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Economy Sedans (~$16k-$20k)

1303133353639

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  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,713
    yeah, if the police started busting people for not signaling I'd be so happy I'd bust out a Jack and Coke and put on some Drive-By Truckers and celebrate. Americans are a gripey, lazy-butt people that could stand a lot more discipline in their lives. I mean, how much trouble is it really to just turn your turn signal stalk?

    Don't you just love it when they do the slow drift thing right in front of you (without signaling, of course :mad: ) and then they slow down, ever so slightly? Yikes, it's a wonder people are able to earn a living in this country, looking at how they drive. Are they holding guns to employers' heads? ;)

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    It is an excellent force of habit and a safe one. How many accidents could be avoided if people realized they had turn signals or at least used them. I once asked someone why they didn't signal and he said he didn't want to have to replace his turn switch..

    I am hoping that market saturation of lane departure warning systems (buzzers and alarms and dancing babies) that go off when you go out of your lane will provide some incentive for people to signal more on the highway, if only to avoid the annoyance of the buzzer/warning.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    I took the Astra XR 5-door for a spin today, posted my comments here:

    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef16b02/200
  • dallardallar Posts: 15
    backy -- nice job on the Astra review....more thorough and informative than anything I've read to date in the car mags. Much appreciated!
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    I took my wife and daughter to a couple of dealers just after closing today to see what they thought of some cars at the top of my "consider" list for this fall. Now that the 2009 Fit has dropped off the list (due to VSC only being available on the top-end Sport + Nav trim), three cars at the top of my list are the Elantra SE, Optima LX, and Sonata GLS. (Elantra Touring is at the top, but of course it's not at dealers yet.) My daughter (now 12) will get my next car in about 5 years, so I would like it to be something she can live with (style and color-wise). Of course, it needs to meet my criteria first since I'm the one buying it and driving it for the first 5 years.

    First I showed them the Elantra. They only had GLSes but in a good range of colors. Fortunately they had my favorite for the Elantra, carbon grey. (I also know my daughter likes darker colors like grey.) I asked her what she thought of it and she cooed over it--I think she likes its rounded lines, and she liked the color. There was a red one next to it; I like red but she doesn't. OK. There was also blue and silver, but she said she liked the grey best. (Great, since I do too.) Next we looked at the Sonata. They had my favorite color, medium silver blue, and I asked my daughter what she thought of it. She like it very much (had the grey interior, which I prefer.) I asked her if she liked it better than the other colors, including willow grey, and she said she did. (Two for two!)

    She asked about the Accent. She likes the looks of it. I told her I like it too, but that I won't buy one because it doesn't have very good crash protection, which is important. "But it gets 39 mpg!" she said. Sorry.

    Next we went to the Kia dealer, and looked at Optimas. Again I was lucky and they had a grey EX, which is not the trim I want but outside looks a lot like the LX with Appearance package. I asked my daughter what she thought, and she liked it, and again grey was her fave color. (Yesss!) She also liked how the name was very close to that of the Altima. (For some reason she likes the previous-generation Altima.)

    The Kia dealer also sells Mitsubishis, so my daughter asked "What about an Eclipse?!" I just laughed. Then she asked (tongue-in-cheek I think) if we were going to go over to the BMW dealer. Another good laugh.

    So I asked what she thought overall, and she said she liked the Elantra most, then the Altoptima :) , then the Sonata. Which is the same order I'd put them in, although the choice between the Optima and Sonata would ultimately be based on price since they are pretty even in my book.

    My daughter is an exceptionally bright and discerning child. :D
  • no_oneno_one Posts: 29
    I'm curious as to why the Accent was ruled out? Crash protection in small cars has come a long way. The Accent got four or five stars in every government crash test except for the rear passenger side impact (where it still got three) and it is equipped with front and side-curtain airbags. Is it anything particular about it you felt was unsafe, or just the fact it was a small car?

    Haaaaaaaa, Eclipse. I looked at that one. It was quite entertaining in that the engine really roars with a powerful sound, but then you look at the speedometer and see that you're barely doing thirty. There are many reasons you should have laughed when she asked about that one. ;)
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    The Accent is ruled out because it got only Acceptable on the IIHS frontal crash test, whereas almost every other car designed in recent years has scored Good, and more importantly it got a Poor on the IIHS side crash test. Since several other small cars (and some low-priced mid-sized cars) offer much better crash protection than that, I don't have any reason to settle for the Accent. As I stated, my next car will be handed down to my daughter, and I want it to be as safe a car as possible within my budget, for both active and passive safety. Which is why I'm also looking for a car with ESC.
  • aladdinsanealaddinsane Posts: 182
    backy:

    Do you think there's a good chance Hyundai and Kia will offer ESC on their 2009 Accent and Rio machines?

    I know ESC will become mandatory with all automobiles starting in 2012, I believe.
    Still it would be nice if Hyundai/Kia didn't wait till the last moment to make ESC either standard or optional BEFORE '12, know what I'm sayin'?

    Awaiting your knowledgeable reply...

    Peace!<-AladdinSane- :shades: -
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    I would like to think so. After all, Hyundai was the earlier player adopting to the ESC feature among the mainstream brands.
  • moocow1moocow1 Posts: 230
    Personally I dislike the accent for a lot of reasons. But safety is a huge reason. Small cars ARE safer than the past, but they're still not good in accidents with very large vehicles for deaths per vehicle(See those terrible 5000 lb suvs). Also the accent has EXTREMELY poor crash test ratings from IIHS, I would not trust it for anyone right now. It's Acceptable, POOR, POOR in testing. Most cars at least get a good on the frontal crash test, accent does not. Elantras are far far better than accents in basically every possible category. And the fuel economy isn't even better. Accent auto - 24/33, Elantra auto - 25/33. WTF! :)

    If you want a smaller car than Elantra, go look at a Fit or Versa. At least they have good/good front and side crash ratings. Not that anyone mentioned, but the Aveo is almost as bad as accent. Not good company for safety :) Please get your loved ones a car with a good/good front/side iihs rating please!
  • no_oneno_one Posts: 29
    Personally I dislike the accent for a lot of reasons. But safety is a huge reason. Small cars ARE safer than the past, but they're still not good in accidents with very large vehicles for deaths per vehicle(See those terrible 5000 lb suvs). Also the accent has EXTREMELY poor crash test ratings from IIHS, I would not trust it for anyone right now. It's Acceptable, POOR, POOR in testing. Most cars at least get a good on the frontal crash test, accent does not. Elantras are far far better than accents in basically every possible category. And the fuel economy isn't even better. Accent auto - 24/33, Elantra auto - 25/33. WTF!

    Huh, the NHTSA test weren't nearly as bad, but... yeah... that's pretty terrible IIHS crash test results. And the fuel economy difference is a bit surprising, although Hyundai/Kia isn't the only one where the compact gets better mileage than the compact, since the Chevy Aveo manual is only 24/34 but the Chevy Cobalt XFE manual is 25/36. I guess that doesn't say much for Korean subcompacts.....

    I was looking at the IIHS crash test ratings, apparently the fit got a poor score for rear-end collisions, Versa still had a passing score, but both had good scores for front and side impact, as you said, and both are good alternatives to the Korean subcompacts...
  • moocow1moocow1 Posts: 230
    The new 2009 Fit is coming at least, which should hopefully have a better headrest than the current one. Anyways I certainly think Korean compacts have merit(Elantra and Spectra), but avoid the subcompacts until they are actually on par with the japanese models.

    Subaru seems to be really cleaning up on safety though, all their models have great ratings everywhere and of course they have their little awd advantage. Impreza's still the only compact with a top pick currently...although I think Civic is just as good(just not enough ECS availability yet)

    I'd have taken a more serious look at the impreza if I liked the looks more and if the other features/prices were a bit more comparable. It's certainly great for going into bad weather and being well protected.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    I'd like to think so too but I doubt it. I don't expect ESC on the Accent and Rio until the next redesign. Consider that they used to offer ABS standard on the Accent sedan, then dropped it as a standard feature. So they'll now add ESC (requiring ABS) to the Accent? I really doubt it. More likely that they'll put ESC standard on the Elantra GLS--at least I'd really like to see that.
  • sandman46sandman46 Posts: 1,798
    Do y'all think the '09 Elantra will have this? My oldest has her heart set on the Elantra GLS and would like her to have the best safety equipment if possible. Hopefully, when the '09 model comes out this fall, it'll have it. Luckily our buying time frame is thanksgiving week and possibly into the last week of December.
    I'm hearing that the '09 Civic will also get this feature which will be nice. Miss it on my '06 model, but it's a great car even without it.

    The Sandman :)
  • moocow1moocow1 Posts: 230
    Why not just get the elantra with an upgraded package if safety is that important? I don't see the issue unless you're too cheap :) I only cheap out when it's nice to have, but not required items.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    Don't expect ESC to be standard on the Civic either. In fact, we don't even know yet if it will be available on all Civic trims. Look what Honda did with the 2009 Fit--made VSC available as an option only on the top-of-the-line Sport model with nav. :cry:

    Anyway, we'll know well before December whether the Elantra GLS is available with ESC for 2009. But at the least, your oldest could choose the SE or Touring, which we know have ESC standard--and certainly don't cost any more than a Civic, and probably much less (comparably equipped).
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    Won't be too long now (2011?) all new cars sold in the US will have ESC, as mandated by the Feds. I would think some car company, Honda or maybe Hyundai, would step up and want to be first to offer ESC across its lineup. Both companies will be very, very close to that for 2009. Honda is closest, in that it will offer ESC on at least one trim level on every vehicle it sells here. Hyundai probably won't have ESC on the Accent in 2009 so it will lag a bit behind Honda in the ESC race. Toyota is getting pretty close too, except it makes ESC optional on almost all of its cars, and n/a on the Yaris.
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    VW has ESC standard across the board for 2009MY, IIRC.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    Well, there ya go! Good for VW! I fogot the Rabbit gets ESC standard for 2009. So if they can do it on a $15k car, so can Honda and Hyundai and all the rest.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I wouldn't be surprised to see it on the MMC of the Civic in 2009.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    We know VSC will be available on the 2009 Civic. We just don't know in what form--standard, optional, and on what trim levels? Will Honda do a Fit-like move and make it available only on the EX with nav, as an option? We just don't know yet.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I'd hope it'll be standard across the board, but honestly wouldn't be surprised if Honda cheaped out and put it on EX and EX-L models only.

    They did the same thing with ABS awhile back. It was EX-only.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    Right, for many years (starting in 1992 MY I think), ABS was available (although standard) on the EX. That changed only for 2006 MY.
  • aladdinsanealaddinsane Posts: 182
    Will the suits at Toyota wake up and offer ESC as an option with the 2009 Yaris, at least with the "S" models of both the sedan and LiftBack? Anyone have a clue?

    Peace!<-AladdinSane-<- :shades: -
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Even the Accords only had it standard on the EX models until the 2003 model debuted, making it standard across the line. It was optional on LX models in the '90s, but was a difficult to find option.
  • sandman46sandman46 Posts: 1,798
    Luckily, we've been blessed and $ is not a problem when it comes to new cars for the kids. The problem might be the availability of the SE model when our time frame rolls around. Also the crazy petrol prices have made econoboxes fly out of the dealers, at least here in South Florida. Showed her the Kia Spectra tonight online as a possible alternative choice. The idea of her taking my beloved Civic has also become a possibility with the other girl taking the wife's Mazda 3s. This way we could both get the new cars.
    Decisions, decisions!

    The Sandman :)
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    Please, check out the crash test scores on the Spectra before giving it serious consideration for your daughter. Since you say $ is no problem, I don't know why you'd turn to the Spectra, given the crash-test scores, ABS is available only as an option on the top-trim model, and ESC isn't available at all.

    Have you considered the Optima? Good crash scores and safety equipment, and with discounts and rebates the price would be pretty close to that of an Elantra SE (i.e. Optima LX with ABS/ESC and Appearance pkgs). Also a bit larger and more comfy car, with a more powerful I4 with a 5AT, and FE is not that much less than the Elantra.
  • sandman46sandman46 Posts: 1,798
    Did show her the Optima also...my bad, and she liked it. I did point out the 5 speed tranny as a fuel saving feature. Like the looks of the Spectra as compared to the Elantra...just can't stand the Elantra look. But time will tell about what we'll actually do. They will have a safe, reliable car to drive no matter what. Then in a couple of years, it'll be the boys turn. Thank G-d the wife, a CPA, made good investments for them when they were young.

    The Sandman :)
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I honestly don't put much stock in these surveys, put I thought I'd pass on the winner and runners-up in the compact category.

    Winner: Honda Civic
    Runners-Up: Toyota Prius, Hyundai Elantra
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    Nothing compact about the Prius/Elantra ;)
This discussion has been closed.