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2013 and earlier BMW X5 Lease Questions

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  • x54bdx54bd Posts: 1
    Hello Car_Man,

    This is more than a bit embarrassing...

    I have been shopping to buy a 2012 X5 xDrive35d, and then I was presented a lease deal that seemed great. I signed on the dotted line only to find out I did not get a very good deal. Shame on me for not doing the investigation first. I ordered the car about a week ago with delivery expected at the end of November. The unit is now sitting in the VPC in Port Elizabeth and will likely be delayed a bit (a few days or more) due to the current X5 35d Stop Sales memo by BMW because of a bolt issue.

    Here is the deal I agreed to:

    MRSP: 67,800

    Incentives:
    $4500 eco
    $1500 holiday
    $750 loyalty

    The sales guy says he took another 2k off. Thats puts the deal at $59,050

    The quoted MF=.00145
    Residual was said to be 53%
    These seem to be inline with your posts on this matter, though others have said I can get MF=.00125 and residual of 56%

    The deal I accepted called for $2500 at signing and $840/month for 36 months.. 12k miles/year. This includes 6% tax.

    Using BMWconfig the invoice is $63,365... add $1000 for the dealer/sales guy mark-up and minus incentives = $57615
    The BMWconfig tool says the deal (including tax) should be about $2500 at signing and $780/month.

    grrrrrrrr!

    This is a lesson learned. But I am hoping its not to late. Here are my questions:

    1) Am I doing the math correctly? Is the deal I accepted $840 based on the terms I described?

    2) Is the $780/month the correct number based on $1k over invoice?

    3) Are the MF and residual correct? If not, what are they?

    4) What is a fair deal for this X5?

    4) Can I renegotiate? I have not taken possession yet. Can I say I feel like I have been taken advantage of and that I want out of this deal unless they come down to $780/month? (if this is the correct number.)

    I really like the car, and I *don't* want to walk from the deal, but I feel like I've been had. Again, lesson learned. And again, I hope its not too late to rectify this issue.

    Thanks very much for your timely reply Car_Man (and/or others!)
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    A couple of things don't smell right here:

    (1) You "ordered" the car a week ago and it's already sitting in a port? When I ordered our X5d on July 13, it took several days just to get back a production number and slot, another 3-4+/- weeks for the car to queued into production and built. It was ready for pick up in late August, and that was a week ahead of the 6 week estimate I was given when we placed the order. There is no way that you could have custom ordered a car from scratch a week ago and have it sitting at a port today. So what exactly do you mean by "order" - a dealer trade or taking an existing/dealer order vehicle that was already in process? Because if that's the case, you may have a little more leverage than if you actually had the car built to your own personal specifications.

    (2) It looks like the price you negotiated is $1,440 over your (new) $1,000 over invoice target. Not sure how that translates into a full $1,440 more in lease payments over 24 months (i.e. $60/moth), but maybe that's lease math (and why I always buy). On the positive side, does that make the eco credit worth nearly $200 per month??

    I'm not a lawyer or financial advisor, but I think you hit the nail on the head with the "shame on me for not doing the investigation first". If this is a car that the dealer had coming anyway, I would try hard to renegotiate the deal. But if this was a vehicle that they customized for you - and got a deposit with the order - I wouldn't blame the dealer for holding you to the deal or keeping the deposit. I'm in the middle of an extreme example - negotiating on a brand new 2011 Porsche 911 GTS that was custom ordered 18 months ago and the buyer defaulted. Dealer kept a $5k deposit (way too low), but they have been unable to sell the car since. It's now gone from bad to worse. We are now haggling between the $33k discount they offered and my proposal at $40k off. Either way, the dealer is taking a huge bath. Maybe in your case you could agree to split the difference and chalk it up to lessons learned.
  • All - Any thoughts on buying my vehicle out of lease. Have a 2010 X530i due in at end of December. Outstanding condition with only 19.5k miles on a 30k allowance. Purchase price around $35.6k -- Trade in estimate around $37k, Dealer reatil about $42k. Option is to buy or purchase/lease 2013 X5. Any insights would be approciated. Thanks.
  • Mack, make them an offer of $32k. Try different dealers. I did that a few years ago. One dealer would not budge on price other worked with me and I purchased my lease for a reasonable amount. Plus they certified the car, put new tires on it and detailed it.
  • Thanks very much for your response habitat1...

    It was indeed an existing/dealer order vehicle that was already built and on its way to the dealer. Now, if I can just get delivery! Stuck in VPC getting a new bolt!

    BTW, I was able to get them down to $780! Thanks again for your feedback.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Congratulations on getting a better deal - and enjoy your X5d - we love ours. It would have been the right choice for you even at the higher price. Now you can enjoy an extra inner out every month. :)
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Congratulations on getting a better deal - and enjoy your X5d - we love ours. It would have been the right choice for you even at the higher price. Now you can enjoy an extra dinner out every month. :)
  • Hi Everyone,

    I just leased my first BMW - an X5d. I was happy with the price given the eco credit. I ordered it in October and just picked it up yesterday. When I originally negotiated the deal, the residual factor on the three year lease was .57. When I picked it up yesterday, they told me that the residual value had decreased to .53. They said there was nothing they could do about it, that it was set by BMW. They said that they are now producing the 2013s and when I ordered mine in October is was a 2012 and that is the reason for the change. Does this sound reasonable or did they pull yet another fast one?
  • sunnyvalisunnyvali Posts: 32
    edited December 2012
    They are pulling a fast one on you. The rate it good for at least 30 days and in CA for 90 days. Here is what I would do. Tell them you can't buy the car and will order 2013 later on. Unless you signed a binding contract, your deposit is refundable. The X5 in not in your name yet. The dealer owns it and bought it from BMW. You have no obligation to buy it.

    One thing to confirm is that the residual was 57%. It seems high for a 12k/yr lease.

    I hope this helps.

    *** If you have already leased the car, then there is not a whole lot you can do now ***
  • deenxdeenx Posts: 16
    No... they did not pull a fast one.

    I tried to lease an X5d this week and the deal was so bad I had to walk out. $1500 margin for the dealer after the Eco-credit and holiday incentives were applied to the invoice. NJ is a very difficult place to obtain a reasonable lease on a BMW.
  • I came very close to signing on the dotted line for a brand new X5 35d last night (36 Mo, 12K/yr Lease). But after 3+ hours at the dealership, doing my best to wear them down, I decided to walk away with a copy of the deal sheet and think about it over the weekend.

    Here are the basic details:
    MSRP: $65,295
    Invoice: $60,270
    Initial Cap Cost: $57,000 (post Eco-Credit)
    Residual: 53%
    Residual Value: $34,606.35
    LMF: 0.00125
    * Trade-In: $4,150
    Happier New Year Rebate: $1,500
    Drive-Off: $5,650
    ** Bank Fee: $925.00
    ** Bank Fee / Doc DO: $116.00
    DMV Fees: $471.00
    $699.93/mo Payment (Incl Taxes)

    Notes:
    * I'm taking it on the chin here, I know. I just can't spend the time to sell my car privately, given my work travel schedule. Plus, it needs some work (a good $1,000 to make it presentable). I'd rather trade it in and be done with it. I'm probably down $1,850 on this aspect of the deal.

    ** Are these negotiable? The dealership did not do a good job selling me on why these fees exist other than blaming BMWFS ("They need to make money, too").

    How would you grade this deal (A-F)? My gut instinct says the negotiated cap cost is strong but the extra fees and low-ball trade-in are weak. Overall though, is this deal a winner?
  • mlevinemlevine Posts: 205
    Car man, I would appreciate lease numbers on the X5 35i premium 24 and 36 months at 12,000 miles per year, and also any new incentives. Thanks for your help.
  • mlevinemlevine Posts: 205
    By looking at your deal I would have also walked out. Based on the information present you need to take the $4500 eco credit, $1500 holiday credit, and trade in value from the invoice and work your way up. The price would be $50,120. Bank fee needs to be added and also a dealer profit try anywhere from $500 to $1000. Remember they are making money on your trade in. Motor vehicle fees are standard, but other fees are all profit. I would give only motor vehicle fees and 1 st month up front. I would have to grade your deal as a F.
  • Newbie here. More than likely some of my questions are redundant to others but would love some advice.

    I currently own a 2011 x5 diesel (white exterior, oyster interior, premium package + running boards).

    I am interested in purchasing a new x5 diesel due to the savings being offered. $4,500 eco credit, $1,500 holiday credit, and $750 loyalty credit. I drive roughly 15-17k miles a year, so a lease is probably not my best option. The x5 I just built online came out to be $64,645 with the Sport Activity Package, Premium Package, and running boards. Subtract the discounts ($6,750) and I have $57,895 which should include destination and handeling.

    Do I have any wiggle room? I'm not sure what the market up is online? Fortunately/unfortunately my 2011 was a company car and this time it is on me, so the first go round I didn't pay as much attention to the details because it was being covered. Any other cost I should be aware of?

    Lastly, my 2011 has 29,000 miles. I'm hoping to sell privately for $44-45k. BMW in my hometown says $40-41k is the best they could do. Any thoughts?
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Welcome to the board and hope I can help a little.

    (1) Your $64,645 MSRP must include a few other options? We bought a 2012 X5d with Premium, Sport Activity Package (19" wheels), running boards and BMW Apps. It had an MSRP of $63,875, as I recall.

    (2) You definitely have a lot more wiggle room in the price. The discounts you quoted should be subtracted AFTER the dealer discounts the MSRP down to $1,000 or less above invoice. Check Edmunds for those figures, but I would expect the dealer discount to be at least $3,000-$3,500 off MSRP. Meaning that your total discount off MSRP would be $9,750 to $10,250.

    (3) There are a couple of costs that Edmunds does not include in their invoice price - MACO and processing fees. For my dealer, those were about $400 total. That still means that you should not pay any more than $1,000 over invoice to the dealer, and then get the benefit of the $6,750 discounts subtracted from that number.

    (4) If your dealer is willing to discount the new vehicle to get you a bottom line price of $54,500 (or whatever the correct MSRP is, less $10k+/-), then I think the $40-$41k they are offering for your 2011 w/ 29k miles is reasonable. Especially if your state allows you to deduct that amount of trade in to figure your state sales tax on the balance. If you are in a 6% sales tax state like Maryland, that will save you $2,400+ in sales tax. But, if the dealer was offering $40-41k on a trade that had you paying full MSRP for the new car, that's a terrible deal. Get to the bottom line on the new vehicle first, then negotiate your trade.

    (5) If you have the time and live remotely within driving distance of Spartanburg, South Carolina consider ordering a new 2013 to your exact specs through the dealer and picking it up yourself at the BMW Performance Delivery Center. They put you up for a night in the Marriott, you get a full morning on the track and off road course in their vehicles, lunch, factory tour, museum tour, and personal delivery of your new vehicle. It is an absolute first class operation and an experience that you will never forget. It took us about 5-6 weeks from placing the order to having the car built and ready for pick up.
  • Habitat1,

    Thank you so much for taking the time to write me such a detailed response. I initially responded but had one follow up question. As you mentioned, I have looked at the Edmunds TMV and it is showing me three columns 1) Invoice 2) MSRP, and 3) True Market Value. If I am understanding you correctly, and please correct me if I am wrong, their offer (even if I build on bmwusa.com should be no more than $1,000 over the invoice; not the TMV... And this is taking into account MACO and processing fees?

    I live in North Carolina, so will need to check on the state deductions for trade in vs sales tax on new vehicle. My initial thought of $40k trade-in seemed ridiculous considering the MSRP, so you have calmed my anxiety and frustration somewhat.

    Thanks again.
  • What are the money factor and residual value for December on a 2013 X5 Xdrive35i Sport and also a Xdrive50i? 36 month, 10k a year. I would appreciate any feedback on this.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    tarheel,

    Well, I should have guessed from your name that you were close enough to South Carolina to do the Performance Delivery Center pickup. Don't even consider buying an X5d off the lot or have it delivered to the dealership. I will never buy another BMW any other way than through the Performance Delivery Center pickup.

    Back to your questions, yes, you should use the Edmunds invoice numbers (not TMV) add $1,000+/- dealer profit and perhaps add another $300-$400 for the MACO that is not included in the Edmunds invoice. Then subtract all of your discounts. Have the dealer show you on their invoice printout, what their MACO is; it can vary dealer by dealer and state by state.

    Good luck.
  • scooter75scooter75 Posts: 10
    edited December 2012
    Hi guys-

    Can you guys weigh in on how good or bad these terms are.

    Lease 2012 35D Sticker 65,295
    Invoice 60,105
    Negotiated price 60855
    Rebates total 6750
    Actual car cost 54105
    Cash down 5700
    includes...725 acq fee
    549 first month
    400 reg and title etc
    450 tax
    3576 down payment
    Money factor .00125
    Residual 54%
    Monthly $550.

    Thanks!!!!!
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Price looks good at $750 over invoice. I take it this is brand new vehicle, no demo, loaner, with only delivery miles on odometer? If it's a factory build to order, do YOU live close enough to Spartanburg to take advantage of the Performance Delivery Center pick up?

    Can't really comment on the lease terms, as I only buy and haven't shopped leases.
  • Thanks for the timely help. It's brand new...on the lot..but exactly what I was looking for...except the sat radio. I wouldn't take delivery in sc solid miss out on that.just wondering if I couldn't get the same deal on a 13....1500 less Eco.....and pick it up in sc
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I don't know if the 2013 X5d's can be ordered yet, but if they can, I would definitely go for it, and do the Performance Delivery Center pick up. Even if you have to pay a few hundred more for a '13 over a '12, it's worth it on resale if you plan to sell or trade inside of 8-10 years and 120k miles. It may take 4-6 weeks for your car to get built, but according to my dealer, even if I waited until mid-late December to order a 2013 M3 and not pick it up until February (coming from Germany) I'd still get the holiday savings incentive.

    Check into it. BMW of Silver Spring would probably do a deal at $1,000 over invoice on a 2013 X5d order, if you need to rustle up some competition.
  • scooter75scooter75 Posts: 10
    edited December 2012
    Actual purchase price ended up right at invoice. I went with the 12...The 13 even with a great price would have been 100 bucks more a month to lease.

    Thanks for your help hab....and everyone else feel free to weigh in...I have 14 hours before I sign!!!

    LOL
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I'm not sure why the '13 would be $100 more than the '12? Did BMW drop the $4,500 eco-credit, or some other credit? If you just paid $1,000 more - i.e. $1000 over invoice - that should only translate into about $25-$30 per month on a 36 month lease, unless I'm missing something.

    In any event, it sounds like you have a very good deal at invoice on the '12 and given that you are leasing, the fact that it is an one year older model year will make no financial difference to you when you turn in the keys. So I'd say go for it, congratulations and start enjoying the vehicle.
  • Thanks H. Between the 1500 reduction in the ECO credit...and the 1000 more over invoice...it shot up pretty quick. Maybe it was 75 a month or something. Plus the guys here didnt want to do it at 1000 right now so I would have had to look around....then travel.

    I think im good...always wonder if you couldnt have gotten a bit more though :)
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    So the 2013 eco-credit is down to $3,000? First I've heard that.

    I think you did great. At least $1,250 better than I did in July, based upon holiday credit (I had $1,000 Olympic), and I paid closer to $750 over invoice. Congratulations.
  • Yeah, down to 3000 on the Eco.
  • Should I be paying sales tax on the 6750 in incentives H? Just noticed that line seems odd.

    Thanks
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    In my deal, the dealer subtracted the incentives before calculating the sales tax on the reduced amount. This was Maryland.
  • On a lease they say have to pay state sales tax on the 6750 tht bmw is giving me on rebates. As though its a gift. Very odd.
This discussion has been closed.