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Scion MPG-Real World Numbers



  • kipkkipk Posts: 1,576

    I have re read his post. As I've stated a couple of times above, a lot of that simply goes over my head. I've also expressed disagreement with some of his statements. My only concern is results.

    My present cars are achieving 30-35% better than the EPA ratings. I know from trial and error what works and what does not work. Results!

    I'm more than happy to share that knowledge with others. I feel confident that most folks on this forum are concerned with the mileage others are getting and how they can possibly improve their's.

    Formulas are not going to help most folks, as much as Real World experience.

    I've seen a formula that says a Bumble Bee can't fly! But real world says different, doesn't it!.

    As far as making "Power", again experience is a great teacher. In both practical and observation I "Know" that higher RPM are more capable of increased power than the same engine at lower RPM. As stated earlier, that is why drag racers gear their cars to near red line when they cross the finish line. The idea is to keep the RPM high and develop as much power as possible, with the engine restrictions that are imposed by rules. Of course there are always exceptions.

    Enough time has been spent on this subject. We need to stick to the topic of the forum. Jim can start a new forum "The Care and Feeding of Engines" !

  • jim314jim314 Posts: 491
    My car is EPA rated at 30 mpg highway. (Old system EPA ests. 22/30 city highway.) I have gotten 35 mpg (gas pump calcs, no trip computer) by driving steadily (avoiding passing) at 65 - 70 mph on interstate hwys.

    On a recent round 4000 mile trip, 90% of which was interstate highway or other divided highway, I averaged 31.0 mpg, but much of the trip was climbing and descending. There were long stretches in Arizona and New Mexico where I drove 80 mph (where legal limit was 75 mph), and where I got 34.1 mpg over a 702 mi stretch.

    In another car old EPA est. 17 mpg city / 22 mpg highway(which has a trip computer) I arrived at the following approximate rule of thumb on level ground, which may or may not be applicable to other vehicles, and in any case needs checking:

    For each 1-mph increase in speed over 60 mph this vehicle uses 2% more fuel to cover any given distance. So on the highway if I drive 75 mph rather than 65 mph, I expect to use 20 % more fuel. If I drive 75 mph instead of 60 mph, I expect to use 30 % more fuel.
  • kipkkipk Posts: 1,576
    >"There were long stretches in Arizona and New Mexico where I drove 80 mph (where legal limit was 75 mph), and where I got 34.1 mpg over a 702 mi stretch."

    34 at 80 is good from any angle! :) What type car and drive line configuration?

  • jim314jim314 Posts: 491
    My recent 4000 mile round-trip from Dallas to San Francisco was in my 2004 Volvo V70 base model with naturally aspirated 2.4L inline 5-cyl engine rated at 168 hp on 91 octane fuel. Roof rails, but no crossbars. Tranny is the 5-spd auto made by Aisin AW in Japan. Outbound trip was with two passengers and luggage (est 570 lb), return, driver only and very little luggage (est 230 lb total) . Tires are OE 195/65-15 Michelin MXV4+ Energy (max infl pressure 51 psi) inflated to 41 psi before trip. The tire sticker recommendation is 38 psi. Oil is Mobile1 10W-30 Extended Performance, changed once a year. The last city tank before the trip gave 20 mpg. After the trip the odo read 33,000 miles.

    The vehicle with which I took the fuel use vs speed data is a 2007 Volvo XC90 base model FWD with naturally aspirated 3.2L I-6 and 6-spd auto made by Aisin AW. I would guess that the V70 would have a significantly smaller fuel penalty for faster highway cruising. I'd guess a 1% increase (or less) in fuel consumption per unit distance for each 1-mph increase in speed above 60 mph.
  • mcmanusmcmanus Posts: 121
    At some point mileage goes down as speed increases, that's a given. But mechanical wear also increases as temperatures and stresses increase. Not only on the engine, but on suspension, tires, water pump, etc. too.

    As I drive near beautiful Detroit driving gets dangerous due to speed, potholes (our first sign of spring :cry: ), and distracted drivers. Slow up and get run over. Speed up and chance finding some sort of obstacle in front of you. Like Chicago and major east coast cities, most of the commuting is done towards the sun morning and evening, another serious safety consideration.

    The laws of physics all start piling up against you as speed increases. Stopping distances, control under wet/snow/icy conditions, driver reaction times, mechanical wear, mileage, road grip, impact forces, even noise all increase as speed increases. I vaguely recall a reknowned physicist saying that automotive travel over 50 mph isn't practical on a planet this size. Not quite sure what he meant by that, but its nutty when you can track your daily commute on a 12 inch globe. I kept remembering that idea as we suffered through the years of the 55 mph national speed limit.

    In Europe displacement and/or horsepower are taxed, in case $10/gallon fuel isn't enough of a discouragement. When ground travel is too slow, people move to flying, and pay for that privilege too. Either way, North American drivers are quibbling in comparison to the more expensive options or the safety issues involved. Maybe with the two oil men out of the White House, we'll be able to hold off $4 and $5 per gallon gas for a bit longer.

    I'm interested in this discussion as I'm seriously considering purchase of an '08 xB. I do mostly rural driving (two lane and freeway), so I'm hoping for a 30 mpg average. In any event the Edmund's TCO is a very low $0.43/mile for the current xB. I like the chair like seating, low purchace price, and no haggle pricing too. Easy for Dad (at 83) and me :blush: to get in and out. Can't tell you how many hours wasted playing irksome pricing games with dealers, just to walk out in fustration.

    Yes, I'd like the armrest to be wider, but our Sienna's armrest is almost as bad and we've lived with that for 7 years. I'd like a conventional gauge layout, lower window sills, lower engine speeds at highway speeds, and more than just one intermediate wiper speed (my current ride has 10). Honestly I wanted to like xD, but it won't hold a set of golf clubs without folding down a back seat and the xB's 2.4L engine is better known to us and our mechanics. '09 Corolla was another consideration, but the price is higher for a bigger footprint that has less space inside with that same more efficient/less well known engine and price haggling compared to xB.
  • jim314jim314 Posts: 491
    I don't revel in exceeding the speed limit, and only do it under conditions of low traffic and good road conditions. I recognize that higher speed always reduces the safety margin for an unexpected maneuver. On my recent trip I exceeded the speed limit by 5 mph because most of the other vehicles were doing likewise and I had long distances to cover in specific time intervals because I was sleeping in my vehicle at public campgrounds which closed for the night at about dark. There is always a higher fuel use per mile above say 55 mph, but for the 1735 miles from Wasco CA to Dallas TX (with side trips) I used 52.8 gal of 90 to 91 octane fuel so I averaged 32.9 mpg (driver only and very little luggage), even though I was going up to 80 mph when the limit was 75 mph, and when it was in my judgement "safe" to exceed the limit by 5 mph.

    The upright seating position of the Scion Xb is a great plus, and I wanted one of these at one point, but didn't buy it because my old car (1991 Dodge Spirit 2.5L 5-spd) was reliable and fuel efficient. Then I got a 2004 Volvo V70 as a hand-me-down so I'm released from car shopping for the indefinite future. An Xb would be expected to have a significant fuel economy penalty for speeds over 65 mph, and I would be less likely to do it than in a more aerodynamic vehicle.
  • nthenthe Posts: 414
    I just bought a tC last wed, and my first tank got about 27.7 mpg (about 400 miles on the car).

    oh and as a side note, i picked up the car on wed afternoon, then friday night we had a bad storm with hail, and now my brand new car has dents all over it. what a very sad, sad sight right now. :(
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    I had a new Ford SVT about 6 weeks when tornados came to town and the resulting hail did a number on my new car. I took it to one of those "Dent Doctor" type places and they fixed it good as new. There is a limit to what they can do, but they were able to fix mine.

    If they say they can fix it, I would strongly advise waiting until their business has dropped off from the storms. Insurance paid for my SVT to be fixed, but I went back later with another car and had a bunch of parking lot and other dings fixed for a FRACTION of the cost of the insurance paid repair. Waiting for them to have less work and telling them the money was coming out of my pocket netted a better price. In your case, your insurance should cover it like they did mine - but due to all the claims they just wrote me a check for the repair.

  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    Have just under 10k on the clock now, automatic transmission. Recently changed the oil and made sure it is properly filled - no overfill. My wife took the box on a 450 mile highway round trip over the weekend and averaged just over 31mpg.

  • nthenthe Posts: 414
    yeah, insurance is taking car of mine, luckily i only have a $100 deductible for comp.
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    If the paintless dent folks can fix it you are better off. Down the road a re-painted car will be easy for most to spot and they will wonder if you were in a bad wreck or something. Properly done, the popped out dents can't be detected and the finish is still 100% factory.

  • nthenthe Posts: 414
    i haven't been to the shop, so i don't know what they will have to do. they may have to replace 1 panel though, cause there is 1 dent on the rear pillar that is right on a corner which looks to be impossible to pop out.

    but i do plan on keeping the car for a long time anyway, and since i made an insurance claim, it will go on carfax, but i'm keeping reciepts to show the next person down the line what was done and why.
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    but i'm keeping receipts to show the next person down the line what was done and why

    Always a wise move - keep some "before" pictures to show that it was hail dings and not a wreck.

    When I sold my M5 the buyer quizzed me about the "accident" report on the CarFax he pulled. I had the before pictures and the body shop receipt showing a minor scrape that was not a problem (someone side-swiped me - barely). It was a non-issue for the sale since they could see how small the damage was and how inexpensive it was to repair.

  • nthenthe Posts: 414
    thank you for the advice, and i was thinking about taking pictures, but now i defintely will.
  • I just filled the tank on my 05 auto XB. MPG with a bottle of Shell V Power injector cleaner added was 34.88. Temps here in the outlying areas of Wash, DC were slightly warmer last week and I believe that it was a factor in my MPG. I add the injector cleaner about once every few months. Not bad for a Box with 81000 miles on the ODO. 70/30 mix of highway and city driving at speeds up to 80. I also did the 1st brake job on the front at 80,000 miles. I was going to replace the rear also but the tech said that there was still over half of the rear pads left so I skipped it for now.
    The Box has been a great car and I'll probably give it to my 16 yr. old in about 20K or so. I'm not a huge fan on the new body stlye so I'll probably pass on the XB for my next driver unless Scion does some major changes, The XD is not too bad style-wise, but I have not driven it yet either.
  • tundradudetundradude Posts: 588
    I test drove the xD went it came out and I liked it. It doesn't have the room of our present vehicle, but nonetheless, it was very comfortable as long as you pack light. You could definitely tell the extra 15 HP (based off 05 xB with 108 HP) as well as the difference in torque. It was fun to drive. I thought the gauges were arranged nicely (meaning in one cluster like our cars).

    I really think that the xA and especially the first gen xB are going to be cult cars. Then you take gas prices into consideration and they will be more sought after.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,403
    I sold my 2006 Scion xA for a whoppin' good price with high miles, too. I am delighted that I got 36,000 miles of use for hardly any money out of pocket.


  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    Depending on where you check, my gen 1 xB has a trade in value of around $12k. I gave just under $14k for mine (auto, cruise, spoiler, mats, ipod stereo, etc) about a year and half back. I have no intention of selling or trading mine, but it is nice to know it has held value so well. I think the "classic" 1st gen will continue to do well on the used market, for sure since the 2nd gen has moved more upscale in price.

    If I could keep my foot out of the firewall I might be able to do better than 26-27mpg around town in mine :D .

  • You're dead on with the 12K pricing. I have seen the Gen 1 priced from $11.5 to $14999 in the classifieds within a 80 mile radius of DC. And those are 2004-2006 years. Resale has really been good with the spike in gas prices and I am thankful that I"m not paying $50 for a fill-up. I stopped for gas yesterday and a Tahoe was across from me filling up. He was over $100 and not full yet.

    The Toyota/Scion dealer near me is mostly selling TC's, XB's, Prius, Corolla's and Yaris from new inventory due to fuel economy. They have a lot full on Tacoma's, Tundra's, Highlanders, Sienna's RAV's and FJ's.

    I may wait awhile before I turn the Box over to my daughter. I was thinking of buying my co-worker's 2006 Honda Accord EXL V6 when the lease is up. There are only 17k miles on it and it gets turned in around October. She said that it gets 31 mpg on the higway which is 75% of my driving. If gas prices go any higher I won't be buying anything.
  • little3little3 Posts: 31
    Am considering an 08 or 09 Xb with AT. What have been your average MPG city/hwy with an 08 Xb with AT. Please no Volvo, Ford SVT, 04 Xa with manual tranny, tCs with nuclear power plants as an aftermarket modification, 98 Buick LeSabres, etc. I'm just looking for information related to REAL WORLD MPG with newer model Scion Xb. Will appreciate your info. Thanks.
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