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2013 and earlier BMW X5 Lease Questions

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Comments

  • Actually, I wanted to keep my options open if a new model comes out by 3 years and keeping the cost of lease low.
  • The option to buy a new model doesn't have anything to do with maintenance issues after 3 years, which was your original statement.

    If you want to know if a new X5 model will come out, just track the current generation's production cycle. BMW production cycles run 7 years (except for the new 3 series that goes on sale in the U.S. next spring. That production cycle could be much longer than 7 years).

    This current second generation X5 was released as a 2007 model in late 2006. That means that the third generation probably will be released as a 2014 model two years from now. So there WILL be a new model before the end of your 36 month lease if you lease now.
  • ab10000ab10000 Posts: 127
    I would try for invoice because there is a hold back and marketing fee on the car
  • abmwfanabmwfan Posts: 47
    edited December 2011
    ab10000, how many BMWs have you purchased for Invoice minus all incentives? There's nothing wrong with trying, but you're not likely to get it for that price. This is a new 2012 BMW being sold in 2011, not a left-over Kia or Chevy. Even buying clubs (like Costco, USAA, etc.) don't get you a new, current model BMW for invoice minus incentives unless the dealer gets their profit in another part of the deal (like your trade-in, jacked-up lease rates, etc.) When I checked last month, the Costco buying club price was $1,250 over invoice. Unless you get lucky or can get employee pricing, the only time you typically can buy a BMW for invoice or below (minus all incentives) is if the car is left over from a previous model year. It's not good advice to set unrealistic expectations.
  • lvitlvit Posts: 1
    Car_man,

    Do you know, if MF reductions (.0030 and an additional .0075) will be still in effect after 01/03/2012 (self-destruction date :) )? The problem is that I had to go with a new factory order, since there were no vehicles in stock that match my criteria. All the dealers I talked to would honor .0030 MF reduction, but refused to lock and apply an additional .0075 MF reduction. I'm current customer of BMW FS, and my lease is up in end of January of 2012. Thank you.
  • ab10000ab10000 Posts: 127
    edited December 2011
    Abmwfan,
    First of all the 2012 is marketing ploy, Mercedes Benz play the same game, they call their 2011 production 2012, so it is not model year, you have to go the actual production date to figure how old the car.

    Second , all these clubs pricing like Costco, amex etc. are for pepople who do not know how novitiate and you can can do lot better if you negotiate yourself.
    Costco have to make money too and that is coming off your price.
    I have tried all these clubs and every time I get a better price doing the negotiating myself.
    Personally I will pay invoice because there is a hold back and marketing fee backed in the price. In these economic condition I think it is fair.
  • gt97gt97 Posts: 5
    Is this a good deal? I think we are pretty close to coming to terms on this car. Let me know what you think:

    $60,175 MSRP incl Dest Fee
    $55,395 Invoice incl Dest Fee
    $55,274 Final Price including Doc Fee (but not incl taxes)
    The final price was figured after including $1000 rebate and $1730 nav credit. I do not qualify for loyalty as we have an Audi currently.

    Dealer is offering 3.9% financing for 60 months or a 36-month lease with 12k miles with money factor of .00215 and 56% residual. Lease also adds on $925 acquisition fee.

    Thanks for your feedback!
  • I'm new to this forum, but have found some very interesting information. How about a new approach. I am considering a lease on a new 2012 X5 sport with the following info. What would you consider a fair lease payment?

    MSRP $62,875
    36 mo lease, 12,000 miles per year
    Has navigation package
    First time BMW owner, so no credit there
    This purchase is in the Kansas / Oklahoma region
    I would qualify for BMW's best rate

    Kind of a novice here, and it looks like getting the very best deal could be kind of tricky. I just did not want to make a real mistake. Thanks for any opinions.
  • abmwfanabmwfan Posts: 47
    edited December 2011
    That's not really enough information to calculate a lease payment. Generally, with minimal money down, a ball park 36 month lease payment for a new X5 in the range of $800 / month is not unusual depending on options, model, etc. Highly optioned models will be higher. Subtract about $30 per month per extra thousand dollars down payment.

    Never start negotiation with your dealer based on a target monthly payment. There are too many ways for them to rig the deal to their benefit and not yours.

    The advice in earlier posts still applies. First, start with the dealer invoice price. Add up to $1,000 dealer profit or less if your dealer will allow it. (Some people try to buy a BMW for dealer invoice minus incentives because there is a hold back of around 3% below invoice for dealer profit. That works if you're buying a honda. You can use that as your starting point for negotiation, but it may or may not work on a BMW unless it's a left-over vehicle. If the dealer does offer the vehicle at dealer invoice, make sure they didn't arrive at that price by including cash-back incentives.)

    Then subtract all current incentives ($1,000 end of year incentive on the X5, Owner Loyalty, etc.)

    Then add tax, tags, etc.

    Then review the lease rate and ask your dealer how much they marked up the lease rate. They will often pad their profit by marking up the lease rate by around 50 basis points on top of what BMW finance charges. Ask them to cut the mark up in half. (Multiply the "money factor" by 2400 to calculate the equivalent interest rate.) A mark up of 50 basis points can increase your interest rate by more than a full percentage point.

    The residual value is fixed by BMW Finance and not negotiable. The residual value decreases by 1% with each increase in annual mileage (10k, 12k, 15k). It also varies between X5 models. Through December 31st, the residual value for a diesel X5 is lower than for the 3.5i and 5.0i. That means that the lower residual more than offsets the extra incentive on the diesel. Ask the dealer to show you the current residual value sheet provided by BMW. Every 1% increase in residual can reduce your lease payment by around $15 - 20 / month depending on purchase price.

    If your dealer is not willing to answer these questions or will not show you the dealer invoice, then you might want to find another dealer.

    You can use these metrics to assess whether your dealer is giving you a fair deal. But, they're not charities and they don't sell at cost.

    I always recommend not letting anxiety over fine tuning the purchase price by a few dollars ruin the excitement of buying or leasing a new BMW. If you're happy with the car and the deal, that's all that matters. Don't worry about whether someone somewhere else might have found a similar car for a hundred bucks less.
  • abmwfanabmwfan Posts: 47
    edited December 2011
    ab10000, you are wrong about model years being "just marketing". The model year directly affects residual value. A 2012 has greater market value and residual value than a 2011 sold in Dec 2011 or Jan 2012. A dealer generally is more motivated to unload a left-over 2011 that's been sitting on the lot than he is for a 2012 that just arrived.

    There are other reasons why you are wrong: some model years involve substantial styling changes, new drive trains, etc. That was the case in 2010 vs 2011 for the X5.

    BMW also makes substantial changes to option packages and pricing from year to year. So for example, a fully loaded 2012 X5 5.0i will cost over $1,000 less than a loaded 2011. That's because navigation and heated seats are standard in 2012 and because options packages bundle features together at lower price by including more options that previosly were stand alone. That typically happens to a greater degree late in the production lifecycle of a particular model.

    It's not "just a marketing ploy". The scenario that you mentioned only happens with BMW with very early release of the next model year. For example, when the 2011 X5 was released on April 1, 2010. Some of the 2011 model's changes to electronics (mobile office, etc) weren't available until October 2010. But the styling changes and new engines were available and those matter most.
  • Thanks for the reply. After I finished typing and sending the message, I thought "that's not going to be enough information", but you helped me out. Also, are the deals "really" going to be that much better in the next couple of days, before the end of the year? I find myself pushing hard to get something closed before then, and am wondering if it is really worth the rush.
  • abmwfanabmwfan Posts: 47
    edited December 2011
    The end of year cash incentive for 1k ends soon. That only is available in nov to dec. Also, lease residuals change january 1. They could stay the same or go up or down. Your dealer should know the answer by now.
  • Hi all, does anyone know current incentives on 2012 X5s - diesel, and regular models. I was hoping to find out about incentives as well as buy rate on MF for 36 month lease 15k miles. I am a current BMWFS customer in case that helps ... I'm in California. Thanks so much.
  • Hi lvit. The answer to your question is no, I don't believe that BMW is offering any money factor reductions for loyal customers in the new year.

    Car_man
    Host
    Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum
  • Hi alexkoper. BMW Financial Services' January buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36-month lease of a base 2012 X5 with 15,000 miles per year are .00195 and 57%, respectively.

    The January numbers for an otherwise identical lease of an X5 Diesel are .00195 and 56%.

    I do not believe that BMW is providing a money factor reduction for loyal customers any longer.

    Car_man
    Host
    Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum
  • Thanks Car_Man! Really appreciate it. Are you aware of any manufacturer to dealer or manufacturer to consumer incentives? Am I better off waiting? Seems like I could get the same car for much less in 2011 ...

    Very grateful for your help.

    P.S. when you say base model, do the extra packages, etc change the residual much?
  • abmwfanabmwfan Posts: 47
    edited January 2012
    Alexkoper - residual percentages don't change when you add options. The residual rate is set according to the model, number of lease years, and the number of miles per year on the lease.

    The residual percentage normally decreases by 1% for each increment in annual lease miles (10k, 12k, 15k). Each increment in annual mileage allowance will cost you about $16/month for a 36 month lease. ((1% x negotiated final price) / 36).

    When you add options, the payment changes because you are paying the same depreciation rate (100% - Residual) on a more expensive car.

    For a 36 month lease with 15k miles, payments generally change by about $30/month per $1,000 increase/decrease in price. Add 10k of options, and your lease payment will increase by $300/month. That's very easy to do on a BMW.

    Ask your salesman to show you the lease residual chart from BMW. Sometimes you will find that a particular model has a much higher residual and you can get a nicer more expensive car for almost the same lease payment because the residual value is higher.
  • You're very welcome alexkoper. Options don't directly affect your vehicle's residual values, but its trim level does. The residuals for the base, Premium, and Sport X5 models are all slightly different.

    Your assessment of the current programs is spot on...they definitely were better in December than they are now. It's difficult to say what BMW's future incentives will be like, but I doubt that they'll be much worse than the current programs.

    Car_man
    Host
    Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum
  • Hi All!

    I think I may have missed the boat, great deals were happening last month. I stopped into a dealership yesterday inquiring about leasing a 2012 x5 35i, but was told really no difference in the leasing deals. These cars don't seem to be sitting at dealerships and have to be ordered, which waiting a few weeks is not a problem for me. BMW is advertising lease specials for x5 models. Are these deals negotiable? For example, they have:

    Well equipped including great features such as iPod/USB Adapter, Hi-Fi Sound System, Roof Rails, BMW Assist, Cargo Cover and Destination charges. A car with an msrp of $48,895
    $569*/month for 36 months

    • $569 First months payment
    • $3,000 Down payment
    • $0 Security Deposit
    • $725 Acquisition fee
    • $4,294 Cash due at signing

    Or: For the premium trim x5 with an msrp of $56,095.

    Well equipped including features such as Auto Closing Tailgate, Lumbar Support, Heated Front Seats, Park Distance Control, BMW Assist, and Cargo Cover and Destination Charges.
    $629*/month for 36 months

    • $629 First months payment
    • $3,000 Down payment
    • $0 Security Deposit
    • $725 Acquisition fee
    • $4,354 Cash due at signing

    Are these good deals? What if anything is negotiable? I am a current BMW owner and not sure if there are current incentives for owners? Any help is appreciated.
  • abmwfanabmwfan Posts: 47
    edited January 2012
    ShortyRock32, I confirmed with my dealer that owner loyalty is no longer available, but don't be too disappointed about missing the Nov/Dec BMW sales event and owner loyalty. ("I think I may have missed the boat, great deals were happening last month.")

    That's because sometimes you can still end up with close to the same lease payment or even better after the promotions end.

    The sales event that ended January 3rd had cash and owner loyalty that would give you a combined $2,000 cash on an X5. But the lease residuals on some X5 models/trim levels were lower in Nov/Dec 2011. If you compare Nov/Dec lease residuals to 2012 residuals, you will find that some of the residuals increased on January 3rd. BMW pays for sale campaigns in part by tinkering with residuals.

    So don't assume that you missed out and have to wait until the next "sale" a year from now. You may not see much difference in your payment if you properly negotiate the deal (described in detail in this forum last month.)

    Ask your salesman to show you the lease residual chart and look for models/trims that have higher residual value. A few points of residual are more valuable than a couple thousand cash back.

    For example, I leased a 2012 X5 5.0 last month for the same payment as a comparably optioned 3.5d (my first choice) even though the 5.0 was more expensive and the diesel had an additional $2,500 credit. That's because the residual on the 5.0 was several points higher than the diesel.

    Are you a BMW Car Club member? Members still get a check for $1,000 on an X5. I don't know why more BMW owners don't maintain a membership if they plan to buy/lease a BMW. A $50 membership gets you a $1,000 check.
  • Thank you so much for taking the time to respond to my message!!! Great information! I wasn't aware about being a car club member?!? I will have to look into this, assuming I can find that information on the BMW USA site??? Definitely worth it! So basically, I shouldn't go by the advertised numbers/deals so much? In the end, it's the higher the residual points, the better the deal? This is so new to me. This will be the 2nd car I will have ever leased. Went into the first one without knowing a thing (Cayenne). This time, I feel like I want a little more knowledge on my side. Can you tell me if ALL BMW dealers all have the same residual chart or does it vary?
  • abmwfanabmwfan Posts: 47
    edited January 2012
    No matter what terms are advertised, my recommendation is to always negotiate the deal. The advertised lease terms are only an example and include a lot of assumptions for things like how much the dealer will discount the car off MSRP. You can almost always do better. If you ask for the advertised terms, the dealer will gladly give you that deal because they'll make more money than if you negotiate the lease.

    The December posts in this forum offer a lot of tips on how to negotiate a lease. The residual is important, but other things are important too: discount off MSRP, money factor, options, etc.

    Residuals are set by BMW. All the dealers in your area should be using the same residuals if you're financing through BMW Finance. The terms would be different if you lease through a different bank.

    Note that the BMW Car Club membership must be active for at least one year before you buy your car. They changed it back in the late 1990s because people were signing up for a membership on the same day they bought their car, taking the rebate, and then letting their membership lapse. So it won't help you today if you're not already a member, but it's something that every BMW owner should be aware of if they ever plan to buy/lease another BMW.
  • My dealer told me that $2000 is the most they are going off MSRP because the car is completely sold out and needs to be ordered? Do I have any leverage anywhere else in the cost of the vehicle, to negotiate a lower price? This is for a lease with 15,000 mi. per year.

    PS. Thanks again for that BMW Car Club information. I was able to find out how to sign up and contacted their customer service who told me I would have to be a member for 1 year before purchasing a new vehicle. Too bad for now, but GREAT to know for future leases.
  • abmwfanabmwfan Posts: 47
    edited January 2012
    Was that your dealer's opening price in the negotiation or their "final" price?

    I custom order all my BMWs and my dealer does not offer me less discount off MSRP because an order has to be placed. Roughly 80% of X5 and X3 orders are placed by the customer. BMW's sales process and the plant in Spartanburg, SC are built around custom ordering. It's how they operate and it's not a valid justification to charge you more (if that's what is happening.) I'm sure your dealer would prefer that you buy something off the lot, but that line about being "completely sold out" is just a sales tactic. He wants you to think that the car is so hot that you should pay more.

    To know if you are getting an acceptable price, ask the dealer to tell you how much above invoice they want to charge. Don't judge the deal by how much they are discounting off MSRP. There are different opinions on how much above invoice is reasonable to pay for a BMW, but a common range to my experience is $750 - $1,250 above dealer invoice (and then subtract incentives from that number.)

    In general, BMW dealers will not sell at or below invoice when you are placing an order, so don't expect that unless you're a really good negotiator. And it is winter, so X5s are in demand.

    There are some very detailed posts here in December that describe how to negotiate a lease.

    But keep it all in perspective. Don't let worry about a couple hundred dollars of purchase price ruin the excitement or convince you to take a car that's not your first choice. $250 difference in price is about $7/month on a 36 month lease payment. It's not the end of the world if you didn't fine tune the last penny out of the deal.

    You always have leverage because you can shop their deal around and buy from another dealer. Or, consider a buying service (USAA, Costco, credit union, American Express, etc. etc.) that can help you with the negotiation. When I asked my dealer last month about the Costco buying price, he said it was about $1,250 above invoice minus incentives. That might serve as a benchmark for what's reasonable. If the price is too high and the dealer won't budge, tell him you're not happy with the price and you plan to use a buying service and shop around at other dealers. Ask him to beat the buying service price to keep you from ending up at another dealer. Hopefully it won't come to that.

    Carman might be able to give you some better tips.
  • shortyrock302shortyrock302 Posts: 7
    edited January 2012
    This was the opening. Met him Saturday, but didn't have an actual car to test drive, showed me one that was going out to a new owner. These numbers were all via email communication this evening. We never really started any talk until today. For example, quoted me on a 35i premium, MSRP $60,695, dealer cost 56,895. Looking at about $871.58, taxes and fees included. Taxes 3.75%, plus rolling in some tax credit (approx $1219) from trading in my lease there. Have an appointment to go in Thursday.
  • Hey there Car guy. Just got a quote from BH BMW in Los Angeles and wanted to pass it buy you. MSRP 61,625
    Residual 58.00%
    Lease end value,35742.50
    Initial cap coast 56,008.32
    cash cap reduction 408.81
    sales tax 2,402.13 (ouch)
    adds to cap 45.00
    adjusted cap cost 45,644.51
    money factor 0.00195
    term 36
    miles 12,000/year
    base monthly 731.03
    total with everything 795.00
    Drive off 2,500
    Annual fees 465.00

    what's up with the adjusted cap cost? and should I get the dealer invoice #
    THANKS!!
  • Just out interest what package/options was this?
    And does anyone know if we can still apply for Government Tax rebate on X5 Diesel and if so what is that?

    Thanks
  • chad39chad39 Posts: 4
    Just got offered the following after alot of negotiations. Is it a fair deal?
    2012 x5d

    Msrp $69,375
    Selling Price $63,245
    Money factor .00195 :)
    Residual $38,500
    36 months
    15,000 miles
    5,000 down
    Monthly payment $786

    Please advice!
  • This was with a premier package. I'd also like to know the answer to the Government Tax rebate. Thanks
  • chad39chad39 Posts: 4
    Car man - does this appear to be a fair deal?

    MSRP $69,375
    Residual $38,850
    Money Factor .00195
    Money due at signing including all fees, first month payment, etc $5,000
    Received $2,500 ECO Credit
    Selling Price $63,245
    Monthly Payment $786

    Thanks
This discussion has been closed.