BMW 5-Series Lease Questions

dulnev

The MF for 535i is higher: .00155. But the residual is identical to 528i.

rbr

For what its worth, I was just able to obtain a MF of .0005 on a 36 month lease of a 2009 535xi by offering a one-month security deposit.

dft654

Anyone know the BMW FS money factor for a 2010 535xi Wagon?

acurious

Hi all,

What you think about this? I got quoted a .00175 money factor on a 36-mth lease for a 2010 loaded 535i. We will prepay .15 per mile over $15K miles; prepaying for 8K miles. Isn't the money factor. 00155 though? Is dealer trying to pull a fast one?

jeffal

Dealers are known to mark up the money factor rate. That is another way they make their profit on the car. You can ask them to use BMW's current rate. They might say okay, or they might tell you to get lost. Depends on how bad they want your business.

acurious

Thanks. I appreciate the insight.

rbr

acurious -- maybe carman will chime in, but I believe the official BMW rate for a 2010 535i is .00155, so the rest is going to the dealer, and you should be able to find a dealer that will give you .00155. Knowledge is power ... stick to your guns.

Prepaying for mileage overages probably makes sense given that the per mile rate is less, but is that recoverable in the event the car is totalled? Still may be worth it though.

Good luck.

I'm picking up a 2009 535xi on Saturday, MSRP around $63,000, 36 months, 15K/year, .0005 MF, 1 month security deposit and 1st months payment up front, for about $650 including tax. Car has about 1,500 miles on it at the dealer and is still being sold as new. I think I did OK.

x021627

BMW lets you buy only the mileage you need till about 4 mos before you lease is over at only .01 more than what you would pay at inception. Therefore you aren't paying for what you don't need. I knew 15K was too much and 12k probably not enough and will gladly only pay for the overage I only use. Not a bad deal and I can keep the extra $$$ till I need to part with it.

sergeym

.0005!!! You are kidding, right?

elansp

I believe the 2009s still have MF of .0005 on them but I thought the 2010s were around .00155.

rbr

Sergey --

No ... not kidding. I was surprised too. The sales rep said that was available with a one month refundable security deposit. Obviously the best part is that translates to a tremendous amount of interest/rent savings on cars that are this expensive, not to mention that virtually every dollar you are paying goes to depreciation which should positively affect the end of lease purchase price. Remember this was on an '09 535xi, and there aren't many left.

rbr

BTW, my car is an '09, but it was a late production car so it has the improved iDrive hardware.

waid10

This forum is great. I have learned so much, but still feel a bit lost when discussing lease options with a dealer.

I just got an opening quote from a dealer for a 2010 535i with sport, premium, value, comfort access, nav, and satellite radio. MSRP is $59,570. There is a "dealer package" of $399 added but I have no idea what that is. They discounted the MSRP by $2,836. They added tax, tags, and a $479 processing fee. Is that a normal amount? The total balance is $59,491.63.

He quoted me prices for 24, 30, and 36 month leases with 12,000 miles and no down payment. He used a money factor of 0.0021.

24 month lease is a $1,187/month payment ($38,125 residual value)
30 month lease is a $1,023/month payment ($36,933 residual value)
36 month lease is a $914/month payment ($35,742 residual value)

These are my questions:

1. Any idea what that $399 dealer package is?
2. Is the $479 processing fee reasonable? Can that be negotiated?
3. Is the $2,836 reduction off of MSRP a good reduction? How much profit is typically built in? I think I have read that about $4,000 is built in. Should I push to get even more of a reduction?
4. From what I have read in this forum, the money factor they quoted me is high. Is 0.00155 the standard for the 535? Will that change in September?
5. He gave residual value dollar amounts but I am not sure what number is used to calculate it. I would like to know what the standard percentage is and see how these numbers match up. Do you use the MSRP or the total after taxes and fees to calculate the residual value?

I would appreciate any other insight?

rbr

Waid -- A "dealer package" may be some sort of minor dealer installed things or prep things ... just ask them for that and then probably say no thanks. The $475 processing fee is ridiculous unless it has something to do with a lease inception fee. For instance (and although I know I could have fought it), my dealer has a $99 processing fee. Processing fees or whatever are just added profit for the dealer. The money factor is definitely higher than the official BMW rate which I think you have stated correctly.

You should negotiate a price based on invoice which you can figure out on the Edmunds site. My most basic advice is to not sit back and just try to justify their price. Make him an offer that is maybe $1000 or less over the invoice price and make that your cap cost on the lease, and state that you want the official lease rate of .00155 (.00165 for an X-drive), and dont be shy or defensive doing it. Also, you may want to get a quote at both 15,000 and 12,000 miles. The deals on the 2010s will likely only get better as we get closer to the new design which I guess is estimated to arrive mid year 2010.

djwaj

Hey guys, I'm new to this so please bear with me. I went to lease a 2010 528i base sedan and the MSRP $46,625. 36 months,12k miles. Total out of pocket at signing $2100 and $600 a month including taxes. How good or bad is this deal? I would appreciate any tips or suggestions.

Thanks

acurious

djwaj,

not bad...do you know what the money factor is? I just leased this past Wed at BMW of Mountain View, CA a 535i with M/package for $980 a month at .00175 based on $500 over retail with all bells and whistles. Cap cost = $60,920. Probably could have gotten .00155 but it's a 2010. Had to get prepaid miles too because I drive an insane amount per year hence higher payment. I think you can negotiate the money factor as well. Good luck.

monkeyshift

That still seems a bit high, depending on where you live. You should ask what the cap cost of the car is and what the residual and rates are.

To give you an example, on paper, I'm looking to get a 2010 528i msrp $52,875. Since I'm in SoCal, I figure to get the car at 500 over invoice, (49,150) which will end up being $692 a month (including la county sales tax) with nothing but out the door costs with 10k miles/ year at a .00145 and 61% residual.

acurious

We're at 58% residual in the Bay Area I think. I had to get 23K miles per yr.

jeffal

Here are a few lease quotes I received on a 2010 528i sedan (MSRP: $55,000)

The terms were: $0 down, 10,000 miles per year, 36 months
And the taxes were included in the payment:

Dealer 1: $759/month
Dealer 2 : $767/month
Dealer 3 : $779/month

I don't feel right paying over $9,000 a year for a 528i when the competition is offering more value for your dollar. The terrible crash test results on the 5 series aren't helping things either, but for some reason I'm still drawn to the car.

mineshg

I would appreciate if someone can let me know the leasing price for the following:
BMW 528 xi (X-drive) with premium package, navigation and park distance control.
I would like to lease for 36 month for 12k miles/year. I would not like to put any money for down payment. If i go with $0 down payment what would be the best deal ie $/month? I live in jersey city, NJ. Please advice.

I got a quote from a dealer for $650/month (with $3000 down payment) for the above mentioned specification. Can anyone suggest whats the best deal I can get on it.

x021627

You need to negotiate the priceof the vehicle, not the lease payment. Do some searches and fin dout what the money factors they are offering you and learn how to do the calculation of the lease payment yourself. You need to understand the leasing calculation, if you don't already and the variables that to into it. That will help you determine if the offer they made you was a good one or not. I don't let on what I am planning to do, whether leasing or buying till the very end after we agree on pricing, since that is the driving factor no matter what you are doing.

I leased a similarly equipeed vehicle in 2008 except I also had the cold package and ipod adaptor, no park distance control. My monthly payment with tax is $649 and I put NO money down on the lease. At that time, this was a good dea.

You can do much better as we are in a recession.....................

Good Luck

mineshg

Thanks a ton!!! I guess i will have to do some more research on it....

tortez

2010 528 in CA, Premium, value, nav, heated seats. MSRP is 50875, I was able to get 48000, just about 1100 over invoice. I already know the 36/mo 10k lease has 61% residual value from reading other posts, and that the money factor should be .00145. I had 2 dealerships today tell me that is their "buy rate", and they need to mark that up to make money. They quoted me a MF of .00185

I am a current 5 series customer turning in my lease, and I was told I had to do another security deposit of 700, and pay the acquisition fee of 925 to start a new lease. If I did not security deposit, then the MF would be .00205!!! What is the big deal of the Loyalty program if I have to pay all these fees again???

I was told that I could get this car for 48k, 3000 drive off, and 659/mo including CA state tax.

Does this look good, and can anyone tell me what the Loyalty program gets me, because I don't see it.

rbr

The current 5-series doesn't have "Terrible crash trests results," no matter who the rating agency is. One or two of the tests are not perfect, but "terrible," with all due respect, certainly doesn' apply here.

As to the lease quotes you are getting, I was being quoted in that range (mb slightly higher) for a 2010 535xi with 15K/year 3yrs through BMW finance. The MF should be .00145 and RV should be 58% on a 528i with 15K/ year through 8/31.

waid10

Does anyone (Car Man perhaps) know the MF for a 2010 535i? Was it 0.00155 for August? What will it be for September? Does it change monthly?

waid10

I am negotiating a 2010 535i lease. Car has sport, premium, value, comfort access, heated seats, navigation, satellite radio. Dealer quotes a sticker of $59,570 (although I am getting $60,195 on Edmunds). He is giving me a discount of $3,336, so a total price of 56,633 plus tax, tags, fees.

He is quoting me 0.00175 MF and 60% residual on a 36 month lease with 12,000 miles.

Dealer also says I have to pay $900 security deposit that is refundable at lease end.

Thoughts?

rbr

A 2010 535i 36mo/12K appears to have a MF of .00155 for August, so you are paying .00020 more than the official rate, which calculates to a half percent more in interest rate that the dealer is pocketing. That is not insignificant as it translates (I think) to about $650 more in interest/rent charges over the life of the lease. Maybe carman can confirm the numbers. September is not out yet.

As to the deposit, I'm not as certain,a lthough I beleive BMW has a program to reduce the MF even further by paying a lease deposit. In this case, they may be using the deposit to reduce the money factor evenfurther and increase their profit.

I am getting the lease rates from a very popular BMW driver message board site called "bimmerfest.com" on the "Ask a dealer" board and the lease rates are posted by none other than Tarry Shebesta who is well known around here.

pacdecimal

One dealer in Berkeley has $399.00 with drive off of $6,300 something. When I called about the vehicle they said it was sold.

The national deal is for a premium with free value package with MSRP of $47,500 or so. The payment was $499.00. The San Francisco dealer was only going to give me .00155 with $925.00 fee.

CarMan@Edmunds

You're very welcome, joesao.

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CarMan@Edmunds

Hi dft654. BMW Financial Services' new September buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2010 535xi Wagon with 15,000 miles per year are .00165 and 58%, respectively.

You never mentioned how long you want to lease for or what mileage allowance you need. Let me know if you want something different.

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CarMan@Edmunds

Chances are that the $399 "dealer package" contains some sort of junk that you really don't need. If I was interested in this car, I personally would ask the dealer what it consists of. If it's something silly like VIN etching, see if you can get them to eliminate the charge.

The $479 processing fee is probably equivalent to the doc fee that many dealers charge. It's basically fluff. Rather than looking at all of the little fees that this dealer is trying to add onto your deal, focus on the out-the-door price of the "5" that you're interested in. If the total price that you have to pay for this car at this dealer, including all of the packages and fees, is less than or equivalent to what you would have to pay for one elsewhere it doesn't really matter how the price breaks out. If this car's total price is a little on the high side, then it might pay to shop around a little bit.

You can look up what the spread is between this car's MSRP and its dealer invoice price over in the New Vehicle Pricing section of Edmunds.com.

BMW Financial Services' September buy rate lease money factor for a 2010 535i Sedan is still .00155. BMW FS' 36 month, 12,000 mile per year residual value percentage for this car is currently 60%.

Car_man
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tortez

What does the bmw lease loyalty program provide. I've heard they can waive my disposition fee on my current lease (350) and the acquisition fee on the new car(925), and the security deposit (700).

Then I was told. From another dealership that it really isn't waived and that the fees are rolled into the lease? Who do I believe?

Also, what are the Sept rates on 2010 528 for 36/mo and 10k miles?

CarMan@Edmunds

Hi tortez. It's very strange that you were told that you have to pay a security deposit on your new lease. Traditionally BMW Financial Services waives its security deposit requirement for free for returning lessees. Unless it has made a change to this policy recently, which is unlikely, the salesperson that you spoke with has no idea what they are talking about.

As far as the acquisition fee goes, BMW FS charges a base fee of $725 on every vehicle that it leases. Dealers often attempt to mark this fee up by a couple hundred dollars to add additional hidden profit to deals. Savvy consumers who know what the base fee is can often get dealers to lower theirs to that level, or at least take the additional $200 profit into account when determining whether they are getting a good deal.

Car_man
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CarMan@Edmunds

Hi waid10. BMW does usually issue a new lease program on a monthly basis. Having said that, its money factors and residual values do not always change from month to month. BMW Financial Services' September buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 2010 535i with 15,000 miles per year are .00155 and 58%, respectively.

You never mentioned how long you want to lease for or what mileage allowance you need, so I had to make some assumptions. Let me know if you want something different.

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bmwpower2010

Hi Car_man,

Can you please provide me with details on 36months / 10K lease for 528i (September MF and Residual Value)?

Thanks a lot in advance.

bettencb

CarMan: Looking at leasing a 2010 535xi in September -- 36 month/15k per year. Can you confirm 58% and .00165 MF? Also, is there any lease cash or other additional incentive or rebate available for leases in September? Thanks for your help.

logic_3

Ok, my head is spinning as I try to figure out a deal, strategy and dealer to work with. This will be my first time leasing a vehicle, as I have always purchased in the past. Here is the vehicle info and data that I have researched so far:

535i xDrive Sedan
Base MSRP 53,400 (49,130)
Alpine White 0 (0)
Brown Dakota Leather 0 (0)
Light Poplar wood trim 0 (0)
Premium Pkg 750 (685)
Sport Pkg 1,400 (1,275)
Value Pkg 0 (0)
STEPTRONIC 0 (0)
Comfort Access keyless 1000 (910)
Heated rear seats 350 (320)
Navigation 1,900 (1,730)
Power rear sunshade 575 (525)
Split fold-down-rear 475 (430)
HD Radio 0 (0)
Destination 825 (825)
Total MSRP 60,675 (55,830)

In parentheses are the dealer invoice price for each of the options. I’m shooting to negotiate the price of the car to 2% over invoice $56,946.60. It is my understanding that currently for 36 mth for 15k miles/year, the residual is 58% and the base rate is .00165. So for this vehicle, at 2% over invoice, with no money down, I am coming up with a monthly payment of $812.84 before tax.

Here are the questions I’m hoping to have answered:
1)Can anyone that works for a dealership confirm that my invoicing pricing is correct?
2)Does my lease monthly payment calculation seem correct? Are my residual and MF correct?
3)From a dealers perspective, does 2% over dealer invoice sound outrageous? Should I be able to find a dealer willing to work with me at that price?
4)I’m in Michigan, but am willing to travel to IL, IN or OH to work with a dealer. Anyone know of a dealer in any of those states that would be willing to deal with what I have outlined?
5)I’m not sure how many miles will be driven. I pretty confident it will be between 12-15k. What makes more financial sense, leasing the car with 15k miles or going with 12k miles and paying for more miles during the term of the lease if needed? If anyone knows the price on purchasing additional miles, that would be helpful.
6)BMWFS is currently offering $589.00 for 36 months based on MSRP of $54,975.00 (incl. Premium & Value Package only)
$589 First months payment
$3,700 Down payment
$600 Security Deposit
$725 Acquisition fee
$5,614 Cash due at signing
Does anyone know all the numbers involved in this lease offer? When I try to calculate the formula they use, I am getting $638.10. Could you add options to this deal or does the vehicle have to stay as is?

Thanks in advance for everyone’s input and assistance.

drewzie

Here is the quote I received today from a NJ dealership. Is it a good deal?
2010 528I
MSRP $47,375
SELLING PRICE $44,195
TOTAL DUE AT INCEPTION WHICH INCLUDEDS TAX, TITLLE, MV FEES AND BANK FEE $2,550
RESIDUAL 58%
MONEY FATOR .00145
36 MONTHS
15,000 MILES
I AM AN EXISITNG BMW CUSTOMER
$623.00 PER MONTH

jcgp1200

I'm very new to this leasing question but I'm very interested in how you can negotiate such a good deal considering that the internet deal is $489/month for a comparably equipped 528 with $3500 down + acquisition fee + taxes and that's for a 10,000 miles per year lease allotment.
Can you tell me the secret?

jcgp1200

I'm looking at leasing a new 2010 528I. MSRP 47500. I would like to lease for 3 years for 12,000 miles. Does anyone on the site know whether i can expect to do better than the BMWFS internet offer of $489 per mo with $3500 down + taxes? Any perspective or examples would be appreciated.

drewzie

Is my offer really a better deal than the BMW national internet deal? I can not figure it out mathematically because I do not understand how to calculate the tax on the internet offer. Can anyone help us do the monetary comparison on the two deals mentioned above?

rbr

Logic 3 --

I recently acquired a '09 535xi that specs out very similar to yours down to color (mine has the grey interior/dark poplar combination). These are fabulous cars. Let me see if I can help a little.

First, it sounds like you are putting in a lot of "quality time" figuring out the numbers, and that's all time well spent. Knowledge is power.

1. Most important, as to pricing, my suggestion would be to start at no more than $500 over actual invoice in your negotiations. The figures on Edmunds are pretty accurate, but you can cross reference them against the Kelly Blue book site if you are concerned. Alternately, you can tell the salesperson that you would like to see the invoice. They should be willing to show it to you. Your ultimate objective is very reasonable, and you will not be laughed at starting at $500 over invoice. These cars are still not flying off the showfloor. If the salesperson says you are crazy at that price or they have a policy not to show the invoice, thank them for their time and tell them to let you know if their opinion changes. Patience is a virtue in this situation, and there are plenty of cars around to choose from, and you won't have to travel all over the place to get that deal. I live in Minnesota, but I got mine in Sioux Falls, South Dakota as it was one of the last '09s left.

2. As to miles/year, I have the same dilemma as you ... I drive 12-15,000 every year, but I would prefer to be conservative and get those miles up front rather than paying for them later. Bear in mind that BMW FS does appear to allow you to buy more miles after initiating your lease for about .15/mile. In fact, if you set up your internet account, it will be listed as an option ... you just tell them how many you want, and they will give you an option to buy them or include them in your lease payment (some have said that this option isn't availble as you get toward the end of the lease). Personally, I would get them upfront rather than needing to buy a lot of miles later. Lease swapping sites are full of idiots trying to unload cars where they rans the miles up. Obviously, the most scientific way to do this would be to compare the cost to buying the miles as part of the inital lease versus buying them later.

3. The BMW offer isn't that great because of the large cap cost reduction required (never a good idea), low mileage cap (10,000) and, as you mentioned, the car isn't as well equipped as the one you are looking at.

4. Two other sites that might be helpful ... one is leasecompare, which will certainly be helpful on the leasing numbers and has a geat lease calculator that can be downloaded. Also, I have seen a lot of great advice on one of the BMW enthusiasts forums - bimmerfest.com, both as to the car and, in their "ask-a-dealer" forum.

good luck and best wishes.

logic_3

Thanks for the feedback rbr. You are absolutely correct, knowledge is power and it pays off in the end.

The hunt for this new vehicle has taken a turn for the better but I am still apprehensive. As the old saying goes, "If it is too good to be true, then it probably is!". Here is the deal that I received that I am considering:

2010 535ix with Premium Pkg, Access Control and NAV
It’s a demo car with 7k miles on it
$57,875 MSRP
$50,279 Sales Price
$32,930 Residual (56.9%)
.00217 MF
3yr lease, 12k miles
$599/mth
Due at signing, $599 1st mth, $600 security dep, $925 Aq. Fee, $2,100 cap reduce, $190 State/doc fees, $47 plate/title

On the plus side, based on my research the car is $3,000 under dealer invoice at this sales price. Also the monthly payment is nice.

On the negative side is that the MF is higher from .00165 to .00217. I was told that the higher MF is due to the fact that the car is being purchased by a non-profit, so BMWFS MF for non-profits is different. They marked up the Aq. fee $200. And the residual is lowered from 60% to 56.9%.

So I would like the forums feedback. Is it true that MF’s are higher when a company or non-profit finances through BMW vs. an individual? BMWFS has already approved the app, but a personal guarantor was on the app along with the non-profit, so what does it matter? I think I’m being feed a line on that one. Since it has 7,000 miles, am I getting a reasonable price. Should it be more? Was the residual lowered to much? I would love to know the formula that is used when figuring out depreciation of a new car that has miles.

My novice observation from all my research tells me that they are trying to WOW me with a great deal by selling it under invoice by 3k, but then making it up on the back end via the higher MF, lower residual and marked up acquisition fee.

What do you guys/gals think? Should I take the deal and be happy or tell them thanks, but I need a little more? I am really trying to avoid any buyer’s remorse.

rbr

Logic 3 --

You may be right about making it up on the back end. I have never heard of a residual value being lowered due to the lessee's status, but that may have to do with the fact that the car is a loaner with 7000 miles. I have no idea how to price this car ... has the car been titled? If it is being sold as "new" and untitled, I dont know why the normal lease rates/MFs wouldn't apply, especially if the lease is being guaranteed by a credit-worthy party.

That being said, it sounds like a pretty good deal, but if that's their offer, I'd counter at least a couple thousand less on the theory that its not a new car. There's nothing wrong with countering their inital offer. Also, weren't you going for 15K/year? I'd also ask to see the service records, a Carfax report, and get the dealer on the the record as to whether there has been any damage to the car.

This is getting to be a specialized enough situation where you may want to try posting on the Bimmerfest.com forum. I suspect you'll get some good opinions there as well even if its your first post.

logic_3

I believe the residue was lowered because of the 7k miles. It's why the MF went up that has me puzzled. I too think I should be able to get the standard .00165 MF. That would shave $40 of the payment. I recall a post I read were I believe car_man made the statement that BMWFS works on a pass/fail system, not a tiered approval system. So everyone who is approved gets the same base rate, but the dealer can raise it. Just not sure if that applies to corporations or not.

As far as I know, the car has not been titled and is considered new. It was an "Executive Demo" car. But your comment made me take another look at the spec sheets I have on the car for this deal and one I looked at on the showroom floor at the dealership. I noticed that for the status on the one that was in the showroom, it reads "dealer inventory". It has an Act. Prod. Date of 7/29/09. On the sheet for this deal, its status is "retail" and has an Act. Prod. Date of 3/17/09. In the In-Service Date on the showroom car has just VH, but the demo car has VH VPC D. Anyone know what the designations mean? Now I am wondering if it is considered a used car? I would be fine with that, I just don’t want to end up paying new car prices for a used car.

I'm going to go post on bimmerfest too as you suggested. I'm supposed to go back to the dealer this Sat. and want to be fully prepared to negotiate a fair deal.

I am also now considering during multiple security deposits vs. cap cost reduction. Will BMWFS allow that? Are their negatives to multiple security deposits?

kyfdx

$0.30 per mile reduction of the residual for demo units (not counting first 500 miles).

Pass/fail system.. no tiering

Businesses/organizations may indeed have a different money factor, as BMWFS only allows a .0004 markup to the base rate.

MSDs are a good program... definitely a money saver.

rbr

Thanks. Is there any dealer program/accomodation for demo units to reduce the invoice price? It makes sense that the residual goes down, especially with this type of mileage, but does BMW help the dealer on the demos?

kyfdx

Not sure what the demo programs entail, but any car with 7000 miles should sell for less than a brand new one... Figure $1000-$2000 less...

But, the miles shouldn't matter a lot... given that you are renting the car... You only want to lease the demo, if its a better deal than a brand-new car..

tortez

2010 528
MSRP 50875, I am getting this for 48000.
36mo lease, 10k
I was quoted .00145 MF, 61% residual.
I am a returning lease customer and am getting the security dep, and the disposition fee waived. BMWFS is also waiving my last 2 payments on my current lease (888/mo).

1500 drive off (acquisition fee, first pmt, docs, taxes, 150 cap cost reduction..)
653 a month with taxes included in CA.

Sound good???

logic_3

Thanks kyfdx. After getting some info from my sales person and a few phone calls to BMWFS and persuading to answer some questions, I was able to confirm that federal tax exempt entities do get hit with a MF increase of .00035

I am going to go the MSD route. Once I heard about that, it was a no brainer.

Does anyone know how much the sales person makes off a deal? Do they get a portion of the lease if it is at the set rate? Or do they have to increase it in order to see some profit? How much does the sales person make off the aq. fee markup? If a dealer sells a car at invoice, is there still a profit in it for them, like a dealer hold back or something?