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2013 and earlier BMW X5 Lease Questions

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Comments

  • rezf,

    I am starting not to trust this entire process, including information obtained here. This is not my first lease, not even my first X5 lease. This will be my 3rd. When the X5 was first introduced it was a hot selling car as well. Everywhere I went salespeople where say 800.00+ for an X5 3.0 series with 12/36 lease package. After rigorous negotiation I got the same car for 650.00 including taxes. That was in 2002 I believe. In 2005 it was the same scenario -- I got the car for 630.00 including taxes. Now it is 2008 I have been quoted prices as high as 900.00. I recently was quoted a price of 702.30 down from the 799.00 including taxes. Each car was approximately $52K

    As I am sure you know. when you lease a car you get the money factor, the final sales price and the residuals. You can easily compare that vehicle with the one i wish to lease now. It is all pretty much the same. The money factor, the residual, in fact the 2008 X5 cost a little less.

    I cannot find a reason for this car to cost over $150.00 more. I know sales people will attempt to get as much as they can. But the consumer should be able to what is an acceptable lease agreement. You say it is all about the numbers, but in this case and I suspect many others the number don't add up. Just like I can't even create either one of my lease agreement on the basic lease calculator. Even using all the numbers on my old leases(which I still have).

    It should be easy to say at X5 3.0 50K 12/36 lease should be X
    52K 12/36 lease should be X
    54K
    55 etc.
    X5 4.4

    These are the standard lease agreements. at least consumers would have a ball park in which to negotiate.

    Anyway, I hired a consultant. I don't have the time to do the negotiations again and I shouldn't have to do this with a salesperson and dealer that I already had an acceptable deal with. It will cost me $500.00 but in the long run I will save over the course of the lease.

    This whole thing makes me wanna buy a saturn.

    ajastorm2002@aol.com
  • rezfrezf Posts: 29
    It isn't as simple as you make it out to be. You SHOULD be able to reproduce the numbers you are being quoted using a lease calculator. Something is wrong or missing if you cannot. I have never negotiated an agreement that I was not able to reproduce from what the dealership is quoting.
    Please don't take this the wrong way, but I suspect you do not have an in depth understanding of how a lease works.....most people don't and that is how/why dealershiips screw people over.
    If you want the numbers verified, just provide them on this site and I would be happy to run it for you. To do so, I need the following:
    1) MSRP of the car
    2) negotiated selling price of the car
    3) the upfront fees-ITEMIZED, including, but not limited to, acquisition fee, doc fee, MACO, title fees, any taxes, security payment (if required) etc.
    4) the money factor used
    5) the residual percentage used (comes from the term of the lease. Meaning 36 month lease at 12k miles yeear has a different residual than 10k miles)
    6) the tax rate for your state and WHETHER THE TAX IS CALCULATED ON THE PORTION OF THE CAR YOU LEASE OR ON THE ENTIRE SELLING PRICE.

    Food for thought, the consultant makes $500 if he closes the deal for you; therefore, does he have your best interests in mind?? ONLY you can look out for yourself
  • Actually, based upon what you have referenced to me it should be just that simple. As you explained it should all me a matter of calculable numbers. I never said I had an in depth knowledge of car leasing, if I had I wouldn't be asking for help on this web site. But i do have a knowledge of numbers and common sense. Don't take this the wrong way, however it should be very easy for anyone as knowledgeable as you say you are to give ball park estimates on given car leases because it is all a matter of numbers. It should be easy to tell consumers what a fair lease price should be - not exactly - but ball park. Anyway here are my numbers, tell how they go from 799.00 to 702.00

    2005

    Sticker Pr. GCC 51,370.00
    sale pr.ACC 50,035.10
    agreed val vehicle 48957.75
    inceptions 630.00 1st mo.
    250.00 title, reg
    625.00 Aquistion fee
    105.50 NJ tire&REC/Doc Fee
    total incept 1611.00
    mo. factor .0029
    residual val 31002.00

    2008

    Sticker Pr.GCC 51,660.00
    sale pr.ACC 50,011.03
    agrd val veh. 49,002.75
    inceptions 799.00 1st mo
    375.36 Cap cost reduction.
    825.64 motor vehical, lease term, doc fee, lux taxtitle, reg
    total incept 2000.00
    mo. factor .0029
    residual val 31047 20

    NJ tax rate and I believe the tax in on the selling price of the car.

    This is what has been given to me.

    In my past two leases I negotiated them myself. I just don't have the time to go through the process that i went through the first two times. I din't crunch numbers as much as I talked to salespeople at dealerships - with knowledge of what other people paid. Not saying it is the right way- but a way and a way that has worked. The consultant only gets paid if he get a lease price at or under what we agreed would be a fair price. As he looks out for himself, he has no choice but to look out fo me.

    All i am saying is if people had a ball park on what a fair lease price would be a lot of the number crunching might not be necessary. If you buy totally into the numbers process, then you have to talk only number where the average consumer is at a drastic disadvantage. All I am asking here is to give me what would be a fair lease price for a 51K ish X 5 BMW shouldn't be this hard.

    I hope I am not comming across as insulting just frustrated , not at you nor the site - just the process.

    ajastorm2002@aol.com
  • Thank you for any quick response you might give to these numbers. There was a typo concerning the moneyfactor in the 2005/2008 BMW X5's. It is 0021 on 0029. the 0029 was the money factor on the Cayenne that I am also negotiation.

    2005

    Sticker Pr. GCC 51,370.00
    sale pr.ACC 50,035.10
    agrd val vehicle 48957.75
    inceptions 630.00 1st mo.
    250.00 title, reg
    625.00 Aquistion fee
    105.50 NJ tire&REC/Doc Fee
    total incept: 1611.00
    mo. factor .0021
    residual val 31002.00

    2008

    Sticker Pr.GCC 51,660.00
    sale pr.ACC 50,011.03
    agrd val veh. 49,002.75
    inceptions 799.00 1st mo
    375.36 Cap cost reduction.
    825.64 motor vehical, lease term, doc fee, lux taxtitle, reg
    total incept 2000.00
    mo. factor .0021

    residual val 31047. 20

    NJ tax rate and I believe the tax in on the selling price of the car.
    This is what has been given to me.
    .

    ajastorm2002aol.com
  • fishjillfishjill Posts: 4
    Sorry to re-post but we're trying to get something done this weekend. The 2008 X5 we want has a msrp of $49, 575. The dealer has come off $2,164 to make the price $47,411. We have a trade in that will net us $3500 to apply to the $47,411. In addition to the trade-in cash, the remaining up-front monies are $3097 (which consist of TTL $1,660, first month's lease payment of $628, and an apparent $809 security deposit). Our monthly payment will be $628 for 36 months/15k a year. We have previously owned a BMW so we are wondering why the large security deposit. Is the monthly payment in line? Do you think the deal price is on target or is there still some room to negotiate? Is invoice on this $45645? Thanks so much!
  • rezfrezf Posts: 29
    fishjill,
    based on the numbers you have quoted, the lease payment should be $602. I believe they are fully marking up the money factor from 0.0025 to 0.0029. Have them recalculate the money factor using the buy rate and lease should come out to $602 per month. security fee should also be waived if you have previously leased or financed through BMW Financial Services. If your previous BMW was bought outright or financed/leased through a third party bank, then security fee applies
    Good luck
  • rezfrezf Posts: 29
    nj_bmw_buyer

    Have a look at this link

    http://forums.roadfly.com/forums/financing/6451130-1.html

    This is an archived list of BMWFS lease rates for April 2005. As you can see, the money factor for the X5 back then was 0.00125. In today's market, the buy rate money factor for the X5 is 0.0025. This reflects what I had previously said in a thread that manufacturers subside the interest and residuals to sweeten a lease deal to keep moving cars. The difference in money factor between 0.00125 and 0.0025 is why the same car today costs XX more.
    In 2005, your dealership raised the money factor from 0.00125 to whatever number to make your $630 a month (it was not 0.0021 as you had thought). That is why you were/are not able to calculate the numbers properly. Keeping things as simple as possible is the best way to weed your way through all the fees and get an honest number.
    Good luck with everything
  • Thank you. I re calculated the numbers my self on my financial calculator and they came out correctly - just as you said. A change in the money factor can make all the difference. if you (ACC - Residual val)/36 the payments for a 50ish vehicle averages about 550.00. Once you add the money factor that price can easily boost to over 700+.

    I did this with several vehicles: BMW, Porsche Cayenne, Range Rover. The money factor adds about 200.00+ dollars per month to the lease price of the vehicle. I have since gotten the price of the $53,155.00 BMW X5 down to 722.65 including taxes, down from the 799.00 excluding taxes.

    Just shows they were trying to beat me from the beginning. I even had one salesperson hang up on me insisting that if I am trying to purchase a BMW I shouldn't quibble over $20.00 - 30.00.

    rezf, thank you for your help and I hope I wasn't too obnoxious. When you are right I have no problem with admitting it. And you were ABSOLUTELY right.

    I still believe that consumers would benefit from knowing what the ballpark fair price for a decently equipped vehicle, so they might know where to start. So with that in mine I will share my experience thus far.

    The dealer i leased my present 2005 BMW X5 offered me a lease of 799.00 excluding taxes for the following car. X5 3.0, 36/12, Sales Price $51,660.00 with options: Tech pkg, coldweather pkg, rear climate pkg, xenon lights, premium pkgs,heated rear seats, ipod adapter..

    I have since been offered for 722.00 including taxes for the same car at another dealership. So if anyone pays more than that, for a similarly equipped car, they might wanna ask another dealer. I will still try to get this car cheaper. If I do I will let you know, so that others will know the ball park of a NJ X5 with similar options.

    Also for those that want, between this current deal and the 799.00. I got offers of 772. 00 including taxes, 750.00 including taxes, before the 722.00. I would be happy to tell you the dealerships of my rejected offers when i finish - I may have to go back to them.

    rezf thank again -- oh yeah is the $722.00 including taxes a good deal?
  • rezfrezf Posts: 29
    nj_bmw

    What I was/am saying is the best way to figure out the best deal is look at the MSRP of the car. Find the invoice price on Edmunds.com, then add $1000-$1500 to the price of the invoice. This should be your Cap Cost. Do not put any money down...only pay the upfront fees...And insist that they use a Money Factor of 0.0025 to calculate the lease. Whatever that monthly payment comes out would be the best deal
  • rezfrezf Posts: 29
    At $1000 above invoice, the lease payments on the 2008 X5 you are considering would be $693 per month before taxes. I say $1000 per month, because that is a deal that can be had any day of the month at the dealership I purchased my X5 from. The market is just too soft for some dealers to justify not discounting that much
  • Thank you again. I am finding that is an easy and practical why to assess the price of a lease. Now the problem is getting a salesperson to agree with you. Also could you give me the residual percentage on the 2008 X5 3.01.

    I might go with the 722.00 per month including taxes. That is closer to what you said a fair price would be. Also I was going to roll the taxes into the monthly lease payment, but the money factor would be on that amount so I am paying them up front.

    Thanks again
    I will let you know how i made out
  • mannydommannydom Posts: 29
    rezf...Thank you from me too. I've been following this thread closely for fear that I 'd be taken to the cleaners, too. Msg# 682 assured me that my thinking process in leasing is going the right way...i.e. negotiate first as close as you can from invoice price and once price has been agreed on only then talk about leasing issues.

    Again regarding Msg# 682, what is included in upfront fees? Also you mentioned in Msg# 652 that the March money factor is/was 0.0021. What happened? Why is it now 0.0025? Will this be different for April? What about residual% for April?

    Sorry for the questions, everyone. Thanks in advance. Good luck to all of us as we try to get the best deals.
  • rezfrezf Posts: 29
    manydom
    That was my type mistake re money factor. For march it is 0.0021 not 0.0025. The rate for Feb was 0.0025 .
    Residuals do not typically change from BMWFS (they are already inflated to make leases more attractive). The factors that likely change from month to month are the money factor and any incentives/cashbacks towards a new vehicle. Note, this is model specific and only given if they want to move a particular line more rapidly to deplete excess inventory. The other thing that changes from month to month is what's called "owner loyalty program." For this, they allow existing BMWFS customers (ones that have financed/leased) or ones whose contracts had ended in the past 6 months a special incentive towards a new lease (which is some cash back and a lower money factor)
    As for April, I do not think the money factor fluctuates with the Fed rate as seemlesly as some think they do. If BMW wants to lease more cars, they will lower the rate, plain and simple. Spring is a VERY active and busy season for dealerships so I don't think so. However, if you want a bargain, you can count on August, as BMW wants to clear left-over 2008s before introducing the model year 2009 in September-October
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Posts: 38,515
    Hi nj_bmw_byer. Manufacturers' lease programs vary significant from year to year, and even from month to month. BMW's current lease program for the X5 may not be as attractive as the one that was available when you leased yours several years ago. Or perhaps you are not being given as large a discount on your truck this time. The best way to make sure that you are getting the best possible deal on the new vehicle that you want to lease is to negotiate as low a selling price as possible on it. The selling prices of leased vehicles are negotiable, just as if you were paying cash for or financing them. The lower your X5's selling price is, the lower your monthly payment will be. As your salesperson how much they are charging you for your truck and make sure that you are being given enough of a discount.

    Car_man
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    Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Posts: 38,515
    Hey topgun26. You never mentioned the selling price of the X5 that you are interested in leasing. This is an important number for you as a consumer to know for two reasons. First, the selling prices of leased vehicles can be negotiated, just as if you were paying cash for them. Without knowing the price of the truck that you want to lease you don't know how good a price you are getting it for. The second reason is that one needs the selling price of the vehicle that they want to lease is that it is necessary to calculate its lease payment.

    Let's work up a sample lease payment on this truck and see what we come up with. For now I will assume a $3,000 discount. According to my calculations, if you were to lease a 2008 BMW X5 3.0 that has an MSRP of $61,075 and a selling price of $58,075 through BMW Financial Services right now for 36 months with 12,000 miles per year, your zero down, pre-tax monthly payment would be around $795. That's pretty close to the payment that you were quoted. This tells me that this is a pretty good deal.

    Car_man
    Host
    Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Posts: 38,515
    Greetings fishjill. I see that you are considering trading in your current vehicle when you lease your new one. There's nothing wrong with doing this, but you would be better off having the dealer cut you a check for any equity that you have in your trade rather than using the proceeds from it as a down payment for your lease. I always advise consumers not to make down payments on leased vehicles. Those who make them risk losing part or all of them if their vehicle is totaled in an accident or stolen and never recovered.

    Even if you have leased a BMW in the past, if you are not a current BMW Financial Services' lessee you are not eligible for any owner loyalty specials and you would have to pay a security deposit on your new lease.

    The best way to get a good deal on a leased vehicle is to negotiate as low a selling price as possible on the exact model that you want and then have the dealer calculate your monthly payment using its buy rate lease money factor. The selling price that you were quoted on the X5 that you are considering leasing isn't bad. It is tough to say exactly, but you are probably at around $1,500 over dealer invoice or so. If you are in an area that has a decent level of competition, you may want to consider comparison shopping with a couple of other dealers just to make sure that you are getting the best possible deal. Once you have found a selling price that you are happy with, have the dealer calculate your truck's monthly payment using BMW Financial Services' buy rate lease money factor of .00210.

    Car_man
    Host
    Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum
  • beopersonbeoperson Posts: 54
    Anyone can confirm that April numbers have not changed?
  • topgun26topgun26 Posts: 16
    Curious what anyone thinks of these numbers:
    2008 X5 3.0- msrp 62,070, invoice 57,015, offer of 58,500
    2008 X5 4.8- msrp 69,670, invioce 63,195, offer 66,700
    -this is to purchase the car, what do you guys think? thanx!
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Posts: 38,515
    Hi beoperson. BMW's March lease program was scheduled to run through April 30th, so its numbers for the X5 should be the same. However, I plan on making a few calls today to confirm that this actually the case.

    Car_man
    Host
    Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Posts: 38,515
    Hey topgun26. Obviously the 3.0 price is better than the 4.8 price. I guess that there is a much bigger supply of the 3.0. That's the only explanation for the large difference in the amount over invoice that you are being asked to pay. I am not intimately familiar with what the market is like for the X5 right now, but there's enough room here that if you are in an area that has a decent level of competition it wouldn't hurt to try comparison shopping a little bit. Make sure to stop by the "BMW X5 Prices Paid and Buying Experience" discussion for additional feedback.

    Car_man
    Host
    Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum
  • rezfrezf Posts: 29
    April lease numbers are the same as March
  • mets86mets86 Posts: 12
    I'm new to the discussion board and had a few questions regarding a new lease quote for a 2008 X5 3.0 that I received from dealer (I'll be turning in my 2005 X5 in May).

    MSRP (including all options) = $58,125
    Residual value 61%
    Lease end vlaue = $35,456.25
    Term = 36 mos
    Money Factor = .0021
    Sales Tax = $2,586.68
    Initial Cap Cost = $56,250
    Adjusted Cap Cost $58,784.34
    Amount due at sigining = $1,590.75
    10k mi/year
    Monthly payment = $845.91

    Is this a good lease deal? I'm in the NYC Metro area. How do I determine what the actual sale price of the car is? Also, how much over invoice should I be negotiatiing for?? Any help would greatly appreciated !!
  • I'm in NYC metro area too, and I've got the same question about how much over invoice I should expect. They should tell you the selling price, which I believe should be the cap cost you said was $56,250, but what's the "adjusted cap cost"?

    I just priced an X5 - the first price I got was $2,000 off list, which is about $2,300 over invoice. I hope I can do better than this.

    BTW, I got the same 61% residual, .0021 MF, 36 mo, 10K/year.
  • mets86mets86 Posts: 12
    Adjusted cap cost is $58,784.34
  • beopersonbeoperson Posts: 54
    I had an offer in DIFEO BMW
    MSRP 55.925
    Sale Price 51, 725
    But this was on March 31
  • I'm considering this against a Q7, and just got a quote. The MF on the Audi is super low - .00006, but the residual sucks - 53%. And my first quote was about $1900 off sticker of $54000, which I didn't think was so great. Price, with tax, comes in at $723/month, with about $1500 out of pocket including the first month.

    The X5 as described above, comes in at around $750/month.

    I'd like to know what I can realistically pay over invoice or below sticker (for either car).
  • rezfrezf Posts: 29
    mets86

    Your numbers add up fine, but I don't think it is much of a deal. If you were to get the negotiating price to $1000 above invoice which would be $54475 (which is a no brainer in this market) then you can expect the same lease payment to drop to $792 a month
  • rezfrezf Posts: 29
    residual value has a more profound effect on your lease payment than the money factor. Audi was in the business of hyper-inflating their residuals a few years back in order to make leases more attractive and ultimately improve sales. Those leases have started to mature in the past two years and Audi Financial is hurting as a result. They have stopped that practice now (some say the current residuals set by Audi are set below the market price so when these newer leases mature and customers turn them in, Audi Financial can recover some of the earlier losses) That is why dollar for dollar Audis are not leasing as well as they did 4-5 years ago. The only thing they can do now is provide a very low money factor, which helps...just not that much
  • Thanks, Rezf, I understand all that - I'm currently on my third Audi leases, and they've all been great deals, and I knew it couldn't continue. But my question is, what's a realistic amount over invoice that I can expect to be the cap cost? I thought I'd do better in this market, but I actually really prefer to get the car from my local dealer (not that they've been all that great to deal with and the service is less than perfect, but they're more convenient, and I'd like the option of a loaner car when servicing).
  • mets86mets86 Posts: 12
    Thank you for the response rezf. It looks like I have some room to negotiate a better price. I'll give it a try. Thanks.
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