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Honda S2000 Lease Questions

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Posts: 38,518
    Hi 23109vc. Honda is still not providing any special lease money factors on the S2000. The reason why it started advertising a lease on this car is in April it introduced $2,000 dealer cash on it. You can use this cash to help you negotiate an attractive capitalized cost for your lease, but you will still have to use Honda Finance's standard lease money factors to calculate your monthly payment. The specific money factor that was used to calculate the advertised payment that you are referring to is .00280. This factor is for consumers who qualify for its "Super Preferred" credit tier.

    Car_man
    Host
    Prices Paid Forum
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Posts: 38,518
    23109vc, if consumers were able to negotiate selling prices of around dealer invoice prior to the introduction of the $2,000 dealer cash, there's a good chance that you will be able to get this car for close to $2,000 under invoice now.

    Car_man
    Host
    Prices Paid Forum
  • tonyr313tonyr313 Posts: 13
    got a dealer to $5000 out of pocket at signing and $320/month for 36 months with 12k miles/year. all costs, tax, etc included in this. good or bad deal?
  • acceleratoraccelerator Posts: 136
    Hey Dennis, I finally got my palm desktop software installed (Palm's site has broken links) and got Lease-It installed!

    I can't get over how easy the software is to use! I punched in the numbers into my Palm and compared that to LeaseCompare and it is a match so I now have confidence with the application. I'm still foggy on how you were able to help some of the other people posting their lease rates by working backwards, but maybe that will come to me once I've worked with the program a little bit.

    Again, thanks for the link and tool... this will be the best $10 I've spent.
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    I love LeaseIt! as well - a super deal for $10. I love how you can store a number of deals and switch between them - and change from residual percent to dollars or MF to interest rate.

    Keep in mind on the LeaseCompare numbers they have rolled the lease fee into the deal so all that is due is first month. You have to add that to the cap cost you enter to make the payment work out - but you are not required to roll the fee in when/if you actually did a lease with them.

    With the tools I have, I just use trial and error to work the numbers backwards. If you take the "deal" on the Honda web page it shows the net cap and residual, you know the term is 36 months. There can only be 1 MF that makes the payment they show - I worked it backwards for 0.00280 and the car_man confirmed it (from the lease offer sheet from Honda). So you just plug in what you know and guess at the MF, payment too high means MF too high, change and retry, etc.

    Now you are all set - you just need for Honda to offer that cheap rate again :D

    Dennis
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    These numbers are:

    April 07, April 06, % change, YTD 07, YTD 06, % change.

    S2000 533 645 -10.5% 1,378 1,987 -30.6%

    Even with the $2k dealer money they only moved 533 cars last month, down 10.5% from last year. YTD is even worse, down nearly 31%.

    Either more dealer money, cheap financing/lease, or both may be coming this month?????

    Dennis
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    Link to lease deal

    Not what I had hoped for/expected:

    2007 S2000 Featured Standard Lease
    $349.00 per month for 36 months. $4,309.00 total due at signing. Offer Details

    FEATURED LEASE: Closed-end lease for 2007 S2000 Manual Transmission (Model AP2147ENW) for $349.00 per month for 36 months with a $3,365.00 capitalized cost reduction available to customers who qualify for the AHFC Super Preferred credit tier. Other rates/tiers are available under this offer. $4,309.00 total due at lease signing (includes first month's payment, AHFC upfront acquisition fee, capitalized cost reduction, security deposit. Security deposit waived in featured lease example. Total net capitalized cost and base monthly payment does not include tax, license, title, registration, documentation fees, options, insurance and the like). Security deposit waived in lease example. Not all buyers may qualify.

    Subject to limited availability. Through 05/31/2007, to approved lessees by American Honda Finance Corp. Closed end lease for 2007 S2000 Manual Transmission vehicles (Model AP2147ENW), for well qualified lessees. Not all lessees will qualify. Higher lease rates apply for lessees with lower credit ratings. MSRP $34,845.00 (includes destination) less the suggested dealer contribution resulting in actual net capitalized cost $27,560.36. Dealer contribution may vary and could affect actual lease payment. Taxes, license, title fees, options and insurance extra. Total monthly payments $12,564.00. Option to purchase at lease end $19,861.65. Lessee responsible for maintenance, excessive wear/tear and 15 cents/mi. over 12,000 miles/year for vehicles with MSRP less than $30,000, but for vehicles with MSRP of $30,000 or more, mileage cost is 20 cents/mi. over 12,000 miles/year. See dealer for complete details.


    This looks like a MF of 0.00285 or 6.84%, not a great deal.

    If you take the $4,309 down and take out the first month and acq fee you end up with $30,925.36 as the selling price VS an invoice of $31,604. I would think when you could get the car for $2,000 under invoice for a similar MF it would have been a better deal.

    Dennis
  • 23109vc23109vc Posts: 218
    last time i went to costco, they had an S2000 out front and the "costco"member price was $29k and change. i forgetit was it was closer to 30k...but it was 29500 or something like that...

    sot heir lease dealisn't even as good as what some dealers will sell it for to the costco people...

    if i were in the market for one i'd wait
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    If it was a 2007, invoice is $31,684 less the $2k dealer incentive = $29,684. The holdback is $1,045.35. So a dealer (through Costco or not) could sell you an S for $29,xxx and still come out OK. The Costco price probably would have a dealer "doc" fee added to the price shown, but that price is nothing a motivate Honda dealer could not do right not using the $2k in dealer money.

    I paid invoice for my 05 (no dealer money at the time) and if I were to get an 07 I would expect to pay invoice - $2k or just a little higher. In the old lease deals the money was under 2%, so even without the dealer money a lease at invoice was a great deal - a better deal than $2k under and 6.84% lease number.

    If I were buying, I would buy now at the right price. If I wanted a lease deal, I might wait another month to see if they sweeten the lease deal.

    Dennis
  • rujorujo Posts: 132
    Also posted this on the prices paid forum . . .

    Pricing info FYI: Received an unsolicited email today from a SF Bay Area dealer with this price.
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    You should follow up with and see what they say. They probably "forgot" to include destination charge ($595) and the dealer fee (anything from $50 to $500 depending on the dealer and local law).

    It could also be an 06 car, some dealers still have them on the lots.

    Dennis
  • rujorujo Posts: 132
    I've dealt with this dealer before . . . there's no "forgotten" destination charge or bogus document fees (doc fees are $45-$75).

    And no, it's not an 06.
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    You should go get it, then!

    Forward the e-mail to me and I will give them a call.

    Dennis
  • rujorujo Posts: 132
    (I'm not in the market for an S2000 - think it's a really exciting car - just leased an Acura TSX.)

    I've forwarded the dealer's email to you. I worked with Susie in late April on putting together an Accord lease deal for me - ended up with the Acura for a number of reasons. She's in the finance department - very professional and easy to work with. I highly recommend her to anyone in the SF Bay Area looking for a Honda.
  • 23109vc23109vc Posts: 218
    suppose you can get an S2000 for about $2000 under invoice - what would the lease payments be on 12k/year? ballpark? assume minimum drive offs
  • rujorujo Posts: 132
    Assuming a money factor of .00285 and a residual of $19,861 (numbers quoted in an earlier post) and, let's say, a selling price of $29,405 plus the acquisition fee of $595 for a nice round number of $30,000 for the cap cost . . .

    Monthly payment for a 36mo/12k lease would be about $424 plus tax. Upfront payment would include tags, title, dealer document fees and first month's payment.

    PS: If you could get the selling price to the $28,888 figure I was quoted from a SF Bay Area dealer earlier today - monthly payment would drop to about $408 plus tax.
  • acceleratoraccelerator Posts: 136
    Carman and others:

    I've read so much about leases that it has become cluttered in my head and I was hoping for a double check... Correct me if I am wrong.

    Part I
    -The first step is to negotiate selling price of car (doesn't matter if lease or purchase).
    -The MSRP to use in the calcualtion is AFTER dealer installed options.
    -Net capitalized cost to use is the invoice minus incentives. I'm trying to work the deal where I don't pay for the options and I pay the car's invoice minus $2000 creating a difference of around $7K.

    Part II
    I already know the residual values for the 2007 and the money factor; another dealer has a new Grand Prix White 2006, would the money factor and residual values change on the new 2006 being that we are now in 2007? If the values are different, would you mind posting what would they be (or would older postings still be relevant numbers to use?)? Seems to me a lease deal could be significantly better on the '06 than on an '07 given all things equal? :confuse:

    Thanks in advance...
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    Negotiate the price first. It COULD matter if it is lease or purchase, since some of the dealer incentives and in place of cheap money. The recent Accord cheap lease deal could not be combined with the $750 dealer incentive. So the dealer could give you a better purchase price than they could if you were doing the cheap lease. In the case of the current S2000 incentive, you get that lease or purchase - and the current lease rate is high.

    I don't know what accessories you want or need, but generally Honda will not let them include dealer added stuff to the MSRP as basis for the lease. On a lease, you are generally on your own for stuff you want the dealer to add. Over the Accord lease forum someone had a dealer make that mistake - they put all the high priced accessories on the car and added them to the MSRP to figure the lease. The lessee ended up with a very low payment - but I am afraid AHFC will not fund the lease or the dealer will have to eat the loss - or unwind the deal.

    Net cap should be close to invoice less the $2k incentive and maybe plus a dealer fee. I asked for a couple of quotes and got $30,260 and $30,503 for the car, destination, and dealer fee. This is from dealers that normally are really cheap on everything. Obviously your dealer may make you a better deal, and if I were serious about a new 07 S I might could hammer them a bit on price.

    A lease is based on the different between net cap cost and residual factored over time with interest. The 06 would make a WORSE lease car since you can get a new 07 for about $2k under invoice. Edmunds shows "up to $750" on left over 06 S2000s - but there is probably more than that. In any case, if they gave you the 06 for invoice - incentives - 100% of hold back it might be $1k - $1.5k cheaper than the 07. When you plug in future value, the 06 will worth a good bit less. If you check an 05 with 36k VS an 04 with 36k it looks to be $1,400 to $1,500 less. So if you start with a $1,000 savings and end up with a $1,500 less residual - and likely a higher money factory, you will pay more for the older car.

    Check at leasecompare.com and see what they would do with either car and I think you will find that most lease banks consider the car to be "used" once the next September hits - no matter if the car is really new or not.

    The best thing is to wait and hope for a cheap lease deal again. Failing that, make your best deal on price and compare the AHFC current rate (6.84%) VS what the dealer could get from a 3rd party bank VS leasecompare.com and take the one that is the best deal.

    Dennis
  • acceleratoraccelerator Posts: 136
    I guess I should make sure they know I'm wanting to lease the '06. The accessories nice but I wouldn't pay extra for them (things like the spoiler, lip kit, etc).

    Leasecompare doesn't show 2006 as an option anymore. :( I just emailed them a few minutes ago. I'll post once they reply.
  • Hi All,
    I am dreaming of this car since the concept was introduced in the late 90s. I am finally getting close to be able to afford one this year. :)
    Driving home today (LA) -I always pass a HOnda dealer- and saw 3 brand new dark silver s2k's in the showroom. I had to stop and, how it is, numbers got crunched.
    I have 2 questions for this very informed and knowlegable forum:
    1.I was told that my 719 Fico, first time buyer and short credit history (am only 4 years in the states)would not qulify for the AHFC super preffered credit. (I didnt allow them to actually pull my credit, I just pulled it 2 days ago). Further they told me that it would not matter whether I wait for a lease special to come out or lease one now, since I would only qualify for preferred credit. Lower credits would not be benefit of a lease special. Is this true?

    2.The best deal they gave me today (alt.Bank)was: 48mo/12k, $3000 drive off, $433/mo (incl.tax). What do you guys think? If its true the special wont do anything for me this seems not to be too bad of a deal.

    I would really appreciate your vast knowledge on this.
    I am waiting to the day to sit behind this beauty for over 7yrs...but every dollar less would make it easier to pay off student loans AND to drive the sweetest car there is :P

    Thank you in advance!
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