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2013 and earlier Cadillac CTS Lease Questions

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  • I got a quote from the dealer today and the lease worksheet doesn't agree with my lease calculator. Any idea why?

    http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/paperboyNC/LeaseWorksheet.jpg
    http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/paperboyNC/photo.png

    Thanks!
  • delta737hdelta737h Posts: 603
    edited August 2010
    paperboyccc,

    "I got a quote from the dealer today and the lease worksheet doesn't agree with my lease calculator. Any idea why?"

    Yup. First, let's summarize the dealer's lease worksheet...

    MSRP..................................................... 45,390.00
    Sell Price (S)........................................... 45,390.00 (Sell Price = MSRP- not good)

    GMAC Acquisition Fee (A)....................... 795.00

    Gross Capitalized Cost (G)................... 46,185.00 (S + A)
    Cap Reduction (D)............................... 7,442.36 (17.36 + 7,425.00)
    Adjusted Capitalized Cost (C)............... 38,742.64 (G - D)

    GMAC Lease Rate............................. 0.25%
    Term (N)........................................... 24

    Residual Factor................................ 51%
    Residual Value................................ 23,148.90 (Res Factor x MSRP)

    Base Monthly Payment................... 656.32
    CA Tax @8.750%.......................... 57.43
    Monthly Lease Payment w/tax........ 713.75

    I calculated the same GMAC base payment of 656.32. The dealer's worksheet is 100% correct.

    It appears that you have an AT&T iphone LeasePro App. There are several glaring disparities between this App and the dealer's worksheet...

    (1) The selling price in the App (37,947.64) differs from the dealer's selling price (45,390.00) which is also the MSRP.

    (2) The cap reductions are different. The App shows 2,800.00 while the wroksheet shows 7,442.36. Looks like you're using the amount due at lease signing ($2,800) as a cap reduction which is incorrect.

    (3) The App shows 1,483 of cap additions (amounts financed) while the dealer worksheet shows the 795 acquisition fee as the only amount financed. I have no idea where you're getting 1,483.

    (4) The App is using your inputs to compute a payment of 617.66. This payment in incorrect. Given YOUR inputs, the payment should be 567.91 given that the rate is 0.25% (an interest rate). If I convert the interest rate to the approximate money factor (i.e., 0.25/2400) and use the money factor formula, I get a payment of 567.97 which is a difference of only $0.06. So, I have no clue how this flawed App is getting 617.66. I would delete this App if I were you.

    My take on commercially prepared lease software is that you use them at your own risk. Several years ago, a software provider (it may have been LeasePro) asked me how GMAC payments are calculated. I refused to tell them as they're software providers and should understand the mathematics of how GMAC computes lease payments. They also wanted something for nothing. My impression was that they were no more than capitalists with little interest in academics and that pissed me off because I'm the exact opposite.

    One other thing, you need to get an itemization of the $2,800 due at lease signing. I'm sure it includes 1st payment (713.75), DMV fee (635.00), Tire fee (8.75), plus applicable taxes. But, something is missing that's not reflected in the worksheet.

    I hope this helps.

    Questions? Please let me know.

    John
  • Delta,

    Thanks you for your help. I made a few mistakes entering the info into my app. I considered the Cadillac discount as price reduction rather than cap reduction (which is taxable). I put the DMV fees both as cap reduction and cap addition (which confuses taxes). And I put the first month's payment as cap reduction.

    You can see that if I put the raw numbers in and turn off taxes, it gets basically the same numbers:
    http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/paperboyNC/leasecar2.png

    You said: "The App is using your inputs to compute a payment of 617.66. This payment in incorrect. Given YOUR inputs, the payment should be 567.91"

    It's because of the 8.75% sales tax. $567.91 x 0.875 = $49.69 + 567.91 = $617.60.

    The basic issue is that none of the $2800 downpayment is going towards cap reduction. My guess is something like this:

    $713.75 - 1st month's payment
    $651.21 - 8.75% tax on cap reduction
    $625.00 - DMV Fee
    $8.75 - Tire Fee
    $59 - Dealer Doc Fee
    ------------------------------------------
    $2057.71 total
    $742.29 who knows??

    Can't they use the $7442.36 in such a way that it doesn't result in that $651 in extra taxes?
  • delta737hdelta737h Posts: 603
    edited August 2010
    paperboyccc,

    Apparently, you showed only the summary page as I didn't see any input for sales tax (i.e., 8.75%) and, accordingly, never considered taxes.

    "$742.29 who knows??"

    That's why you need to get an itemization from the dealer.

    "Can't they use the $7442.36 in such a way that it doesn't result in that $651 in extra taxes? "

    Nope. Whether they use the amount to reduce the capcost or use it to cover the upfront fees, you're going to pay tax.

    Also, I do not advise making a down payment (i.e., cap reduction). A car is a depreciating asset purchased for consumption; and so, it's an expense and not an investment. No savvy investor would ever invest in stock that they know will depreciate or lose value over time. Also, if the vehicle is totalled or stolen, and never recovered, you risk losing part or all of your down payment.

    I suggest that you use the rebate, if possible, to offset the upfront lease charges and take the balance in cash. My guess is that they won't let you do this and so, the balance will likely have to be applied toward reducing the gross cap. Oh well.

    John
  • Delta,

    I know I need the itemization from the dealer. This was their quote with no negotiations. I want to plug in the numbers I think they can do to my lease calculator and see if it's within my budget before I bother negotiating. I think I can afford the base model of this vehicle at $37,290 but I'm really bothered by the taxes on the $7442.36. I've gotten lease quotes from other dealers and not had this issue. Mercedes has a $4500 discount on C350s that is not taxable.

    PaperboyNC
  • delta737hdelta737h Posts: 603
    edited August 2010
    paperboy,

    Discounts and rebates are two totally different things. If a dealer is willing to "discount" the selling price; then the discount is not taxable because it's not really cash. It's no different that going to a clothier and buying shirts at 50% off the regular retail price. you're not paying tax on the regular price, rather, you're paying tax on the discounted price.

    On the other hand, cash incentives, "rebates", etc., coming from the manufacturer are treated as being equivalent to cash and, therefore, are taxable.

    John
  • Thanks John - I think I'll buy an Infiniti G37 in that case. The CTS ends up being out of my budget.
  • yesterday, leased 2010 CTS (Bradenton, FL)
    MSRP $37,540
    Residual 53%
    27 months/22,500 miles
    monthly lease payment (315.60 plus 22.09 sales tax) is $337.69
    at closing used $2,930 of GM Card points and $350 cash for security deposit.

    includes CCR $6425;

    let me know, if anyone wants additional information

    Bob W
  • suzay22suzay22 Posts: 11
    Can anyone explain the $6425 cash incentive to me? I'm really baffled over it. I can't see why a dealer would go 6K under invoice towards a lease but if that's the case please explain so I can work a deal. With 0% financing for 72 months I have to wonder if it's worth leasing but if the incentive is true then I assume it may be better to lease. Anyone have the numbers for the CTS AWD Luxury.....36 or 39 month 12K/year? Thanks. :confuse:
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 28,048
    Cadillac pays the dealer $6425 when they lease the car to a customer... It makes for a cheap lease, and helps move the dealer's inventory, so they can buy more cars from Cadillac.

    Of course, it only makes for a cheap lease, if the dealer passes that amount along to the buyer, in the form of a lower selling price... You still have to negotiate the best deal you can..

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • suzay22suzay22 Posts: 11
    Thanks.......makes perfect sense however, what a difference the $6K span can make for all of us when negotiating. Some may be able to work it really low.....others migh not be so fortunate. With that incentive invoice doesn't look so great now.
  • birdlivsbirdlivs Posts: 18
    Hello,

    I see the 24 month rates, but please let me know about the 36 month 2010 Base CTS and Luxury CTS with 12K mile lease rates. Also, can the conquest cash be combined with the $6425 cash incentive? Are there any restrictions? Thanks!
  • suzay22suzay22 Posts: 11
    I'm not positive on these numbers but I've asked and haven't had anyone post. I was told for the Luxury AWD 39/12K it is 2.3% and 44%. The 2011 numbers are much better and even with the cash incentive of $6425, it is less to lease the 2011 as the residual is at 54%! So if anyone can confirm or deny this please do but I'm going for the 2011 as I've been quoted a much lower payment on it.
  • birdlivsbirdlivs Posts: 18
    2.3% seems high! After reviewing previous posts, it looks more like .25%

    Carman, can you confirm the lease rates, residuals etc on the CTS Base and Luxury? Thanks!
  • Hi Car_Man:

    Thanks for the great service you do!

    Can you help me get close to what my lease payment will be upon leasing?
    2010 CTS Premium
    MSRP=$48,685
    Selling Price=$46,685
    36 month lease, 10k per year, 1st payment [can I buy the lease down at inception with $1500 cash to drop payments?]
    I understand about the $6425 CCR from GMAC.

    Thanks again!

    Alex
  • simon24simon24 Posts: 2
    Hi,

    I am trying to take advantage of the 2010 lease deal that was advertised as $1,999 due at signing, 27 months, $349 per month, 10K miles. I notice a lot of people mentioning GMAC offering cash incentives. How does this factor into the lease deal? Would these cash incentives be above and beyond the specifics of the lease deal? Thanks!
  • simon24simon24 Posts: 2
    Hi, I am trying to take advantage of the same deal. The deal as I understand it is 1,999 due at signing. I don't understand though the GMAC cash incentive. Did that come into play for you?
  • You're very welcome, bokonon. The residual values for the AWD model are actually 1% higher than they are for the RWD model.

    Car_man
    Host
    Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum
  • Hi socalbmmr. Here's the information that you're looking for.

    Through September 7th, GMAC's base lease rate and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2010 Cadillac CTS-V with 12,000 miles per year are 1.8% and 49%, respectively for consumers who quality for its top credit tier.

    GMAC's lease rate for an otherwise identical lease of a 2011 CTS-V drops to 1.0%.

    When negotiating your deal on these cars, make sure to take the massive $6,425 cash incentive that is available on leases of the 2010 model and $1,600 that is available on leases of the 2011 model through GMAC into account.

    Car_man
    Host
    Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum
  • Hey suzay22. I'm saying that General Motors is providing a $6,425 cash incentive on leases of this car through GMAC at no cost to the dealer. In essence this means that its dealer invoice price is that much lower than the one that is published here at Edmunds.com. How much over that price you have to pay depends upon what sort of deal you negotiate with the dealer.

    Through September 7th, GMAC's base lease rates and residual values for a 36 month lease of a 2010 Cadillac CTS Sedan AWD Luxury with 15,000 miles per year are 1.8% and 47%, respectively.

    Unfortunately, I don't believe that General Motors is currently providing any owner loyalty cash incentives on this car.

    Car_man
    Host
    Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum
  • Hello birdlivs.

    Through September 7th, GMAC' base lease rate and residual value for a 36 month lease of a base 2010 Cadillac CTS Sedan with 12,000 miles per year are 1.8% and 43%, respectively.

    The numbers for the 2010 CTS Sedan Luxury are the same.

    Car_man
    Host
    Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum
  • You're very welcome, Alex.

    According to my calculations, if you were to lease a 2010 Cadillac CTS Sedan Premium 2WD that has an MSRP of $48,685 and a selling price of 40,260 ($46,685 - $6,425 lease cash) through GMAC right now for 36 months with 10,000 miles per year, your zero down, pre-tax monthly payment would be around $557.

    Car_man
    Host
    Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum
  • Hi simon24. Most likely General Motors is taking the cash incentives that are currently available on leases of the CTS into account in its advertised payments. Having said that, most manufacturers' official advertised payments tend to leave a little meat on the bone so to speak. It makes sense if one thinks about it. Dealers would be pretty irritated with the automaker that they are affiliated with if they advertised the skinniest possible deal on a car or truck.

    If I was interested in leasing a 2010 Cadillac CTS right now, I personally would shoot for a selling price of around $500 over dealer invoice minus the $6,425 cash incentive that is available on leases of it through GMAC.

    Car_man
    Host
    Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum
  • Thanks for the info.....I'm still deciding between two vehicles however, the rates and residual values are way better for the 2011 CTS that after I did the calculations, even with the $6425 it is less to lease the 2011 model. Would you agree with that?
  • Car_man,

    Do you have the current money factor, residual and CCR for the 2010 and 2011 CTS-V for 27 and 36 months with 15k miles per year?

    Thanks
  • That's probably a reasonable assumption, suzay22. This late in the model year it is often less expensive to lease a brand new model than it is to lease a leftover one.

    Car_man
    Host
    Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum
  • Hey autoboy19. Ally's current base lease rate and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2011 Cadillac CTS-V Sedan with 15,000 miles per year are 1.05% and 49%, respectively.

    When negotiating your deal on this car, make sure to take advantage of the $2,000 cash incentive that is currently available on leases of it through Ally.

    General Motors is not providing lease support on the 2010 CTS any longer, but it does have the always attractive 0% financing for up to 6 years on the '10 model.

    Car_man
    Host
    Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum
  • autoboy19autoboy19 Posts: 90
    edited September 2010
    Thanks Car_man.

    Is there no current 27 month lease program?

    Also, do they still have a $1,000 conquest cash? I live in Georgia.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 28,048
    Ally is GMAC..

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • kyfdx,

    Thanks for the clarification. It looks like GMAC became Ally over a year ago, but were using the GMAC name until very recently.
This discussion has been closed.