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Economy Sedans (~$16k-$20k)

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Comments

  • nhgirl2nhgirl2 Posts: 2
    Thank you so much for the advice, backy and dcdriver. I decided to suck it up and buy the Accord, so it's now sitting in my driveway!
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,727
  • Good choice. Choose a car with side airbag/ABS as standard. It pays for itself. You'll have lower insurance premium and when its time to trade it up, you'll get more resale value. Why? Because in the future, side airbag will be standard on all vehicle. Nobody will ever want a vehicle without side airbag.
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    And the point of the post being?...geesh, how does this contribute to the topic of this thread??? Relevance???

    Your consistent bashing and putting down certain brands have gotten old, really old...
  • tenpin288tenpin288 Posts: 804
    Maybe he needs to take a look at where his favorite brand, Volkswagen, is listed. ;)
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,727
    That is true (4th from the bottom). Also I thought this quote from the press release was interesting:

    Porsche makes the largest percentage improvement in its VDS score, while Hyundai experiences the largest reduction in problems reported by owners. ... Although still hovering below the industry average, Hyundai records a dramatic 115 PP100 improvement (31%).

    "Hyundai experienced similar levels of improvement in the 2002 IQS, when these vehicles were new, which shows a successful effort by Hyundai in translating short-term quality improvements into higher long-term quality," said Parker. "Even though there is still room for improvement, Hyundai is a great example of an automaker that is making strides toward improving vehicle quality by paying close attention to owner feedback and designing products with both short- and long-term quality in mind."


    So it looks like some makers of economy sedans are making great strides in improving their short- and long-term quality, while other brands... well, not as much.
  • Perhaps you should reread the 2006 VDS (and not quote the 2005). There is NO mention of Hyundai. The fact that Hyundai has FALLEN 3 places (as compared with 2005 results)from 20th place (2005) to 23rd place (2006) shows that Hyundai is NOT improving as compared with other brands. For the record, Hyundai improved a grand total of 7 PP100 from 2005, a lovely 2.7%, BELOW the industry average improvement of 4.2%.

    Perhaps all those Elantra shimmy problems finally caught up with them.

    "So it looks like some makers of economy sedans are making great strides in improving their short- and long-term quality, while other brands... well, not as much."

    Really?
    Hyundai (23rd) 2.7%

    Toyota (5th) 7.7%
    Honda (7th) 3.5%
    Nissan (20th) 12.0%
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,707
    for shaking at Super Bowl referees. In other words, they're worth enough to me to take and roll them up and shake them at referees, much like Bobby Knight would do while coaching Indiana Hoosier basketball.

    Let me break it to you this way. I have bought two new Kia's in a row and nary a single press release regarding new Kia car quality (initial or otherwise) has ever persuaded me one teeny-weenie iota into wanting to buy a VW, Subaru, Toyota, Hyundai, Saab, Mitsubishi, Volvo, Merceds-Benz, BMW, Daimler-Chrysler, Ford, Honda, Nissan, Isuzu or...or..did I leave one out? Do ya get my point?

    Who reads these things and takes them seriously? I mean re-he-ha-he-ha-he-haa-ree-eee-aaaaaaaa-lllll-yyyyyyyyyyyyyy! Dumb and even dumber at half the cost. I know one thing, I will never buy a new VW from anybody, including Kobe Bryant.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    Are you just about finished with your irrelevant (to this thread) propaganda?

    The press release (06) does mention Kia as being one of the two most improved brands in the study. "Kia has improved twice as much as any other brands in the past three years, improving 87PP100 (22 percent) from 2005". Signs of improvement despite being ranked in the bottom of the group - one of its models are ranked in the top three in sub-compact.
  • "I have bought two new Kia's in a row and nary a single press release regarding new Kia car quality (initial or otherwise) has ever persuaded me one teeny-weenie iota into wanting to buy a VW, Subaru, Toyota, Hyundai, Saab, Mitsubishi, Volvo, Merceds-Benz, BMW, Daimler-Chrysler, Ford, Honda, Nissan, Isuzu or...or..did I leave one out? Do ya get my point?"

    Probably because press releases are incapable of depositing more money into your bank account :)
  • "Are you just about finished with your irrelevant (to this thread) propaganda?"

    I fail to see how posting reliability information for a brand highly discussed on this board who produces many cars in the $16-20K price range is irrelevant. And since when is JD Power's survey's "propaganda?" It's only "propaganda" when it doesn't show Hyundai is a great light, right?
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,727
    Well, it really would have helped had I clicked on the right link! :blush:

    So in other words, over the past two years Hyundai has improved its VDS score about 34%. How does that compare to other makes over the same period? Hyundai was 0.8% behind Honda's improvement for the 2006 study. That is bad? If so, it's bad for Honda too I guess.

    Also consider that as of this fall, the only design that was included in the 2006 VDS that Hyundai will still be selling is the low-volume Tiburon. And Hyundai's biggest U.S. seller is being made in a factory that didn't start making cars until 2005. So the VDS for 2006 models and beyond will be very interesting to see.
  • dc_driverdc_driver Posts: 712
    I have never been a big fan of JD Powers surveys. Can anyone tell me what the sample size is for them to determine this? I believe it is about 60K vehicles. I tend to trust Consumer Reports reliability rating more than JD since they have a much larger sample size (over 1 million surveys per year).

    That said, I do not really know what to make of this. In the sub-compact car segment, Kia and Hyundai each had one car in the top three. In the compact segment (closer to the 16-20 range), Honda and Toyota dominated. I would like to know how companies ranked in the compact car segment to determine the impact to the 16-20K range. Perhaps Kia and Hyundai finished 4th and 5th..
  • z71billz71bill Posts: 2,000
    A sample size change from 60,000 to 1,000,000 - would be statistically insignificant. I don't know if 60,000 or 1,000,000 are the actual sample sizes - but even a sample size of 6,000 would be considered VERY large from a statistical point of view.

    I don't feel like doing the math (any statistic teachers out there?) - but going from a sample size of "only" 6,000 up to a sample size of 1,000,000 would increase your confidence in the results by a small amount. Maybe from 99.5% confidence your results are within 1 standard deviation up to 99.6% confidence your result is within one standard deviation.

    Look at the polling results you see on the news - they normally only sample 1,000 people out of a population of almost 300,000,000 and the margin of error is only 3-4 %.

    The problem with Hyundai is its a Hyundai - when they first came to market all they had was cheap junk - and it will take a long time to change people's opinion.

    Ask 1,000 people - if you win the lotto what car would you buy - do you think Hyundai would even get 1 vote? That is statistically significant.
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,781
    For a car less than 20k, it's hard to beat the Accord. There's only one model that lists for less than 20, the VP, which lists for $18,775 for the 5-speed manual. For that price, however, you get 6 airbags, a very advanced engine, stereo, cruise, ac, etc. I've seen this car advertised for sale at a local dealer for $16950. The Accord SE adds a 6-CD changer, alloys, larger tires, EBD, illuminated visor mirrors, steering wheel radio controls, etc, etc.. The list price on this car is 21,225, but I've heard that the last of the 2006's can be had for at or even under invoice, which is about 19,200. It'd be tough to top that for the price.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,727
    Hullo, this is a discussion about "economy sedans." If someone won the lotto, do you think ANY economy sedan would get a vote?

    How many "votes" does Hyundai (in this case, the Elantra) get each year compared to cars like the Mazda3? Does the fact that the Elantra gets more "votes" than the Mazda3 make the Elantra a better car than the Mazda3? I don't think so.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,727
    For less than $20k, it's very easy to top the Accord. Try the Sonata, which can be had with 234 hp CVVT V6, ABS/traction, six airbags, ESC, moonroof, 17" alloys, etc. etc. for well under $20k.

    It still won't get any votes from someone who won the lotto, but a very nice car for under $20k. But not really an "economy sedan", nor is the Accord. An economy sedan would be one that lists for under $20k, e.g. Civic, Corolla, Mazda3, Elantra, Jetta, Sentra.
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    "I fail to see how posting reliability information for a brand highly discussed on this board who produces many cars in the $16-20K price range is irrelevant. And since when is JD Power's survey's "propaganda?" It's only "propaganda" when it doesn't show Hyundai is a great light, right?"

    Last time I checked, this is a thread about economy sedans, including Hyundai and other brands. So, instead of posting overall VDS results (which would be fine), you purposely singled-out one brand and continued your Hyundai bashing parade/posts. Nice going...

    On-topic, I really think the competition will heat up soon, as the new Sentra and Elantra lands at local lots, and the Corolla will follow in the near future (some delay as indicated), although I still think (and personal perference here) the 3 is a player to beat. But as far as sedans are concerned, which make up the bulk of total compact car sales, the new Sentra and Elantra will defn. do wonders for respective car companies.
  • jlemoinejlemoine Posts: 25
    I really enjoy reading these newsgroups, especially enjoy the large following each brand has represented here. I own three Hyundias and love them and won't get convinced to switch, I do have to admit after just returning from a 700 mile trip it appeared every third car was a Toyota Corolla!!
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,752
    I have never been a big fan of JD Powers surveys. Can anyone tell me what the sample size is for them to determine this? I believe it is about 60K vehicles. I tend to trust Consumer Reports reliability rating more than JD since they have a much larger sample size (over 1 million surveys per year).

    The issue is not the sample size but does the sample size represent a cross section of the whole. A sample size of one million that doesn't represent the population as a whole is less accurate that a sample size of 60,000 that does represent the population as a whole. Since CR polls only its subscribers it is not a scientific poll and can be way off. JD powers does a more scientific selection of its poll data so a much smaller sample can provide a more accurate result.

    My issue with JD power is that it lists vehicles as the number of problems per 100 vehicles. Which is better a car with three problems or a car with one? The answer to that would depend on what the three problems are compared to what the one problem. I rather have a car that a knob falls off the radio, the turn signal arm is a little loose and the dome light goes out than a car where the only problem is that the engine blows up.

    That being said it is entirely possible that the car at the bottom of the list is a better car than the one at the top of the list.

    The sign said "No shoes, no shirt, no service", it didn't say anything about no pants.

  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Thank you!! I may call on you the next time people get into a "this car is worse than that car because its Problems & Solutions discussion has more posts." ;)
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
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  • doohickiedoohickie Posts: 949
    Interesting, but there is no "more information" of any use at the link you posted. It says they're doing it; it doesn't have any contact information or anything like that.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Post in the comments section that you are interested and would like more information. Perhaps they will respond to your CarSpace email account, I'm not really sure.
  • luvmbootyluvmbooty Posts: 271
    stats and if only it had received a better side crash rating by IIHS, I think it would give the 2006 Civic a run for its money, by thousands! How could it receive a POOR rating with side curtain airbags! :mad:
  • dc_driverdc_driver Posts: 712
    Kia has a history of receiving "Poor" or "Average" side impact ratings even with side airbags. I would attribute it to:
    - Faulty airbags?
    - Improper head coverage (head hits below the airbag)
    - Improper testing.

    Too bad. Hopefully they will fix this and re-test.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,727
    Hopefully the excellent results on the Sedona will carry over to other Kia offerings in the future. The Spectra is due for a mid-gen refresh soon--maybe the crash protection will be beefed up then.
  • dc_driverdc_driver Posts: 712
    I will say this (note, I am not a Kia/Hyundai owner). The fact that Kia/Hyundai are offering safety features such as side airbags, traction control, stability control, etc standard on so many vehicles (while at the same time pricing their vehicles on the low end) should be applauded.

    This is one of my biggest peeves against Toyota. They typically package their safety features on their higher end vehicles. Glad to see that Honda is following Kia/Hyundai's lead.. Everyone else should follow this example...
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,727
    It'll be interesting to see what safety features Toyota makes standard on the '08 Corolla. They like to compete closely with Honda, and with side bags/curtains and ABS standard on the Civic... hmmm. Also, it has been well-documented that Toyota is keeping a watchful eye on Hyundai, and the '07 Elantra has side bags/curtains and ABS standard.
This discussion has been closed.