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2013 and earlier Cadillac CTS Lease Questions

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  • boomboom4boomboom4 Posts: 10
    Thanks Car man. My dealer says the residual is 43% not 47%. He has the interest rate at 1.45. Did they raise the residual from March and lraise the interest rate? I didn't realize the dealer could mark-up(in this case mark down) the residual. Thanks Carman
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Posts: 38,515
    You're welcome boomboom4. Both the dealer and I have this car's lease rate at 1.45%.

    I'm pretty sure that the residual value for a 36 month, 15,000 mile per year lease of a 2010 CTS Performance AWD is 45%. Adding 2% to that for a 12,000 mile per year lease increases it to 47%. There must be some sort of miscommunication between you and the dealer because I don't believe that individual dealers are allowed to alter banks' published residual values.

    Car_man
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  • dotbowelsdotbowels Posts: 43
    edited May 2010
    Local dealer has CTS Luxury AWD with sunroof. 39 month zero down no security deposit plus first month payment up to $800 will be made for me for $499 a month 12,000 miles per year. Does not include local 7% sales tax or annual Motor Vehicle Taxes of a couple thousand dollars that declines each year The car lists for $43,040.

    How do I know what the best deal I can make is? Thanks

    MANUFACTURER'S SUGGESTED RETAIL PRICE $43,040.00
    STANDARD VEHICLE PRICE $41,065.00
    Options installed by Manufacturer
    ULTRAVIEW SUNROOF
    $ 900.00
    TIRE, COMPACT SPARE
    (REPLACES TIRE INFLATOR KIT)
    $ 250.00
    TOTAL OPTIONS $1,150.00
    TOTAL VEHICLE & OPTIONS $42,215.00
    DESTINATION CHARGE $825.00
  • dotbowelsdotbowels Posts: 43
    I would be eligible for any owner loyalty and credit union discounts/incentives if either/or both are available.

    I probably need the money rate for the 39 month and the residual would differ for a 39 versus 36 month

    Thanks again
  • wfk21wfk21 Posts: 8
    Car Man,

    Here is the proposed deal...your thoughts.
    2010 CTS w/ luxury package & sunroof
    Terms 39X12
    GCC $41,501
    CCR $4,620
    Residual $18,452
    Lease end purchae amount $20952
    $536/month includes tax & $5K of excess wear and tear coverage
    I am to pay nothing out of pocket...dealer will pay 1st payment, tag fee, etc.
    Total rebates/noncash credits $5,634
    I am not a current GMAC lessee nor am I trading in another car.
  • My dealer also quoted me a residual of 43%
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Posts: 38,515
    Hi dotbowels. If I was in the market for a Cadillac CTS right now, the first thing that I would do is look up the dealer invoice price of the exact car that I was interested in right here at Edmunds.com: New Vehicle Pricing.

    I would then subtract any available cash incentives that I was eligible for from that, including the $4,100 cash incentive on leases through GMAC and the $1,000 regional conquest cash that is available in some areas.

    Finally I would add around $500 or so to that base price and use it for my offer.

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Posts: 38,515
    Dotbowels, GMAC's 39 month lease rates are exactly the same as its 36 month rates. Its 39 month residual values are usually 2% to 3% lower than its 36 month residuals.

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Posts: 38,515
    Hi wfk21. Does the "GCC" that you mentioned in your post stand for "Gross Capitalized Cost?" If so, that should be this car's selling price prior to the reduction of any cash incentives or down payment.

    The "CCR" is definitely this car's capitalized cost reduction. The question is whether the dealer is asking you to pay that out of your own pocket over and above the cash incentives that are available or if that is the cash incentives.

    The two numbers that you really need to know are the CTS' MSRP and final selling price after the deduction of any incentives. With them, we should be able to estimate how much of a dealer discount you are being given and in turn if there is any room left out to negotiate.

    Car_man
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  • buster6buster6 Posts: 100
    Car Man,

    Could you post the lease numbers for June on the CTS?
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Posts: 38,515
    Hey buster6. Here you go.

    GMAC's June base lease rate and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2010 Cadillac CTS Sedan 3.0L 2WD with 15,000 miles per year are 1.45% and 45%, respectively.

    This car's lease program varies by trim level. Let me know if you're interested in a different version.

    When negotiating your deal, make sure to take advantage of the $4,850 cash incentive that is currently available on leases of this car through GMAC. I believe that General Motors is waiving the first month's payment on leases of this model as well.

    Car_man
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  • I'm in NJ and about the pull the trigger on leasing a 2010 Cadillac CTS Luxury model. The car is RWD, 12k/year, and everything else it comes with is standard in the Luxury package. Tax/titles/etc works out to be around $2,700 down. The price I negotiated with the dealer is $389/month. From what I've seen on these postings the price seems great. Can someone confirm whether or not this is a good deal? I had wanted the base model and could have gotten it for $349/month but they didn't have black.

    Also, does anyone know where I can get a GM Customer Appreciation $1,000 certificate? Can I try calling GM to get one? I didn't attend any of their sponsered events but I do have a GM Credit card.
  • jlkhjlkh Posts: 12
    Are there new incentives for July on the CTS AWD Premium? I dont see any listed on the GM site.
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Posts: 38,515
    Hi jlkh. Most of General Motors' June incentives are scheduled to run through today, July 6th. However, it introduced a special holiday sales event on Cadillac.

    GM is now providing an amazing 0% financing for up to 6 years or $3,000 customer cash or a special lease program through GMAC featuring a $6,425 cash incentive and a low lease rate of 1.8% for 36 months on the 2010 CTS.

    Car_man
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  • jlkhjlkh Posts: 12
    The dealer has provided this price quote:
    2010 CTS AWD 3.6 Premium
    49590 list
    -2767 discount
    -1000 conquest incentive
    sale price 45823
    I am in Illinois, so the 7% sales tax has to be included based on the purchase price.
    36 month, 10K miles per year
    the rate was 1.8%, 47% residual.

    The quote with no money down , all taxes rolled in was $620/month, but it seems high based on the fact that there is the $6425 CCR that should be included.

    Does this seem right?
  • delta737hdelta737h Posts: 603
    edited July 2010
    jlkh,

    You haven't provide enough information for me to determine whether or not the $620 payment makes any sense. However, based on this payment, I can confirm that the adjusted cap cost is $43,794.69 and should only differ from the dealer's figure by no more than a few pennies assuming that the list of 49,590 is the MSRP upon which the residual is calculated.

    Specifically, what is being capitalized (i.e., financed) in the lease besides sales tax? There is a $595 GMAC acquisition fee and I suspect that it's being capped. Is there a dealer doc fee? If so, is it being capped or paid upfront? I'm guessing that you haven't made a cash or trade cap reduction. Is that correct?

    What are you paying upfront? As you can see, there are just too many unknowns. But, if I had to make an educated guess, which I hate doing, I would guess that the $6,425 has already been deducted and, accordingly, is reflected in the $620 payment. Here's why this is plausible...

    MSRP.................. 49,590.00 (assuming list = MSRP)
    MSRP Disc.......... 2,767.00
    Sell Price.............. 46,823.00 (taxable)
    III tax.................... 3,350.00 (est)
    Acq Fee............... 595.00 (taxable)
    Dealer Fees......... 451.69 (inclu doc fees- taxable)
    GROSS CAP....... 51,219.69

    Cap Reductions
    Conquest incentive....1,000.00
    CCR....................... 6,425.00

    ADJ CAP............... 43,794.69
    Res Value............. 23,307.30
    Lease Rate........... 1.8%
    Term................... 36
    Lease Payment.... 620.00

    Amt Due at Signing: 1st Payment + DMV Fees

    This would be my best guess. We can, however, avoid guessing. I suggest that you ask the dealer for their LEASE WORKSHEET. This is a computer generated document and will tell us everything we need to know including the questions I've asked above. If they refuse, RUN; DON'T WALK! Otherwise, you can email it to me at

    diffeq@zoominternet

    and I'll be happy to review for you if you wish. Let me know.

    John
  • jlkhjlkh Posts: 12
    The only money that is due at signing is the $620 first months payment, there is no trade or additional cap reduction. The aquisition fee (595) , doc (150) , license plates (170) and title (65) fee would be the only others. Do you know if GMAC requires a security deposit?

    Assuming that those fees are correct, do the numbers work in your opinion? I will try to get the worksheet from the dealer.
  • delta737hdelta737h Posts: 603
    What does...

    "The aquisition fee (595) , doc (150) , license plates (170) and title (65) fee would be the only others."

    mean?

    Does it mean the only other fees that you're paying upfront? Did you look at my entire post? I still can't answer your question as I would be guessing. I still need more info.

    GMAC may require a security deposit. It depends on your credit.

    John
  • jlkhjlkh Posts: 12
    Yes, those would be the other fees that are rolled into the payment. The only upfront money due at signing is the first lease payment. Of the 5 dealers that responded to my online request, only ONE would even provide any lease price info without going to the dealer! They want to make it difficult to compare.
  • delta737hdelta737h Posts: 603
    Okay, so the other fees (doc, license, title) total $385. If you look at my post #403 you'll see the following item...

    Dealer Fees......... 451.69 (inclu doc fees- taxable)

    This indicates that 451.69 - 385 = 66.69 hasn't been accounted for... and so, we still have an unresolved issue.

    Also in that post, I indicated the following...

    I suggest that you ask the dealer for their LEASE WORKSHEET. This is a computer generated document and will tell us everything we need to know including the questions I've asked above. If they refuse, RUN; DON'T WALK! Otherwise, you can email it to me at

    diffeqzoominternet

    and I'll be happy to review for you if you wish.

    If you can't provide me with this worksheet, there really isn't anything else I can do because I would only be guessing and; that's the problem you encounter whenever you allow a dealer to "run the numbers" and "control the deal".

    For whatever it's worth, here's what I do...

    1st. I do research regarding residual factors, money factor (I always use the buy rate), learn applicable incentives, examine promo ads, and establish a competitive selling price using edmunds, KBB (Kelly Blue Book), and overstock at zag.com.

    2nd. I create a one-page lease proposal (samples attached) with all pertinent data including a description of the vehicle, MSRP, sell price, amounts capitalized (e.g., taxes, acq. fee, etc), cap reductions (e.g., trade, cash down, etc), money factor, residual factor, residual value, term, taxable payment, lease payment, amounts due up front (itemized), contract provisions (gap insurance, excess mileage charge, applicable disposition/purchase option fees).

    3rd. I Fax/email the proposal to the dealer and negotiate via phone/email from the comfort of my home/office with my laptop excel spreadsheet (actually Mathematica) lease program fired up and ready to rumble! The only thing I'm likely to negotiate is the sell price and that only requires a few keystrokes on my laptop. And, bing bang, boom I'm done!

    The key (no pun intended) is that you must control the deal. Never ever allow a dealer to control the deal by allowing them to ":run the numbers". Trying to figure out the dealer's numbers is often a pointless exercise and, frankly, a waste of time. These people often lie or simply don't know what the they're talking about. Allowing the dealer to control will only end up costing you money in most instances. A one-page lease proposal speaks volumes about you... it sends the message that you know what you're talking about and you know and understand leasing. That quickly serves notice to the dealer, and so; they're not at all inclined to play games. This suggests that the biggest advantage of a lease proposal is that it saves time, money, and aggravation.

    John
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