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BMW 5-Series Lease Questions

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  • Chances are that the $399 "dealer package" contains some sort of junk that you really don't need. If I was interested in this car, I personally would ask the dealer what it consists of. If it's something silly like VIN etching, see if you can get them to eliminate the charge.

    The $479 processing fee is probably equivalent to the doc fee that many dealers charge. It's basically fluff. Rather than looking at all of the little fees that this dealer is trying to add onto your deal, focus on the out-the-door price of the "5" that you're interested in. If the total price that you have to pay for this car at this dealer, including all of the packages and fees, is less than or equivalent to what you would have to pay for one elsewhere it doesn't really matter how the price breaks out. If this car's total price is a little on the high side, then it might pay to shop around a little bit.

    You can look up what the spread is between this car's MSRP and its dealer invoice price over in the New Vehicle Pricing section of Edmunds.com.

    BMW Financial Services' September buy rate lease money factor for a 2010 535i Sedan is still .00155. BMW FS' 36 month, 12,000 mile per year residual value percentage for this car is currently 60%.

    Car_man
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  • What does the bmw lease loyalty program provide. I've heard they can waive my disposition fee on my current lease (350) and the acquisition fee on the new car(925), and the security deposit (700).

    Then I was told. From another dealership that it really isn't waived and that the fees are rolled into the lease? Who do I believe?

    Also, what are the Sept rates on 2010 528 for 36/mo and 10k miles?
  • Hi tortez. It's very strange that you were told that you have to pay a security deposit on your new lease. Traditionally BMW Financial Services waives its security deposit requirement for free for returning lessees. Unless it has made a change to this policy recently, which is unlikely, the salesperson that you spoke with has no idea what they are talking about.

    As far as the acquisition fee goes, BMW FS charges a base fee of $725 on every vehicle that it leases. Dealers often attempt to mark this fee up by a couple hundred dollars to add additional hidden profit to deals. Savvy consumers who know what the base fee is can often get dealers to lower theirs to that level, or at least take the additional $200 profit into account when determining whether they are getting a good deal.

    Car_man
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    Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum
  • Hi waid10. BMW does usually issue a new lease program on a monthly basis. Having said that, its money factors and residual values do not always change from month to month. BMW Financial Services' September buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 2010 535i with 15,000 miles per year are .00155 and 58%, respectively.

    You never mentioned how long you want to lease for or what mileage allowance you need, so I had to make some assumptions. Let me know if you want something different.

    Car_man
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    Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum
  • Hi Car_man,

    Can you please provide me with details on 36months / 10K lease for 528i (September MF and Residual Value)?

    Thanks a lot in advance.
  • CarMan: Looking at leasing a 2010 535xi in September -- 36 month/15k per year. Can you confirm 58% and .00165 MF? Also, is there any lease cash or other additional incentive or rebate available for leases in September? Thanks for your help.
  • Ok, my head is spinning as I try to figure out a deal, strategy and dealer to work with. This will be my first time leasing a vehicle, as I have always purchased in the past. Here is the vehicle info and data that I have researched so far:

    535i xDrive Sedan
    Base MSRP 53,400 (49,130)
    Alpine White 0 (0)
    Brown Dakota Leather 0 (0)
    Light Poplar wood trim 0 (0)
    Premium Pkg 750 (685)
    Sport Pkg 1,400 (1,275)
    Value Pkg 0 (0)
    STEPTRONIC 0 (0)
    Comfort Access keyless 1000 (910)
    Heated rear seats 350 (320)
    Navigation 1,900 (1,730)
    Power rear sunshade 575 (525)
    Split fold-down-rear 475 (430)
    HD Radio 0 (0)
    Destination 825 (825)
    Total MSRP 60,675 (55,830)

    In parentheses are the dealer invoice price for each of the options. I’m shooting to negotiate the price of the car to 2% over invoice $56,946.60. It is my understanding that currently for 36 mth for 15k miles/year, the residual is 58% and the base rate is .00165. So for this vehicle, at 2% over invoice, with no money down, I am coming up with a monthly payment of $812.84 before tax.

    Here are the questions I’m hoping to have answered:
    1)Can anyone that works for a dealership confirm that my invoicing pricing is correct?
    2)Does my lease monthly payment calculation seem correct? Are my residual and MF correct?
    3)From a dealers perspective, does 2% over dealer invoice sound outrageous? Should I be able to find a dealer willing to work with me at that price?
    4)I’m in Michigan, but am willing to travel to IL, IN or OH to work with a dealer. Anyone know of a dealer in any of those states that would be willing to deal with what I have outlined?
    5)I’m not sure how many miles will be driven. I pretty confident it will be between 12-15k. What makes more financial sense, leasing the car with 15k miles or going with 12k miles and paying for more miles during the term of the lease if needed? If anyone knows the price on purchasing additional miles, that would be helpful.
    6)BMWFS is currently offering $589.00 for 36 months based on MSRP of $54,975.00 (incl. Premium & Value Package only)
    $589 First months payment
    $3,700 Down payment
    $600 Security Deposit
    $725 Acquisition fee
    $5,614 Cash due at signing
    Does anyone know all the numbers involved in this lease offer? When I try to calculate the formula they use, I am getting $638.10. Could you add options to this deal or does the vehicle have to stay as is?

    Thanks in advance for everyone’s input and assistance.
  • Here is the quote I received today from a NJ dealership. Is it a good deal?
    2010 528I
    MSRP $47,375
    SELLING PRICE $44,195
    TOTAL DUE AT INCEPTION WHICH INCLUDEDS TAX, TITLLE, MV FEES AND BANK FEE $2,550
    RESIDUAL 58%
    MONEY FATOR .00145
    36 MONTHS
    15,000 MILES
    I AM AN EXISITNG BMW CUSTOMER
    $623.00 PER MONTH
  • I'm very new to this leasing question but I'm very interested in how you can negotiate such a good deal considering that the internet deal is $489/month for a comparably equipped 528 with $3500 down + acquisition fee + taxes and that's for a 10,000 miles per year lease allotment.
    Can you tell me the secret?
  • I'm looking at leasing a new 2010 528I. MSRP 47500. I would like to lease for 3 years for 12,000 miles. Does anyone on the site know whether i can expect to do better than the BMWFS internet offer of $489 per mo with $3500 down + taxes? Any perspective or examples would be appreciated.
  • Is my offer really a better deal than the BMW national internet deal? I can not figure it out mathematically because I do not understand how to calculate the tax on the internet offer. Can anyone help us do the monetary comparison on the two deals mentioned above?
  • rbrrbr Posts: 106
    Logic 3 --

    I recently acquired a '09 535xi that specs out very similar to yours down to color (mine has the grey interior/dark poplar combination). These are fabulous cars. Let me see if I can help a little.

    First, it sounds like you are putting in a lot of "quality time" figuring out the numbers, and that's all time well spent. Knowledge is power.

    1. Most important, as to pricing, my suggestion would be to start at no more than $500 over actual invoice in your negotiations. The figures on Edmunds are pretty accurate, but you can cross reference them against the Kelly Blue book site if you are concerned. Alternately, you can tell the salesperson that you would like to see the invoice. They should be willing to show it to you. Your ultimate objective is very reasonable, and you will not be laughed at starting at $500 over invoice. These cars are still not flying off the showfloor. If the salesperson says you are crazy at that price or they have a policy not to show the invoice, thank them for their time and tell them to let you know if their opinion changes. Patience is a virtue in this situation, and there are plenty of cars around to choose from, and you won't have to travel all over the place to get that deal. I live in Minnesota, but I got mine in Sioux Falls, South Dakota as it was one of the last '09s left.

    2. As to miles/year, I have the same dilemma as you ... I drive 12-15,000 every year, but I would prefer to be conservative and get those miles up front rather than paying for them later. Bear in mind that BMW FS does appear to allow you to buy more miles after initiating your lease for about .15/mile. In fact, if you set up your internet account, it will be listed as an option ... you just tell them how many you want, and they will give you an option to buy them or include them in your lease payment (some have said that this option isn't availble as you get toward the end of the lease). Personally, I would get them upfront rather than needing to buy a lot of miles later. Lease swapping sites are full of idiots trying to unload cars where they rans the miles up. Obviously, the most scientific way to do this would be to compare the cost to buying the miles as part of the inital lease versus buying them later.

    3. The BMW offer isn't that great because of the large cap cost reduction required (never a good idea), low mileage cap (10,000) and, as you mentioned, the car isn't as well equipped as the one you are looking at.

    4. Two other sites that might be helpful ... one is leasecompare, which will certainly be helpful on the leasing numbers and has a geat lease calculator that can be downloaded. Also, I have seen a lot of great advice on one of the BMW enthusiasts forums - bimmerfest.com, both as to the car and, in their "ask-a-dealer" forum.

    good luck and best wishes.
  • Thanks for the feedback rbr. You are absolutely correct, knowledge is power and it pays off in the end.

    The hunt for this new vehicle has taken a turn for the better but I am still apprehensive. As the old saying goes, "If it is too good to be true, then it probably is!". Here is the deal that I received that I am considering:

    2010 535ix with Premium Pkg, Access Control and NAV
    It’s a demo car with 7k miles on it
    $57,875 MSRP
    $50,279 Sales Price
    $32,930 Residual (56.9%)
    .00217 MF
    3yr lease, 12k miles
    $599/mth
    Due at signing, $599 1st mth, $600 security dep, $925 Aq. Fee, $2,100 cap reduce, $190 State/doc fees, $47 plate/title

    On the plus side, based on my research the car is $3,000 under dealer invoice at this sales price. Also the monthly payment is nice.

    On the negative side is that the MF is higher from .00165 to .00217. I was told that the higher MF is due to the fact that the car is being purchased by a non-profit, so BMWFS MF for non-profits is different. They marked up the Aq. fee $200. And the residual is lowered from 60% to 56.9%.

    So I would like the forums feedback. Is it true that MF’s are higher when a company or non-profit finances through BMW vs. an individual? BMWFS has already approved the app, but a personal guarantor was on the app along with the non-profit, so what does it matter? I think I’m being feed a line on that one. Since it has 7,000 miles, am I getting a reasonable price. Should it be more? Was the residual lowered to much? I would love to know the formula that is used when figuring out depreciation of a new car that has miles.

    My novice observation from all my research tells me that they are trying to WOW me with a great deal by selling it under invoice by 3k, but then making it up on the back end via the higher MF, lower residual and marked up acquisition fee.

    What do you guys/gals think? Should I take the deal and be happy or tell them thanks, but I need a little more? I am really trying to avoid any buyer’s remorse.
  • rbrrbr Posts: 106
    Logic 3 --

    You may be right about making it up on the back end. I have never heard of a residual value being lowered due to the lessee's status, but that may have to do with the fact that the car is a loaner with 7000 miles. I have no idea how to price this car ... has the car been titled? If it is being sold as "new" and untitled, I dont know why the normal lease rates/MFs wouldn't apply, especially if the lease is being guaranteed by a credit-worthy party.

    That being said, it sounds like a pretty good deal, but if that's their offer, I'd counter at least a couple thousand less on the theory that its not a new car. There's nothing wrong with countering their inital offer. Also, weren't you going for 15K/year? I'd also ask to see the service records, a Carfax report, and get the dealer on the the record as to whether there has been any damage to the car.

    This is getting to be a specialized enough situation where you may want to try posting on the Bimmerfest.com forum. I suspect you'll get some good opinions there as well even if its your first post.
  • I believe the residue was lowered because of the 7k miles. It's why the MF went up that has me puzzled. I too think I should be able to get the standard .00165 MF. That would shave $40 of the payment. I recall a post I read were I believe car_man made the statement that BMWFS works on a pass/fail system, not a tiered approval system. So everyone who is approved gets the same base rate, but the dealer can raise it. Just not sure if that applies to corporations or not.

    As far as I know, the car has not been titled and is considered new. It was an "Executive Demo" car. But your comment made me take another look at the spec sheets I have on the car for this deal and one I looked at on the showroom floor at the dealership. I noticed that for the status on the one that was in the showroom, it reads "dealer inventory". It has an Act. Prod. Date of 7/29/09. On the sheet for this deal, its status is "retail" and has an Act. Prod. Date of 3/17/09. In the In-Service Date on the showroom car has just VH, but the demo car has VH VPC D. Anyone know what the designations mean? Now I am wondering if it is considered a used car? I would be fine with that, I just don’t want to end up paying new car prices for a used car.

    I'm going to go post on bimmerfest too as you suggested. I'm supposed to go back to the dealer this Sat. and want to be fully prepared to negotiate a fair deal.

    I am also now considering during multiple security deposits vs. cap cost reduction. Will BMWFS allow that? Are their negatives to multiple security deposits?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 31,211
    $0.30 per mile reduction of the residual for demo units (not counting first 500 miles).

    Pass/fail system.. no tiering

    Businesses/organizations may indeed have a different money factor, as BMWFS only allows a .0004 markup to the base rate.

    MSDs are a good program... definitely a money saver.

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • rbrrbr Posts: 106
    Thanks. Is there any dealer program/accomodation for demo units to reduce the invoice price? It makes sense that the residual goes down, especially with this type of mileage, but does BMW help the dealer on the demos?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 31,211
    Not sure what the demo programs entail, but any car with 7000 miles should sell for less than a brand new one... Figure $1000-$2000 less...

    But, the miles shouldn't matter a lot... given that you are renting the car... You only want to lease the demo, if its a better deal than a brand-new car..

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • 2010 528
    MSRP 50875, I am getting this for 48000.
    36mo lease, 10k
    I was quoted .00145 MF, 61% residual.
    I am a returning lease customer and am getting the security dep, and the disposition fee waived. BMWFS is also waiving my last 2 payments on my current lease (888/mo).

    1500 drive off (acquisition fee, first pmt, docs, taxes, 150 cap cost reduction..)
    653 a month with taxes included in CA.

    Sound good???
  • Thanks kyfdx. After getting some info from my sales person and a few phone calls to BMWFS and persuading to answer some questions, I was able to confirm that federal tax exempt entities do get hit with a MF increase of .00035

    I am going to go the MSD route. Once I heard about that, it was a no brainer.

    Does anyone know how much the sales person makes off a deal? Do they get a portion of the lease if it is at the set rate? Or do they have to increase it in order to see some profit? How much does the sales person make off the aq. fee markup? If a dealer sells a car at invoice, is there still a profit in it for them, like a dealer hold back or something?
  • tortez: I'll take a shot at giving you some advice, I've been hammering out these numbers over the last 2 weeks on my own deal and have learned quite a lot from a couple of forums.

    First I need either the invoice price of the car or give me the specs and I can tell you what the invoice price is. Based on that we can see how much over invoice you are paying. That will give you an idea if you are getting a "good deal". Most recommend not paying more than $500 over invoice from what I have seen.

    Since your in CA, I am assuming you are looking at a 528i. The MF and residual you were quoted are correct.

    Line item your drive offs for me. When I try to back out the #'s something seems off. How much was your acquisition fee? What’s the tax rate in CA?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 31,211
    Generally, a sales person gets paid off a percentage of the gross profit on the selling price, only... For 90% of the deals on a new car, they probably get the minimum payout ($150, or so on a BMW).

    The finance department is usually credited with any other profit on the deal.. BMWFS pays the dealer 70% of any extra money made on money factor or acquisition fee bumps over the base rate..

    BMW dealers can usually see about 5% of invoice, after the sale, in CSI bonuses, etc... The sales/finance people don't see any of that money.. That said, very few BMW dealers will do a deal at invoice.. unless it is a hard to move car at the end of the year...

    Sales/finance managers generally have an average margin and a sales goal that they need to hit, to generate a certain profitability for the dealership.. There may be some variation in deals... but, they want that number.. and that's what they are working towards.. I like to know what the numbers are... but, I tend to not worry about who is making what, other than knowing their motivation... What comes out of my pocket is the number that matters to me... I find it rather rude to bring up compensation matters during a negotiation... by either the buyer or seller..

    regards,
    kyfdx

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • I've been following these posts pretty closely and i am learning something new with each post. Thanks for the information. Does anyone have experience or an opinion about the bmw select program? short story is that it is a mix of a lease program and purchase option. the rate is 2.9% interest on 2010 model with unlimited miles for 60 months with no money down, with a ballon payment at the end of the term. at the end of the term, you have the option of rolling it into a short term loan (at the same interest rate) or trading your vehicle in for another vehicle (at the same interest rate).

    thoughts? i don't see it in any of the posts and i'm trying to understand the pros/cons
  • Karen_CMKaren_CM Posts: 5,032
    A reporter is looking to interview a consumer who passed on purchasing a Cadillac because there was no attractive lease option. Please send your daytime phone number to ctalati@edmunds.com by Wednesday, September 16, 2009.

    Community Manager If you have any questions or concerns about the Forums, send me an email, karen@edmunds.com, or click on my screen name to send a personal message.

  • Thanks for the response kyfdx. I agree as well. I didn't want to know what the dealer makes. My current sales person started with the "What do you think I should make on this deal?" question when I talked about lowering the MF. Telling that he personally is only making $280 on the deal. And $80 of that comes from the upped MF. So like everything else, I started my fact checking on this.

    So applying what you are saying to my deal, which is:

    2010 535ix with Premium Pkg, Access Control and NAV
    It’s a demo car with 7k miles on it
    $57,875 MSRP
    $50,279 Sales Price
    $32,930 Residual (56.9%)
    .00217 MF
    3yr lease, 12k miles
    $599/mth
    Due at signing, $599 1st mth, $600 security dep, $925 Acq. Fee, $2,400 MSD, $190 State/doc fees, $47 plate/title

    Yes, the sales person gets the marked up acg. fee, but that is all they get? The sales person does not get a cut of the MF above BMWFS set rate? In my case, BMWFS requires a .00035 on top of the 00165 because it is being purchased by a tax exempt entity. And there is no money being made off the sales price of the car because it is priced below dealer invoice?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 31,211
    The cost structure of the demo is the unknown variable in the equation.. I don't know the demo plan for BMW. I'm sure that the dealer credits some amount for the miles on the demo, but how much they get from BMW, I'm not sure.. (don't get me started on ... "How much do you think I should make?" )

    But, the only thing you really need to know.. is if this deal is cheaper than what you can negotiate on a new (non-demo) car? It is a 3-year lease... so... .cheaper is cheaper.. As long as you have warranty and maintenance for the full term, then the 7K miles mean nothing to you..

    I have to say... for a $58K MSRP car... $630/mo. is a great deal (amortized the acq.fee), even if you did have to do 4 MSDs to get it.. Does that include tax, as well?

    You can get lost in the money factors and acquisition fees, after awhile... Sometimes, you need to look at the real world finances. How much am I paying to rent this car, per month? This looks cheap to me...

    regards,
    kyfdx

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • Might be moving to Belgium for a 2 - 3 year stint. Any ideas on the leasing costs for a '09 528xi over there at 12k miles/yr ?

    J
  • Any help on this one? Particularly interested in whether there is additional Lease Cash/Dealer rebate. Thanks.
  • Community . . . i sent a post a couple of days ago asking about the BMW select program and no responses yet.

    any thoughts?
  • Hi All,

    Below is the offer I got from a Dealer in New Jersey. I am a returning customer

    MSRP 49275
    Sale Price 45500
    MF - 0.00145
    Residual - 58%
    15000 miles a year
    Due at signing - 2087
    Monthly 627

    Please let me know is this is a good deal or not.

    thanks
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