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Mercedes' new 32-valve V8

mac320mac320 Posts: 147
edited March 20 in Mercedes-Benz
It was written in a recent auto review that, "Mercedes' new 32-valve V-8 won't find its way into the M-class for at least a year." As the driver of a '03 ML500, I appreciate MB's current V8.

Even so, the link below ("DaimlerChrysler AG Mercedes 5L SOHC V-8") not only talks about what is to be liked about MB's current V8, it also provides interesting comparative data for the next one:

http://waw.wardsauto.com/ar/auto_wards_ten_best/

e.g., "The 500E's V-8 [from the '90's] made 322 hp and 354 lb.-ft. of torque."

The stats for MB's current "350" V6, factored up to a V8--4.67L making 357 hp and 344 ft. lbs. of torque--compares pretty well to the stats for the 500E powerplant that apparently offered awesome power in its day, and that makes me pretty interested to consider the next ML with the new V8, especially if it is in the ~$50K price range instead of the 500E's $80K.

It also is interesting to see how well the current 5L V8 holds up under the same comparison, i.e., at 325 ft. lbs. of torque at the same low 2700 rpm, the current "500" would be closer to matching the new V8 that that it was to the venerable 500E's powerplant.

What I think would be most interesting, however, is if MB's new V8, when matched with the new 7-spd tranny, might allow the new ML to post expected hwy miles of more than 22 mpg--while towing a 21' V8-inboard--because that would be better than my old VW beetle..
:shades:

Comments

  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    The new V8 specs have been released already. The 4.5L V8 will make 342hp and the 5.5L will make 388hp, then subtract about 6 hp for each for the U.S. market.

    It is well known that the new V8s won't make it into the M,E,CLS,SL,R and next gen G-Class until the 2007 model year.

    That would be too many models to update at once I think. The new S-Class will run the new V8 for about 4-6 months before everything else starts to get it.

    The new AMG V8 will also show up in various AMG models for the 2007 model year also.

    The current 4.3 and 5.0L SOHC V8s served their purpose well and were pretty good tech-wise up until a few years ago. The 5.0L is especially dated when it comes to hp for an engine of that size, and it has only a slight torque advantage compared to some smaller competitor V8s.

    M
  • mac320mac320 Posts: 147
    Interesting: 5.5L is the displacement of MB's AMG-tuned V8 (24-valve non-supercharged) that delivers 362 hp. Based on the avilable hp, providing 388 hp for a non-AMG V8 of the same displacement--and probably at a much more conservative compression as well--is siginificant.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Yes...I agree. For a 5.5L V8, 388hp is very conservative IMO. Especially since this new unit is of the DOHC,32V variety with all the breathing tricks introduced on the new V6 last year. It has always been said that MB goes for durability and long life compared to outright hp superiority on their regular lineup engines. They have never had class leading hp, but usually have class leading torque though. I suspect that next round of AMG models of the SLK,CLK and C-Class will get an AMG version of this new 5.5L with 420+ hp.

    M
  • mac320mac320 Posts: 147
    the next S500's 383 ft. lbs of torque--from the new V8 probably (which means some huge 333 ft. lbs of it is probably available at just 1500 rpm)--will be an impressive contribution to performance. I think I would like to have a ML500 with that engine.
    :shades:
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    You will get that chance for the 2007 model year ML500.

    M
  • mac320mac320 Posts: 147
    It is interesting that an even newer engine technology, a 32-valve, 6.2L V8, may show up even sooner in the ML than the V8 version of the current “350” engine—making its debut appearance in the ML before appearing in any other MB model—as the ML63 AMG.

    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=106510

    According to the above, MB even pulled 2-ton trailers in the hills of Germany with it. Although I guess it probably will be a $75K ML, it does seem to be an impressive drivetrain, and very exclusive considering only 100 engines per day are to be hand built and apparently will power all AMGs across MB's line (eg., the E55 with a 5-spd auto will be replaced by an E63 with a 7-spd tranny, and etc.).

    :shades:
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Yeah that was a curious decision to debut such an engine in a SUV. I suspect that the next car will be the CLK, since for 2006 CLK55 AMG Coupe has been dropped from the U.S. lineup.

    Since the facelifted E and SL aren't ready for viewing yet, the next CL hasn't been presented, and the S-Class introduction already has enough content, AMG had no other "new" or newer model to debut the engine in. My pick would have been the CLS first. But the CLS did debut as a 2006 model so it has a while to go before the 2007 model year here in the U.S. I'm reading that the ML63 will be here next spring or early summer which is about the time the ML500 should be the new V8 from the S-Class. I'm curious as to whether or not there will be any "450" variants of the ML or R-Class in this country. The upcomming S450's 4.6L V8 should make about 335hp.

    I'm a little worried that this new AMG engine won't equal or surpass the performance of the current 5.5L SC V8 in the E,S,CL,SL, and CLS "55" models because it doesn't have as much torque. On the German car boards they're telling me not to worry because the new engine's lighter weight combined with the 7-speed tranny will equal the straight-line performance of today's SC cars, and provide better handling as a result of less weight. We'll see.

    M
  • mac320mac320 Posts: 147
    Well, here are my guesses . . .

    MB has been doing eveything from low displacement V6s to high-perf., SC'd V8s (and V12s too) with the same 90-degree "V" block. Now that improved heads have been added to it (retiring the twin spark, three valves per cylinder heads), I thought the next improvement would be direct injection.

    Maybe the ML63's new block--that among other things does not require cylinder sleeves--will be the next all-purpose component block and will replace the current block across the MB line.
    :shades:
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I doubt if the tech from the new AMG V8 will spread across the MB lineup, too expensive I think. From everything I'm seeing about this new V8, its literally a racing engine, just like the V10 in the BMW M cars. That kind of tech costs.

    Direct-injection - I could have sworn the new 3.5L V6 was direct injection when I first read about it, but it isn't.

    In the hybrid S-Class the 3.5L V6 is fitted with direct injection and it makes 292hp. That may be added to the E350 and the S350 when the E is facelifted and if MBUSA decided to bring over the new S-Class in "350" form.

    M
  • The next, new, 32-valve, engine--that is not based on the new "63" block, was confirmed in a press release yesterday . . . a 5.5L that makes it debut as an S550.

    "MONTVALE, N.J., Oct. 24 /PRNewswire/ -- Mercedes-Benz today announced new nomenclature for its flagship sedan. The model year 2007 S-Class will be named the S550. . .delivering 382 horsepower and 391 lb.-ft. of torque, the first of a new-generation V8 engine family featuring four-valve-per-cylinder technology and variable valve timing . . ."
    :shades:

    P.S., That easily bests MB''s last 32-valve V8 in the '90s that was thought to be a firebreather in its day (322 hp and 354 ft. lbs. of torque). Considering the "63" will show up first in the new ML, I would have to guess that the new "550" must be planned for the '07 ML, in addition to the "S-Class." That is something to look forward to: our ML500 probably will have about 80K miles on it by then.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Yeah I'm not sure why they waited until now to remame the car the S550 because the "S500" that went on sale in Europe last month has the same exact engine. :confuse: Yes the old DOHC 32V V8 was a monster back in the day, and the particular hp/torque figures you qouted are from its application in the legendary W124 500E/E500 of the early nineties. Abosolutely loved that car!

    Well as always a new engine starts out in one model and the spreads rather quickly. Yep for 2007 I'm betting on a CLK550, CLS550, E550, ML550, R550, GL550, and SL550. Question is where does the related 4.6L V8 with 335 hp fit in beyond the S450? I can't see anything past maybe a M, R, and GL450 being sold here.

    M
  • cassiricassiri Posts: 40
    Any updates on when it will make it into the ML? The dealers seem to think not this year.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    For some reason both the ML500 and R500 keep the old V8 for the 2007 model year. Not sure why.

    M
  • oddyoddy Posts: 9
    i am very close to buying a ml500 - however to get an 07 i have to wait until oct 1st.

    does anybody have any idea when we are likely to see the 550 block in the ml?

    thanks
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I have no idea and clearly don't understand as to why the 07' ML keeps the old 5L V8. Every other "500" changes to a "550" model for 07' except the ML/R500 models. :confuse:

    M
  • mydmyd Posts: 1
    I have a 2002 ML500. I am waiting for the ML550. It will likely be announced around the end of 2006 or early 2007.
This discussion has been closed.