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Honda S2000 Lease Questions

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  • acceleratoraccelerator Posts: 136
    Awesome, thanks!
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    The dealer can't change the residual, it is fixed by the lease bank (either Honda or ALG) so I would bet you get the same for the 36 month lease as is stated in this thread and on the Honda web page. If you don't, then they are quoting you a non-Honda lease (which may not may not be better).

    Invoice less $2k is $29,604, so your price is $1,183.16 higher. If that is just the price for the car and destination, that is WAY too high.

    You need to know the amount due at signing and how that is broken down. If $470 a month is "sign and drive" it is a lot better deal than $4k down with that payment.

    Dennis
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    My boss got sick of the break downs and high gas costs of his Ford SUV so he sold it and got a new Accord I4.

    We talked about him buying a trailer for those Lowe's/HomeDepot trips but in the end he found a local place that rents pickups for $20 or so a day. So if he needs something that is too big to fit, he just rents a truck and goes and gets it. No trailer to store, no 2nd (or 3rd) vehicle to buy and insure, but the extra hassle of having to go do the rent. He is happy with the arrangement, though.

    Your insurance mention reminds me, the S2000 is about 14% more for ME to insure than the RX-8. They used to be nearly the same cost, so I think the difference is the fact that the resale value of the 8 has eroded more. Also, as used S2000s get more plentiful and cheaper to buy, more "kids" can get into them and that means more claims. More claims means higher rates for all.

    Dennis
  • Here are the residual and money factors:

    36 month lease: 58% residual, MF .00290
    48 month lease: 50% residual, MF .00270

    The monthly payments for the 36/48 month lease is with 0 down, sign and drive. He told me there wasnt any more room to play with, at least thats what he said, maybe if I'm at the dealership, that could change.

    Still high? Should I check with another dealer or two? What do you think of the 48 month lease? Its about 40.00 a month less :)
  • 23109vc23109vc Posts: 218
    Dennis-

    i think the loaded up 8s are selling at or near $27-29k...
    I have found loaded 06s..some have the special edition"shinka" 06...still on lots for 7-8k off MSRP...so mabye 26k for a car that had an msrp of 32-33k....

    if i were to sell my sedanbeater or trade it and net roughly $5k...and RX8 for 26-5k would mean i'm only actually taking on another 20-21k in debt...not bad for a much more fun car.

    the reliability of the 8 is a worry. i have heard a lot of stories about problems...and i assume the S2000 would be bullet proof by comparison...

    i think if i am looknig for a car that can fit the bill of daily driver, be fun to zip around in, and still have *some* degree of practicality - the 8 would be a great choice.

    for pure fun..with NO considerations of practicality the S would be better.

    Dennis - in terms of pure acceleration...like if you nail it away from a light and get the revs up...way up...and rip through the gears..do you feel that either the 8 or S is clearly "faster" or feels more powerful than the other..or do yout hink ti's a toss up?

    i test drove an 8 and i felt it was "quick" but not fast. no torque..it revved nie...but the real selling point was on the twisty set of roads the salesguy took me on..the thing just carved through turns with ease..it was one of those cars that you "connect" wtih the road in...and it was a blast to drive. i've driven high hp cars that jam you in the seat... i used to have a mega hp sports sedan (think Audi S4 type car)....and the 8 was TEN times more "fun" to drive..way less snap if you hammered it from a stop or from a roll...but if i just focused on how much "fun" i was having, the 8 won. i imagine an S2000 would be the same, only wtih the top down.whicho nt he rigth day is all that much MORE fun...

    in terms of speed, hadnling, and drviing enjoyment... is the 8 or S better by much? if i got one new..it would be under warranty so any issues would get fixed on their dime... so just assume either was trouble free...

    for cruising around, revving the stink out o fit... taking corners fast and blasting on twisty back roads... (aside from teh top down element)....do you think the 8 or S is a ton more capable than the other or do you think they are neck and neck in terms of acceleration, cornering ability, shifter feel, and that "connectedness" feeling you get forma truly great handling fun sports car??
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    The MF sounds too high, when I worked it backwards I got 0.00280. What it could be is they added the 0.001 for the "no security deposit" option and that is where they got that number. The dealer has no room on the rate (except to mark it up) and no room on the residual, but do have on the price of the car.

    36 months is the sweet spot in most any lease deal, long enough to defer the initial loss of value but short enough to still be under full warranty the entire lease term.

    If you plug 0.00290 and invoice less $2,000 + $595 (lease acq fee) into the lease calc it solves to $423.66 per month + tax with $423.66 + tax due at signing.

    A sign and drive is a little harder to figure to the penny, so what I do is multiply the normal payment by the term then divide by 1 less than the term:

    $423.66 * 36 = $15251.76 / 35 = $435.77 + tax.

    They are quoting you $470 per month plus tax, so they are way off what would be the best price. Around $1,100 too high. I would get them to lower the price on the car, that is the only way to make the deal better.

    I leased my 05 at invoice (not under, like they offer now) but due to the better money factor my payment is $100 or more less than the one they quoted you INCLUDING 7% sales tax and I did first month due at signing, IIRC.

    Dennis
  • Dennis,

    Thanks for the info. I will have to go to the dealership next week, and tell them they need to lower the price of the car. $470 per month plus tax would put it at 504.78 for 36 months, and theres no way I'm paying that.
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    The Shinka is in the ugly (to me) black cherry paint, or that would be the one to get. A factory loaded up car always retains more value than an optioned up car. When you check used value most places will ask Shinka or normal 8, then when you pick normal 8 it will let you add options. Everyone knows the options don't count for much - and you lose a lot more of the option value than you do car value. But I don't like the Shinka color outside, so it was not for me.

    If you want a red-light burner neither car is right for you, I would probably get a Mustang GT for that. Lots of red light speed and gobs of torque - just decent handling compared to the other 2 cars. You can get a v-8 GT premium coupe for just over $25k and a v-8 GT premium convertible for under $30k. More room than the S and "easier" to drive as well. Probably better reliability and resale than the 8 as well.

    When they do 0-60 times in the magazines they really abuse some of the cars. For sure those with weak torque like the S and 8. They rev to 7k or something and side-step the clutch. They get 0-60 numbers that rival 'vette numbers but this is NOT how you are I would treat out own car (while we could get close to magazine 'vette or 'stang numbers).

    The S is just more fun, but I only drive mine when I can put the top down. Both are true great handling sports cars, neither is a drag racer - the curves are where both shine.

    One of our customers was here for a meeting and saw my 8 in the parking lot so asked who owned it - as she was thinking of buying one. I talked to her about the pros and cons and mentioned she should look at the S2000. It was nice the next day so I drove that in, at lunch we went for a drive. Once she got behind the wheel and v-tec'd the motor and wound it up the smile would not leave her face :D . She had test driven the 8 before, but never driven the S. Maybe not as practical, but a lot more fun (to me and to her, I guess).

    Most folks drive 12k-15k per year. Premium here yesterday was around $2.80 per gallon. If I drove that much in the 8 commuting it would cost me $2,240 to $2,800 in gas for a year (assuming it gets no higher). The same miles in the S would be $1,460 to $1,826. Say you have it 5 years, the extra $780 in gas would end up at $3,900 over that time. That, is a lot of money.

    Like I said, find a nice used example of each and score some drive drives and see what you think. You have to live with and pay for whatever you choose, not me :D

    Dennis
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    Try other dealers too, my local dealers just will not deal on S2000s and usually will not honor the "lease special" on the Honda page (which is not that good of a deal) so I have to go out of town/state to get a good price. You might post where you live both here and in the S2000 price paid forum and see if someone can recommend a dealer to you that offers lower prices w/o a haggle and hassle ordeal.

    Dennis
  • Sounds good, I just got off the phone with another dealer and they can beat the deal I mentioned but only by about 10.00 a month. I mentioned to him the invoice - 2k + 595.00 at $423.66 per month + tax with 1st months payment at signing, and he couldnt believe it. He said if you can get that deal anywhere go get it.

    Anyway, I live in Colorado Springs, CO so if anyone can recommend a good dealership in or around Colorado, let me know, thanks...

    Thanks for the info Dennis.
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    You should break it into parts (in case my numbers are wrong).

    Deal the price down on the car, invoice less $2k or close to it. Then plug in the lease and see what that works out to. Compare that with leasecompare numbers for the same car and choose the one that works out the best.

    I heard back from one of my dealers and they will do $29,593 or $29,783 for the car with destination and dealer fee for me. The variance is due to a Honda price increase, some on their lot are invoiced higher and some lower. No where close to you, I am afraid. I probably can't get enough out of my 05 to do the upgrade at this point - but I am thinking on it :D

    It probably will not be warm enough for top down driving there for another month or two anyway :D - so you might wait to see if they have a better LEASE deal. Then you don't have to try to hammer the dealers down so low on price.

    Keep in mind they make 3% of full MSRP as holdback, which on a $34.5k car is $1,035. So they could sell you a car near or at invoice less the $2,000 and still make a nice profit. It is possible some dealers have not heard about the $2k dealer money - it is not on Edmunds and was "just" announced I am told.
  • acceleratoraccelerator Posts: 136
    Is there a Honda dealer over in Motor City (Manitou Springs area)? I test drove an Acura Integra GS-R a few years back from the Acura dealership. During our test drive, he directed me to some of the mountain roads... What a blast. I can't imagine how much fun that would be in an S. I don't live in Black Forest anymore but I sure do miss it.
  • Yea we have some sweet mountain roads out here. Theres only one dealer in the Colorado Springs/Manitou area. So far I've talked to the Springs and Pueblo dealers, may have to try Denver area or like Dennis said, wait it out and see if theres something better in a couple months.

    Accelerator, where do you live now?
  • acceleratoraccelerator Posts: 136
    What is IIRC as you mentioned here:


    I leased my 05 at invoice (not under, like they offer now) but due to the better money factor my payment is $100 or more less than the one they quoted you INCLUDING 7% sales tax and I did first month due at signing, IIRC.
  • acceleratoraccelerator Posts: 136
    I'm in the Houston, TX area... boring, flat, smelly, did I mention flat? :sick:

    I too, think I am going to wait it out a little longer (I'm also a little upside down on my current car so I really need to be patient. :(
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    IIRC = If I remember correctly

    I don't have me lease contract and paperwork handy, but if I do remember right I only paid first month at signing, but may have done a sign a drive (since the rate was so low). With the much lower MF back then, even paying invoice for the car (compared to invoice - $2000) it ends up being cheaper than the current "deal".

    That said, getting the car so cheap even with a OK lease deal is not a bad deal - and you could always finance rather than lease.

    Only Honda knows what the future holds in deals, and they may not know since they will wait and see how the warmer weather or spring and the $2k dealer incentive improve sales. If they don't pick up, then you may see a cheap lease deal down the road.

    One thing to keep in mind - if they entice you to buy the car or 3rd party lease the car then they don't have to sell it again if you return it. If they have to make a cheap lease deal to move the cars, then they get a lot of them back in 3yrs and have to figure out how to sell them again. With the inflated residuals they use for the lease, they would likely have to discount them (or CPO them) to sell them. With the Accord cheap leases, no big deal since they retain value well and there is a STRONG used Accord market. The S2000 market is a lot smaller, not that it is not a great car, just not what a lot of folks want for the money.

    Dennis
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    In Texas the top down season comes early - and takes a break during the summer, doesn't it :D ? I can stand about 55 degrees with the top down, windows up, heat on and into the 90's top down, windows down, maybe A/C on. When it gets much colder or hotter I put the top up (or drive another car).

    Dennis
  • For all the people on here like myself that were waiting for a lease special, I have to agree with Dennis that the current lease ( I wont call it a special because its not) is not a good deal, and I have decided to wait it out some more. Whats interesting is if you look on Honda's website under current offers, you will see the other leases are called "special lease" while the S2000 lease offer is called "standard lease". That speaks volumes, I will wait for a "special lease" like they have had in the past and hope it comes around sometime this year. So for now, I'll continue to enjoy my '06 TL w/Navi. :)
  • acceleratoraccelerator Posts: 136
    I am so on the fence. I see the colors I want disappearing from the dealership lots so I'm nervous about waiting. :( On Magic 8 Ball, what do you see in my future? :)

    Magic 8 Ball's Response: "Ask Again Later"
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    It can be a tough call, but I would say be ready to go if (or when) the deal comes out - be the first one make a deal and get a deposit down on the color you want. This is supposed to be the last model year for the S, so I would assume production will end in the next few months and dealers will be getting in the last they will get in the weeks after that.

    If I had to choose between not having an S2000 and paying the normal lease price, I guess I would pay up. While there is still a chance they will offer a sweeter deal, I would wait. Note: easy for me to say as I have an S2000 to drive :D

    Dennis
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