drive around in an Envoy for weeks, it certainly would diminish my view of the dealer, and the MFG, as I would like them to provide a vette for me to drive. But I realize, they are not under any obligation to cater to my emotions. As a lawyer, you should best understand that what's written in ink, is what governs the liability. and I'm sure you can find the requirements for the lemon law in your state.

    Yes you have found examples were other MFG's have catered to emotions, but that doesn't make their GM's actions wrong. It's just what makes GM, GM.

    They are afterall, giving you a brand new engine, it's not like they're changing the way the car handles, accellerates, looks, functions or sounds. It's still the cool car you bought, they didn't change the soul of it.

    When you get it back, and if you decide to keep it, just push on the gas pedal a few times really hard, in a safe location,go around some curvy roads, and you may in fact fall back in love with it.

    Best regards
  • Its not a matter of emotions. My "feelings" about the value of the care are based on my own personal observations & comments by other board members, as well an pretty much everybody I spoke with. In every example that was provided, specifically the 911 & the M3, the cars were sold for significantly less than market value by the dealerships themselves. I have no reason to believe it would be any different with my Z06. I know if I was buying one with a replaced engine I would be looking for a significant discount. Wouldn't you? Would you pay the same for a 3 month old Z06 with 1300 miles if one was all original and the second had a replaced engine? I know I wouldn't. I spoke with a couple of friends who own used dealership and guess what? They concur! The value of my automobile is significantly affected!!!

    As far as changing the way the car handles or performs, who can tell? If you shelled out close to $80K after taxes, etc. would you want to take that chance? Now you're driving your new car and really have no idea what you have any more. My confidence is this car is pretty much shut. Did I mention they also had to replace the starter? Issues are starting to add up...

    The dealership informed me that they never handled an engine swap on this car. Am I to be the guinea pig? This is a very complicated car, and although I think very highly of this particular dealership, I'm not confident that the car after the engine swap will be 100% as reliable or perform to as high a level as a new Z06 should.

    By the way, I fully intend to litigate and win, but that is not the point. The point is the integrity of the company I'm dealing with. So next time one of you buys a GM product just hope problems do not arise with the product, and in that case you may actually enjoy the car you bought.

    Thanks for your comment and all future comments are opinions are highly appreciated!

    Alena
  • russlarussla Posts: 74
    "The point is the integrity of the company I'm dealing with".

    Really, if integrity is the point,
    Where's yours?

    You signed the contract when you purchased the car, and that contract includes their warranty, and their oblication to adhere to your state's lemon laws. (which you probably got a copy of when you bought the car)and if you didn't, since you're a JD, you probably have familiarized yourself with, so you know you can't use them in this beef.

    They are doing everything they agreed to, they're fixing the engine, the starter, and giving you a loaner.

    Where have they failed to live up to the contract they signed? Show us where GM violated their agreement with you, I've yet to see any indication that they have violated the contract you signed.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    You have EVERY right to be upset and frustrated having waited on a car for months and then to have it not start ONLY to find out that the engine is bad. I find it hard to believe that, upon lifting the motor, that's when they discovered the "crack". Before hand, was the car driveable? Any different actions the car would have? It could've been very well a repair shop incident. I've had these problems to happen on 3 occassions at repair shops.

    I find this hard to believe because me, the Vette man himself, have never heard of such non-sense in my life, particularly in the auto biz. It may be true that the Z06 came from the mfr. defective, but surely GM should address more than just an engine swap and a free Envoy rental. That's just putting a band-aid over a river of blood flow.

    Thankfully, my '06 Z06 has been a reliable daily driver. No problems whatsoever. But since youe issue is relatively a rare event, GM sees no point in giving you a new ride, which in itself is unjustified. Someone spending 80k on a ride and to add on top of that a previous Z06 owner, it should be a no-brainer.

    Justin P. Spencer, ESQ (I serve the Court also)
  • I hope that chevy takes care of your problem and replaces the car, but i had a similar case with a 2004 BMW 330. It had a faulty auto transmission from the factory. It was replaced with a rebuilt transmission. The dealer explained that they would only replace it with a rebuilt and not a new one. I was very upset and tryed every thing but legal matters. They explained to me that my owners manual said that they had the right to replace any part with new or rebuilt at their discression. I checked it out and they were right and also my corvette manual said the same exact thing.
  • slvrmslvrm Posts: 2
    I can’t believe some of these responses. If I paid 80k for a car “any car” and it’s determined to be defective from the factory, I would expect nothing less than a replacement car period. The same course of action applies to any product I purchase. You people that are suggesting "alenatasevich1" suck it up and drive on are just unbelievable. I bet you would sing a different tune if this was your 80k.
  • starrow68starrow68 Posts: 1,142
    If the paper work says, replace defective part, and the owner signed it, then that is the starting point. If the owner can convince somebody in the chain of command to do more than that for 'goodwill' then more power to them but don't be surprised if it comes out the way the paper work started. Individual opinions here are not going to sway the case in either direction so lobbying for support is really not productive. JOMO
  • russlarussla Posts: 74
    I agree, I would be upset, and disappointed and I might want a new car too. And if GM had Customer Satisfaction as one of its higher priorities, maybe they would be more inclined to offer a new vette. But they didn't, so their customer service is definately crap, but that's not illegal, nor deceitful.

    The document she signed, or intialled, contained the information about how GM would act, when she accepted the car. and they're acting in accordance with the contract.

    Just keeping it real.
  • slvrmslvrm Posts: 2
    You know, this is another example of why GM is going down hill. They don't stand behind their product, and putting the best interest of the customer second is not how you conduct business.
  • First of all I would like to once again thank all of your for your responses. They have been very supportive but not unanimous due to responses of russla. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I thank you for yours too... Russla, I hope you never find yourself in the situation I'm in as I think your opinion might change.

    I will file a legal action shortly and I'm well aware of my local lemon laws, and russla, I can & will use them "in this beef" :shades: . The purpose of my postings is to bring into focus how GM deals with the customer of their top of the line car!

    Its amazing that GM delivered a substantially defective product to me and their quality contol didn't catch it, and MY integrity is being questioned by russla... lol Well enought about that.

    Justin, the car was drivable and appeared to drive normally, there were no leaks of any kind. They discovered the car upon lifting the car, not removing the engine. As far as it being the repair shop's fault, that's definitely a possibility as the mechanic who actually worked on my car was accused, or at least the accusation was implied, when the Chevy rep was at the dealership examining the car. So who knows, but the problem with the start-up was happening pretty much from day one.

    Justin, I'm glad you are enjoying your Z06. I was enjoying mine immensely until this happened and when this issue is resolved still plan on getting a new one. I truly appreciate your support! :lemon:

    As an update, today is the 18th day at the dealership and the car won't be fixed this week as they're still waiting for certain parts...

    Alena
  • slvrm, rsvett and starrow68,

    Thanks for your opinions and support.

    I will post additional information as it becomes available.

    Starrow68, I'm not lobbying for support, all the support I need will come from my impending legal action. I think my voice should be heard and I'm just voicing my opinion as to why GM is sliding quickly. If they don't see fit to change their approach they may go the way of the dodo. That wouldn't be good for anyone, their customers nor their employees who I believe number well over 100,000!

    slvrm, I truly appreciate your support and even russla agrees that he'd want a new car! :lemon:

    Alena
  • russlarussla Posts: 74
    Let me keep this short.

    If the car sits too long it may qualify for lemon laws. (or has too many issues in a short time) or what ever it takes to qualify for your state. If it does qualify, then use the laws by all means. (you should get a new one) WHEN and IF it does. No one here is against this line of action, and would hope you'd be victorious given those conditions were met. But as far as I know, Lemon laws don't cover how you feel about the car. The warranty remains unchanged, so statistically it is seen as reliable. they also don't enforce customer satisfaction.

    I fail to see where GM violated their agreement with you. So if they're performing on their end, I don't see the just cause for demanding changes to the contract.

    lets just hope they can't get the parts, and you have no issues using the lemon laws

    Kind regards
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    Depending upon which state the car was purchased and the state where the owner resides, the lemon law can be invoked in which case the claimaint can in fact be "dissatisfied" with the purchase. No matter the "contract", if the vehicle is idle or inoperable due to means beyond owner and manufacturer, then a "suitable" replacement of equal value at time of replacement in lieu of parts and labor and money down can be enforced under most conditions, this being one of them.

    The vehicle had a "major" manufacturer blemish(to say the least) from the start, in which the owner sustained major lapses of driveability due to and recognized by the dealer and the manufacturer.

    Enough of the law talk. It's not about customer satisfaction or buyer's remorse or dissatisfaction. The owner bought the car on principal of believing it would drive and operate as advertised, from day one.

    The contract says they'll replace the part with a new or rebuilt at their discretion. Well technically, in the eyes of the federal government, at certain months and miles of ownership, the car is still considered new. So at the least, the engine will in fact have to be new. Most states lemon laws are very straight foward and to the point on matters, especially a case as such as this one. It would be wise to get all of the info on the states regulatory lemon law procedures as they vary greatly year-to-year. Keep us posted.

    Justin P. Spencer, ESQ
  • ClairesClaires Chicago areaPosts: 979
    I apologize for not stepping in sooner. The lemon law issues and critiques of GM are dragging this discussion off-topic at this point.

    Those who'd like to continue discussing GM's policies/practices, customer service, and warranty issues will find plenty of takers in the News & Views and Smart Shopper Forums.

    imageDrive on over and see me!

    MODERATOR
    Need help getting around? claires@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • jpstax1jpstax1 Posts: 197
    I thought all LS7 engines were hand-built, with only one technician involved from start to finish. In fact, there was one on display at the Chicago Auto Show yesterday. It looked like it had lot more moving parts and was much more complex than the other V8 engines on display. I wonder how much actual testing went into the development phase of this engine? To me, using a motor with a dry-sump lubrication system could be a disaster waiting to happen, given enough running time. Since it's based on the C6R engine, maybe more testing should have been done to ensure long-term reliability. Am I right? I read where it took GM several years to develop the 5.3 (DOD) engine.
  • starrow68starrow68 Posts: 1,142
    Fantastic Rocketship, just loafing around, wasn't about to push it when only doing a few laps, I was still doing 10mph faster at the end of the back straight and braking earlier since I wasn't comfortable to depend on brakes that I know are better but I'd only used for about 8 minutes. Biggest surprise was how docile the whole package was compared to my coupe and the school C5 Z06's, loafed one lap, pushed a couple corners where I was very comfortable on the second lap and then got well beyond the C5's on a third lap but still taking it very easy in the high speed over 100mph corners and comming on the straights where there were walls and limited runoffs.

    BTW, just a few weeks after they got the car it turned up with a noisy valve train and GM swapped the engine in a week. FWIW
  • jpstax1jpstax1 Posts: 197
    Here's proof that the C6 Z06 is as fast as some reports say it is:

    http://www.dragtimes.com/2006-Chevrolet-Corvette-Videos-7055.html
  • You say you had the car 3 months, if the block in fact was cracked from the getgo the engine would not of held compression, water or oil and would never have passed the GM build tests before being shipped out of BG. In any case engine would have been running very badly.

    You or someone drove car for 3 months so again there is no way the block had been cracked all that time. Impossible.

    The no start is a common problem esp with a C6 where if shifter is not put in reverse then the NO KEY system never goes to sleep so that alone would not get you a brand new car.

    As to engine, someone did that damage, if it was the dealer's people or someone taking it on a joy ride but the fact that no others have had a block crack says you lose in any court action since anyone with engine knowledge knows you cannot drive a cracked block for 3 months and not know about it.

    If your to sue anyone it would be the dealer if you can prove engine was fine and not leaking when you took it in else they will insist you drove over something and did the damage.
    It may also be the tech in replacing starter ( which was not the real problem as to no start/ low voltage) torqued the bolts too much and they cracked the block.

    In any case for Lemon law to kick in dealer has 3 bites of apple to fix it and at worst LL would allow a buy back for another Z06 and you pay the cost differences.

    GM does not have to give a new car when warranty is to replace faulty parts and if GM decides it was done by abuse they do not even have to honor the warranty.
  • alenatasevich1 makes some good points to back up his assertion that he needs to be compensated with a new car however I feel that russla has stated some good common sense also. What will eventually matter is what documents were signed at delivery and what the lemon laws are for the state.
    Lets use alenatasevich1's situation and use an Impala or a Korean car... do you think a replacement would also be warranted? although an Impala is not an 80k car however it has value none the less to the owner. A company can not stay in business if it replaced repairable cars with brand new cars.
  • They should give you a new car. BUT my friend had an
    '02 M3. Transmission failed three times. BMW kept replacing/fixing it, but finally he got sick of it and traded in the car for a newer M3. No tranny problems yet with the replacement. My opinion is BMW should have replaced his car too, but I just wanted you to know you aren't alone out there, other manufacturers have treated other customers the same way.
  • I've been reading the Z06 numbers and they sound incredible. I want one but I can't afford it. I had a few Qs for the experts.

    The Z06 is a supercar and the 400hp vette is not bad. Why does Chevy leave the engine up front? Is there any technical reason or is it just that their assemly lines are set up to do front-engine cars? Is there any REAL advantage to a mid or rear engine or is it just ferrari and porsche hype?

    Why doesn't the Z06 (or the Enzo for that matter) have a supercharger on it? Could a supercharger coupled with a smaller (possibly tougher) engine keep the weight down? I've read about racing engines generating 700+ HP out of less than 3L of displacement. Have computers and better intake designs obviated the need for superchargers?

    What does it take to get 10s in a quarter mile? Hopped up EVOs can do it, but it seems cars that cost much MUCH more can't. What gives? Is it marketing? Are these EVOs going to wear out in, like, a week? Can the EVOs do anything other than rocket down a straight line?
  • starrow68starrow68 Posts: 1,142
    Interesting questions and I'm sure not the best one to answer since I just got into performance cars a couple years ago. As far as the numbers, I've seen and talked to those who think the numbers on the new Z06 are conservative, fwiw.

    As far as the front vs. mid or rear engine design I've read a lot about the trade-offs for each which seems to be the major issues. Porsche has perfected the rear engine design flaw and many use its advantages to get tremendous performance but for the average driver it can be a handful. The front engine has been evolved into an almost 50/50 weight package that makes the car easier to drive but can also give up something at the limits of performance which very few can explore. Mid-engine is ideal but seems not to lend itself to mass production or mass marketing.

    The small engine supercharger is a good solution for some applications but not likely for road racing, which is what many in sports cars like to do. The power isn't as linear according to some, I've never driven one on track, and makes the handling an issue. If all you want to do is go straight, enjoy the power. The fact that engines w/o SC's can easily get to 400 hp makes them good for road courses, anything over that is a race car and goes far faster than stock safety equipment should be pushed.

    About the Evo's and STI's they are good on road courses but they are really ralley cars and have a higher COG than sports cars. The AWD seems to cover up driver error until you get to the limits, again, and then when they have issues they have more rolls than what I see anything else doing on track. Although lately I've seen a few Corvette's into walls, at least they were sitting firmly on all four wheels. As to the longevity of boosted cars and work done by backyard tuners I wouldn't have a clue.

    I didn't get my first Vette until the kid was out of College, Good luck!
  • fdudefdude Posts: 1
    I have been reading the postings about the car with the cracked block. Terrible!!! My car has 400 miles on it, I don't drive it much. I was not leaving it in reverse when parked, but after reading these postings, I will be for sure.

    I do have a question for all of you mechanical Vette people. I was driving up to a traffic light, slowing down, and heard a loud bang. At first I thought something had smashed up in the wheel well or I had a tire blow-out. However, I didn't hit anything, the tires were fine, BUT the stereo, etc. had gone to Driver 2 settings. I hope that the "pop" that I heard was not electrical but I'm not so sure now. I have been having a problem with the memory settings for the seats and the power telescoping wheel seems to have a mind of its own sometimes. I've been driving and the wheel would move in or out on its own.

    I am VERY concerned about this noise that I heard. I hope that something didn't crack (like the other Z06) or break. If anyone has ANY insight, please let me know what that could have been.
This discussion has been closed.