Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Honda Civic vs Toyota Corolla vs Mazda3

1161719212229

Comments

  • tseoshtseosh Posts: 26
    ..."Many people buy a Toyota based on what they read in CR, which is a biased rag. But I digress............"

    Don't want to get too far off topic, but are you suggesting that CR makes up statistical data for its reliability ratings to support a bias for Toyota? Or do you simply disagree with the criteria CR uses in road tests?

    I've always considered CR, and especially the reliability ratings, to be the least biased automobile ratings/evaluations available to US consumers. What am I missing? What exactly is the bias? Thanks-
  • jlawrence01jlawrence01 Posts: 1,828
    Just curious since you like GM cars, did you ever test drive a Cobalt?

    I like GM mid-sized and full sized cars. I rented several Cobalts (as well as several of the Saturns and I just didn't like them,

    The Cobalts, IMO. reminded me of the Cavalier. The Saturns were just plain uncomfortable.

    Gas mileage was fairly unimpressive 27 miles (which is what the GM midsized V-6s were getting.

    Let's be blunt. GM has never made it a priority to build a well made compact car.

    Personally, several of my friends drive SMART Cars that they imported from Canada and retrofitted. However, after all the costs, you are laying out $25k+ (yes, I have seen the invoices and bills).

    Many of the cars that I really like in the compact/ subcompact class are ineligible for importation - Peugeot 205, Nissan Micra, etc.
  • jlawrence01jlawrence01 Posts: 1,828
    That's all the problems my family and I have had in the last 15 years or so with Accords. At 172k miles in my current one, I'm befuddled by a "blown" engine. What model/year was that car, if I may ask?

    And I have had 30+ Taurus without a blown transmission. That is almost a record.

    I believe that it was a 2000 Accord sedan. The blown engine didn't phase me. Stuff happens. The dealer's response was stunning.
  • steve333steve333 Posts: 200
    CR gets very limited data from its subscriber base, which happens to consist of mostly foreign brand owners (big surprise!). As for road tests, CR testers dont know [non-permissible content removed] from shinola.
    For example. all the car mags (written by people who actually know cars) all heavily praised the Saturn Aura. The car even won COTY from the Automotive Press (over all including the Camry.) CR rated the Aura 31st! Thats right, not second, tenth, twentyeth, thirty first!
    I have read CRs reviews then driven the cars myself and they just plain have it in for domestic cars. They will pick one here and there and say its OK but by and large their reviews are garbage.
    CR does not know much about anything. I think you could probably get an idea about how a toaster or dishwasher will work, but cars? stereos? CR doesn't have a clue.
    Its just sad that people buy things based on CRs recommendations.
  • kwk1kwk1 Posts: 39
    "Its just sad that people buy things based on CRs recommendations."
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    I have to say that I agree with this statement.

    CR tests cars with, people, you guessed it.
    Every person is different, be it wants, needs, comfort, reliability, operating costs, etc..

    If I was interested in 2 cars, and I thought one was gawd-awful looking, I wouldn't buy it cause CR says it's a much better car. I'd have to look at it everyday, so why would I get the ugly one?

    I've had only Chrysler and GM cars till now, but I'm very interested in an Altima. My other choice is a Civic which gets good gas mileage and has good resale value. But you know what, I wouldn't be happy with a Civic. It's too small to be comfortable driving and it's gutless ( for me anyway).

    Just remember, even a car review is only one person's opinion.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,731
    If you are going to rant about CR, at least try to get your facts straight. Currently (April issue), CR ranks the Aura XR tenth (out of 20) in the Family Sedans category. The XE is ranked 15th. And it is far from the truth that "all the car mags ... heavily praised" the Aura--at least not the car mags I read, e.g. C/D and MT. They had some nice things to say, but, for example, the Aura didn't even make the finalists in MT's COTY competition.

    I see bias here, but it's not from CR.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    why don't we get back to comparing the subject vehicles.
  • audia8qaudia8q Posts: 3,138
    thats not fair avi. Just because some are, doesn't mean that they all tend to be.

    it has nothing to do with being unfair.
    He is basing the statement from real world factual survey results. When dealership sales satisfaction is surveyed, the domestics rank very high and Honda and Toyota have tradtionionally at or near the bottom of the list...the thinking has been people will buy the car anyway so why bother with the white glove treatment.
  • eldainoeldaino Posts: 1,618
    my experiance was the exact opposite. I could claim that all mazda dealers suck, but i didn't and they don't.
  • nj2pa2ncnj2pa2nc Posts: 813
    my experience in buying cars has been excellant- no matter which car I purchased. I especially had good experiences with my hyundais, honda and acura.the same dealership sells those cars. everyone has been pleasant and helpful-from the sales manager, salesperson, finance person, service manager, service advisors, technician, billing person. I do have to agree with you the one Mazda dealer we went to was lousy but the other one was the exact opposite.
  • steve333steve333 Posts: 200
    The first review they gave they listed the Aura 31st. I saw it with my own 2 eyes.
    The Aura is in no way 10th out of 20. CR doesnt have a clue.
    As for the Aura reviews they have been overwhelmingly positive. The COTY Award at the Auto show was decided by Automotive Journalists and the Aura came in Number 1, finishing ahead of the Camry.
    You don't see bias in CR? Thats OK, go by their recommendations. Personally I trust folks who actually know what they are doing. But even then I would never buy anything simply because it is recommended, I would always drive it to see if it felt comfortable to me. Sadly though, many people are lemmings and will not even shop around. Thats an ingredient for Toyota and Honda dealers getting arrogant. And consumers getting ripped off.
  • audia8qaudia8q Posts: 3,138
    Thats fine but your experience is based on a few dealers and Avi is basing his statement on the real world survey results from tens of thousands of consumers. You can look up the same results and they can be backed up

    I could claim that all mazda dealers suck, but i didn't and they don't.

    Well based on the same survey results mazda dealers arent so great either....so whats your point?
  • jlawrence01jlawrence01 Posts: 1,828
    Sadly though, many people are lemmings and will not even shop around. Thats an ingredient for Toyota and Honda dealers getting arrogant.

    Two points:

    1) Most people are creatures of habit. If they buy a vehicle and the vehicle does a good job for them, they go back and buy another. (Personally, I would have been happy to buy another Olds ... but GM doesn't make them anymore.)

    2) Many people DO shop around. And they are NOT choosing domestic brands as often as they used to. I have driven every compact car in the US market (as well as several in the Mexican market) and the imports win hands down in that class. Why? Probably because it has been THEIR priority over the years. The domestics have conceded that market in favor of the suburban assault vehicles

    Personally, I use Phil Edmondston's Lemon Aid Guides link title and some of the Canadian publications as tehy tend to be far more objective than CR.
  • steve333steve333 Posts: 200
    The Focus is built on a Mazda platform and is a far better car than the Corolla. The Cobalt is based on a European platform and is also a far better car than the Corolla.
    I'm talking drivability. Reliability the Corolla gets the nod, although they are probably not as far apart as you think. Mileage also the Corolla has the edge. Personally I prefer the power in the Cobalt vs the mileage in the Corolla but thats a personal preference.
    The past is past, when do domestics get a shot again?
    When the first datsuns and toyotas came over they were tin cans. People gave them another shot. Perhaps its time to give domestics a shot also?
    But to bolster your argument I will agree that Ford and GM have not put their best foot forward in the small car segment. The European Focus is far better than the domestic Focus and probably one of the best small cars in the world-so why does America get a second best platform?
    As for GM I expect good things from the next Cobalt since the current one is pretty good, and the Saturn Astra is coming over from Europe this year.
    But they have to keep constantly improving their small cars (and all their other cars too) in order to compete and win back market share.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    The car even won COTY from the Automotive Press (over all including the Camry.) CR rated the Aura 31st! Thats right, not second, tenth, twentyeth, thirty first!

    Yet, Motor Trend named the Camry Car of the Year. LOL

    May I ask how you decide one magazine is better than others at reviewing? Hundreds of thousands of subscribers disagree with what you said, and suddenly their cursed by ya? :confuse: Just because a vehicle doesn't get glowing reliability ratings doesn't mean EVERY vehicle will have a problem, just that a higher number of those sampled reported problems. You may drive a car rated lowest in reliability and never lay out a dime after 100k miles on repairs.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    The past is past, when do domestics get a shot again?

    When they make good vehicles. Look at the Ford Fusion. Look at the Chevrolet Impala. These cars are doing well! The Fusion is quite competitive. The Impala has a quality feel not seen in GM products in a looooong time. The Cobalt hasn't benefitted from the Impala's upgrades yet, IMO. Just a little too cheap feeling inside.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    C'mon folks, we're supposed to be comparing the three subject vehicles here. We're wandering aroung too much and for too long.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Perhaps you should create a discussion comparing the Cobalt? Or visit the economy sedans $16k-20k board so we won't get this particular discussion off track. I'll join ya there, it is a good place to discuss MANY brands of vehicles.
  • steve333steve333 Posts: 200
    OK, see ya there
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Nissan vehicles are less reliable than GM.

    I respectively disagree, and I will leave it at that.

    Many people buy a Toyota based on what they read in CR, which is a biased rag. But I digress............

    CR bases their reliability ratings on subscriber reviews. Many who subscribe to CR, live and die by their ratings. Most of their subscribers only buy the highest rated cars. That to me means it is a bit flawed. Many are not getting the complete spectrum of all reliable vehicles, I believe many are left out that should not be, perhaps. However, their recommended vehicles do deserve to be recommended.

    In my opinion, Toyota's are over rated. They will run forever, but offer some of the worst driving dynamics. But, I am young. Toyota's average buyer is 51-55 (many are well over 60). Many, not all, in that age group do not car about performance or handling. Also, with that age group, many do not push their vehicle either, making it more reliable. Younger people tend to drive cars harder, making them more suseptable to problems. Look at Buick. They are recommended by CR, but every mechanically identical GM product is not. Buick drivers are much older and barley drive the car to begin with.

    Personally, I believe GM products are getting better. I am not at the point where I would buy one, though. I have owned a Toyota, Mitsubishi, Honda, and Mazda. All have been great, with over 100,000 miles on all, except the Mazda (current vehicle with 30,000)
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    And I have had 30+ Taurus without a blown transmission. That is almost a record.

    My family has owned 4 Taurus, among many other Fords, all with well over 100,000 miles, and virtually no problems. No tranny repairs or engine repairs on any of them. She still has the '97 Taurus with 148K and only repair has been the park gear cable ($75 part) other then normal maintence. Current vehicle is a '04 Mustang V6 Conv. with 45K, problem free.

    I do not think Fords are all that bad. Some are pretty good. Look at the rating on the Fusion, they are great.
  • eldainoeldaino Posts: 1,618
    Well based on the same survey results mazda dealers arent so great either....so whats your point?

    simply that i won't base my opinions on a dealer based on one experience or ratings i have not read. (and don't feel like i should have to, since my dealings with buying cars and my comments on dealership experience have never been of a 'all [insert car make] dealers suck' sort of nature.)

    fair enough?
  • jasmine5jasmine5 Posts: 9
    Hey Grad - Doesn't Ford own Mazda?
  • autonomousautonomous Posts: 1,769
    Toyota's average buyer is 51-55
    What source did you use to get that information?

    Do you know what is the average age of the Honda buyer and of the Mazda buyer?
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "Hey Grad - Doesn't Ford own Mazda?"

    Ford own's a 'controlling interest' in Mazda. They actually OWN 33.4% of the company. This is different from Jaquar/Aston Martin and Volvo where these companies ARE 100% owned by Ford.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    What source did you use to get that information?

    Internal Mazda resources. Just "google" it, and there are numerous automotive websites that state it.

    Do you know what is the average age of the Honda buyer and of the Mazda buyer?

    Mazda claims to have the youngest buyer, overall. I am not sure about Honda. My guess is it's somewhere in between.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Ford own's a controlling interest' in Mazda.

    Keyword "interest". Does not mean "own". This is a common misconception in the automotive industry when the two companies are talked about.
  • steve333steve333 Posts: 200
    True, but Ford runs the brand basically.
  • autonomousautonomous Posts: 1,769
    Mazda claims to have the youngest buyer, overall. I am not sure about Honda. My guess is it's somewhere in between.
    This profiling of car brands seems like a marketing mash-up. What's interesting is when one sees obvious misalignments of the marketing spiel and the buying reality as in the case of the Honda Element (which was targetting a youthful audience and got snapped up by a more senior group). Also, I wonder if the buyer's profile is more likely related to the "image" of the vehicle rather than the manufacturer. For example, would a younger buyer prefer a Toyota Yaris hatchback or a Mazda Tribute?
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    I'm not quite sure I follow. The Yaris is not targeted twards the same group the the Tribute is.

    My statement was directed twards the respective companies as a whole. Mazda has they youngest average buyer.

    A closer analogy would be the buyer of a Mazda6 vs Toyota Camry. The Mazda6 has a buyer is in their mid to late 30's, where the Camry has buyers that average early to mid 50's.

    The Mazda3 (early 20's to early 30's)and Toyota Corolla buyer will be closer in age then the Camry and Mazda6 buyer.
This discussion has been closed.