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FERRARI 599 - The Best Ferrari Ever?

clarencehollowclarencehollow Posts: 60
edited October 4 in Ferrari
I do not know if this is the best Ferrari ever but ever since I was a kid in the 70's I loved this car. I think the Ferrari 600 is stunning, and I would buy this car in an instant if I had the resources.
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  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,918
    You can get more info about the Ferrari 600 in our Future Vehicles section of InsideLine.com.

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  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I hope the proportions aren't ruined that front-mid engine placement like on the 612 Scagletti.

    M
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 16,755
    but I've been a tifosi even longer than you, I was a kid in the 50s and 60s and IMO any car that can be considered the "Best Ferrari Ever" has a tall order to fill.

    I have no doubt that the 600 will be really fast but it won't be faster than an Enzo, an FXX or even an F40. I'm not even sure it'll be that good looking, at least based on the spy shots that are kicking around.

    To get some historical perspective, see the new magazine Motor Trend Classics (Sept 2005). They had a panel of real experts including people like Luca diMontezemolo, Dan Gurney, Chuck Jordan and Mario Andretti nominate the "10 Best Ferraris".

    I won't spoil the surprise by telling you which Ferrari won out but it wasn't a current car
    and it's doubtful that Ferrari or anyone else will ever make one that's better.

    Merc, I'm fine with the proportions of the 612, I think it looks great even if it's a bit big for a Ferrari.

    2000 BMW 528i, 2001 BMW 330CiC

  • tsaupe1tsaupe1 Posts: 166
    It's tough to really judge those lines in the spy shots and I think it would be tough to beat the Maranello in looks. Like Andy, and I know I'm a minority, I like the 612. Sure, it's bigger, it's a plus 2, actually, it appears to have as much room as 456. Actually, I saw one the other day parked next to a 360 and a Maserati Quattroporte and the size was less of an issue. Bigger, but not dwarfing the 360 and looking small beside the Maser.

    Anyway, any new Ferrari is looked forward to by me!
  • When I first glanced at the spy shots, I thought I was looking at a Corvette from the side. I know these are spy shots so hopefully the Ferrari 600 will be more distinguished when it is truly revealed. Take a look and compare - the silhouettes are very, very similar in character. The proportions are extremely close. Are those C4 wheels on a Ferrari?

    What happened to the larger Mid-engine cars like the Testarossa and 512's? As far as I am concerned, the Testarossa and evolutionary 512's were the height of Ferrari's design esthetic balancing passion, sport, and elegance. Nothing looked like them then or now. They are iconic cars, even for Ferrari’s standards. To me the F430 and 360 capture a fair amount of that lineage from those great cars with styling cues from the F40 and F50, but the Testarossa series just had more style and panache.

    Why can’t Ferrari build another 12 cylinder mid-engine vehicle? Leave the GT’s to Aston Martin, Mercedes, and yeah, Chevrolet or Dodge.

    Best Ferrari ever – on paper maybe. On the blend of style, substance, and prestige: it looks like a Vette from the side, it is guaranteed to perform and hall #$%, and it still is a Ferrari even if looks like something else.
  • For all intents and purposes, the 600 IS the new Testarossa. I think with the performance they get from the mid-engined V-8s, Ferrari realized a 12-cylinder model would be redundant considering they have an Enzo in that niche, albeit way more expensive than the last Testarossas offered. They made the switch to the front-mid-engine layout with the Maranellos to emulate the classic Daytona and appeal to the nostalgic, dual-purpose, gentleman-racer-type buyers from their golden age who demand 12 cylinders from a "proper" Ferrari. Moving the engine back to the front solves a lot of packaging problems as well, like storage space, cooling and visibility. The 600 takes that a step further by offering a modern Testa Rossa (as in the original front-engined racers from the 50's and 60's).

    With hp from their V-8 pushing 500, a rear-mid-engined 12-cylinder would need an Enzo-like 600+ hp to justify its existence, and it's hard to imagine there is a need for that AND an Enzo-type halo car. They now have a great lineup that appeals to almost every potential owner: A relatively affordable entry-level model that offers world-class track-like performance and classic mid-engined Pinninfarina styling; A blazingly fast yet refined 2 + 2; A front-engined V-12 that promises extremely high performance limits; and a halo supercar that offers an experience as close to a Formula 1 ride as possible while meeting the demands of a street car. The only thing I'm looking for is a return to more sensuous styling (instead of the semi-agro, Lambo-like sharp lines of the current lineup) and a V-6 entry-level Dino and Mondial.

    One more note about the styling of the 600, it needs to be more aggressive than the 612. The 612 is elegant and relatively sporty compared to, say, a Bentley GT or CL Mercedes. It is handsome but the long, bulbous nose and plump rump keep it from being sexy, like, say, an Aston Martin. Same thing could have been said about the 456, although the nose was far less offensive. The current Maranellos look like a Mako Shark and the 600 needs to have that same kind of visceral appeal to the senses to win my heart.
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 16,755
    As far as I am concerned, the Testarossa and evolutionary 512's were the height of Ferrari's design esthetic balancing passion, sport, and elegance.

    I think the previous poster did a good job of explaining how the Enzo fills that niche in the current lineup. I'll just point out that yours is a minority opinion, most Ferrari buffs prefer the classic front-engined V-12s although there's always a lively debate between proponents of the Daytona, the 275 GTB/4 and the 250GT.

    Testarossas, 512TRs and even Boxer Berlinettas have fared poorly in the marketplace compared to the values of the aforementioned.

    2000 BMW 528i, 2001 BMW 330CiC

  • I have loved Ferrari's since the days in the early 70's when my father bought and still owns a Pantera GTS 74 and a few of his friends brought theirs over - there are many I love, the title of this thread was just to invoke comments.
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 16,755
    the title of this thread was just to invoke comments.

    That worked out well didn't it? ;)

    2000 BMW 528i, 2001 BMW 330CiC

  • It actually worked out well. Limited posts are ok to me, as is the ownership number of actual Ferrari owners. Exclusivity is alright in my books!
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 16,755
    Exclusivity is alright in my books!

    That leads us to the question of whether Ferrari should make a new Dino,a less exclusive and more affordable Ferrari. Personally I'm in favor, though I doubt they could recapture the voluptuous curves and sporty demeanor of the 246GT/GTS.

    2000 BMW 528i, 2001 BMW 330CiC

  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 16,755
    Exclusivity is alright in my books!

    That leads us to the question of whether Ferrari should make a new Dino,a less exclusive and more affordable Ferrari. Personally I'm in favor, though I doubt they could recapture the voluptuous curves and sporty demeanor of the 246GT/GTS.

    2000 BMW 528i, 2001 BMW 330CiC

  • Actually, the Enzo doesn't fill that niche in the current lineup. It hasn't been produced since the 2003 model year for the U.S.A. I do see the point that the new 600 fills the lineup slot that was held by the Testarossa series and subsequent 575. I also agree that the front engine layout does solve several practical problems but I think the exterior packaging Ferrari has used for these recent designs has been less than appealling.

    The 575 is an attractive car that has the styling cues I personally associate with a Ferrari. The 456 less so, and I think the 612 is just - well its ugly. The 430 looks like a Ferrari. This is not to say that a front engine Ferrari cannot be beautiful - the 275 GTB/4 and Daytona are fantastic designs. I personally like the 365 too. However, of all Ferrari's designs, I think the straked sides and rear engine layout of the Testarossa series is simply more pronounced and recognizable as a model than some of the other designs. The F40, F50, and Enzo are also pronounced but over the top as well. "Halo cars."

    My opinion might also be a factor of my age. I'm 33 and Testarossa posters decorated my bedroom walls in 1987. It was the "if money was no object" dream car of the mid to late 1980s. As far as how they have faired in terms of value in the marketplace, a 512TR might just be one hell of a deal right now. As my generation continues to mature and grows in economic stature it will demand collectibles associated with its adolescence. This is a common and cyclical phenomenon in the collectibles market. Of course, Ferrari's can be highly collectible - especially the best ones of an era. The Testarossa series was by far and away the best of its era.

    Back to the discussion of the 600. When I look at those spy shots, they must have tried to camouflage it as a Corvette. The proportions are just so close. For Ferrari's sake, I sure hope it is a good optical illusion.
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 16,755
    While I don't share your enthusiasm for the TRs, I do understand it. Here's a nice shot from this year's Concorso Italiano in Monterey CA=>

    http://www.barchetta.cc/All.Ferraris/images/1809/05monterey-j-1125.jpg

    2000 BMW 528i, 2001 BMW 330CiC

  • You know wrinklemash has a good point. It ultimately comes down to personal taste and your budget could dictate many things, however to illucidate the point he made, there are some pretty good buys on the Testarossa. I have seen them in the $50K range, but it would be a hard decision since I have spotted some equally good buys on the Countach ...

    A new Dino? Nice thought, but price point would never be under $100,000 I think. It's still a high ticket car price whether it's a Shelby, Viper or NSX, a 100 G's is a lot to spend on a set of wheels. But I don't know if I want Ferrari's mass produced. Last time I checked, I think there were like 55,000 Ferrari's in the world.

    600 still looks rather mean and potent to me. I forgot to add that I think the absolute coolest Ferrari ever is definately the F-50.
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 16,755
    I forgot to add that I think the absolute coolest Ferrari ever is definately the F-50.

    Well if you want to talk about coolest Ferrari ever, IMO it's the blue car (#7) in this painting=>
    image

    Stirling Moss won the 1960 Goodwood Tourist Trophy race in Rob Walker's Ferrari 250GT SWB. After lapping the field twice Moss decided he could relax a little bit and finished the race listening to the car radio. :P

    How cool is that? ;)

    2000 BMW 528i, 2001 BMW 330CiC

  • I am getting myself in trouble... I guess we or I could say if catagorized the 1960 250GT SWB definately is "the coolerst" Ferrari at that time, and still is in proper context soley as a car. You are correct sir, and will get no argument from me.

    Grand Prix Legends has an autographed Sterling Moss print of the winning car!
  • I am getting myself in trouble... clarencehollow

    Na! Your not in trouble and it isn't that tough. The great thing about Ferrari's and their heritage is that there is something for virtually anyone. There are so many great cars you can make an argument for as the best.

    Incidently, I did some research on the prices of the Testarossa on the FerrariUSA website and edmunds. A Testarossa ranges from $40K to $75K, a 512TR is $95K to $110K, and the F512 M is a stout $160K. Each successive model year was (in general) produced in smaller numbers. The 512TR is more scarce than the Testarossa, and the F512 M is very rare. I think I read that only 75 were built for one year. So yes, depending on your price point, this particular dream car is within reach for many buyers/collectors.

    Also, the 600 does look athletic.......like a Corvette. I hope that's just the camouflage.
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 16,755
    similar to the one I saw in a magazine (sorry can't recall which one.)=>

    image

    2000 BMW 528i, 2001 BMW 330CiC

  • tsaupe1tsaupe1 Posts: 166
    Wrinklemash, don't forget that the later TR variations, while smaller in production runs also had far better performance than their predecessors. By then the TR was a seasoned design and more reliable as well. Not that the original TR had major issues.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    For all intents and purposes, the 600 IS the new Testarossa.

    The power of suggestion:

    F600 Testarossa

    M
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 16,755
    Interesting that they plan to revive the Testarossa name but red valve covers are the norm in current Ferraris IIRC.

    2000 BMW 528i, 2001 BMW 330CiC

  • xkssxkss Posts: 722
    The Ferrari 550 Maranello has won several sports cars races, but will the new 600 Imola be raced?
  • I'm a big fan of the GT, personaly I think that anything resembling a 250GT is the true essance of the mark. I followed a Scagletti the other day, and was thinking how much nicer a smaller version of this car would look. Now dreams will come true.
  • I have not mentioned the Ferrari F50 in my posts and well, I have reviewed my favorite Ferrari's, and have to say the F50 is in my Top 3 ... something I failed to mention previously. :shades:
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    image

    image

    image

    Just some pics I pulled from another forum. Not sure if they're official, but the way they are shot say classic Ferrari press release. Is this newest Ferrari supposed to debut at Detroit next week? If so these could be the real thing.

    M
  • tsaupe1tsaupe1 Posts: 166
    Ferrari will be showing the new F430 Challenge car, a two-tone 612 Scaglietti and an FXX. Nothing on the owner's site regarding the 600. Usually those unveilings take place at Geneva.
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 16,755
    Everybody's entitled to their opinion but for me the F50 doesn't cut it next to the F40 or the 288GTO. It doesn't crack the top ten on my list of favorite Ferraris.

    2000 BMW 528i, 2001 BMW 330CiC

  • Hey - Ferrari fooled us - according to edmunds this is Ferrari 599 for 5,999cc of displacement.

    Previously, I had been complaining that the car in the spy photos looked like the most recent generation of corvettes. I think the Ferrari 599 definitely sets itself apart. However, in its overall proportions it does have some similarities. What if those headlight clusters were arranged horizontally and front fenders were less distinct?

    I like the turned up wing in the back but what happened the multiple taillights? I'm not real crazy about those single taillights.

    As far as the best Ferrari ever? I bet this thing blows the doors off the 575, 550, or Testarossa series which are the fair comparisons.

    In the looks department - overall better looking than the new 2+2. Definitely more aggressive and high in pinnache. Its better looking than the outgoing 575m. Sorry, I still think the Testarossa series looks better and hey that 288 is a bad [non-permissible content removed] machine too.

    Given the choice between the Ferrari and an Aston Martin - since styling is so important to me - its the Aston hands down.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Yeah I'm reading about the specs now, 620hp! It looks like it will eat the road for sure, but I gotta see this car in person. Some elements look a little busy, especially the various scoops/vents on the side.

    M
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