Infiniti G37 Lease Questions

helices

Thank you.

How do I learn to run the numbers myself?

What are the required parameters?

Residual? Interest rate? Invoice?

What do I need to know? What need I do with that information, so that I am best prepared to negotiate the best possible deal?

Thank you.

brian62

So, is Gap insurance included with the standard IFS lease?

It was on my Nissan lease 3 years ago. It states...
Section 26 - Damage, Loss or Potential Loss of This Vehicle...
If this Vehicle is stolen (and not recovered) or destroyed, we will accept insurance loss proceeds in full satisfaction of your early termination liability if you are in compliance with the lease terms...

It goes on to say that if the insurance loss proceeds exceed your early termination obligations, then the excess will NOT be refunded to you.

dwynne

AFAIK, GAP is included with all IFS leases.

When I get some time, I will look at my contract but I think it has language similar to what you quoted.

Dennis

raphster

any recommendations for an infiniti dealer in the NY tristate area? :confuse:
looking to lease a g37

Thanks

kyfdx

My point is simple, just because you don't have a secrurity deposit in place doesn't mean you cant be sued or are off the hook for what you owe.

If that is your point, then no one was arguing with you..

My points were:

1) Your insurance company is going to pay fair market value if you total the car. On a lease, with nothing down, this is likely to be far less than the balance owed to the leasing company. Not possibly... likely..

2) GAP insurance is only going to pay the leasing company what they say is the shortage. If you and the leasing company disagree, hopefully you have an attorney on retainer.

3) If the leasing company chooses to use your MSDs to lower the payoff of the lease, before applying GAP, see #2 about needing an attorney.

Is it supposed to work that way? Of course not. But, we've already had ancedotal evidence of that very thing. In the meantime, they have your money, and you don't.

regards,
kyfdx

dwynne

I pulled out my IFS contract and it says the same as your Nissan lease:

"we will accept insurance loss proceeds in full satisfaction of your early lease termination liability" as long as your lease is paid up, etc, etc.

Dennis

kyfdx

I guess that means that all IFS leases include GAP?

brodway

My lease is going back in less than 4 weeks and i had put up 8 MSD's when leasing a G35X in 2005. I will let you know if i get it back and what difficulties are associated wtih such transaction. I know that IFS send me a letter last month saying they will waive the first $500 in extra wear and tear on the vehicle if i lease another Infiniti and that i'm already preapproved for a new lease at X dollars.

dwynne

Yes and NMAC leases as well. I would (like always) advise folks to read the back of the lease contract before signing and for sure before being suckered into buying GAP coverage at extra cost.

This does not mean you get MSDs back or that you don't .

Dennis

kyfdx

Yeah... I don't really think MSDs are "at risk" in any kind of normal situation.. As noted before, you owe what you owe, regardless of security deposit...

The "total your car" scenario worries me a bit, though...

From a strictly financial point of view, MSDs are a great deal..

dwynne

Two things of note from my IFS lease contract:

Damage, Loss or Potential Loss of This Vehicle
You are responsible for the risk of loss, damage or destruction of this Vehicle during the lease term and until you return this Vehicle to us as required above. If this Vehicle is damaged or destroyed in an accident or other occurrence or confiscated by any governmental authority or is stolen, abandoned or subjected to potential loss, you will immediately notify us and we may terminate this Lease pursuant to the terms of this Lease. If this Vehicle is stolen (and not recovered) or destroyed, we will accept insurance loss proceeds in full satisfaction of your early termination liability if you are in compliance with the following: 1) your insurance obligations under this Lease are satisfied; 2) your policy covers the casualty and you have paid the deductible required by the policy; and 3) your Lease is not in default. If the insurance loss proceeds exceed your early termination obligations, then the excess will not be refunded to you. Any capitalized cost reduction made by you will not be refunded in the event of a total loss. If you owe any past due payments or other amounts under this Lease, we may use your security deposit to offset such amounts.

and this part:

Security Deposit
We may use the security deposit to offset any amounts that you owe under this Lease. If you perform all of your obligations under this Lease, the security deposit will be returned to you at the end of the lease term. No interest, increase or profits will accrue or be due to you. We have no duty to segregate the security deposit and do not have a fiduciary duty to you in regards to the security deposit.

The key phases to me are "if you perform all of your obligations" and "returned to you at the end of the lease term". Clearly, if your car it stolen or totalled you will not be able to perform your obligations (return the car is proper shape) and it will not be at the end of the lease term. They also say if they are overpaid for the car, then too bad for you.

So even reading the contract it is clear as mud, so (again) unless you get it in writing from IFS what happens to the MSDs in the even of a total loss then I would not use that option.

Dennis

mpgxsvcd

Just got an 08 Journey G35 Sedan with Premium, Sport, NAVI, and Tech packages. .0015 MF, 36 months, 12K miles per year, Zero Down, initial selling price $600 over invoice, 61% residual - $532 per month.

That payment was a little high because I rolled two payments from my 05 G35 lease into the new lease. I learned my lesson this time. I got 12K miles per year(I was 16K under my allotment last time) and I did 36 months instead of 39 months this time.

dcdubya

I am about to lease an 08 G35 w/premium & sport package through the VPP plan.
The dealer is offering the car for $33800 and I am putting $2100 down (I know not to but the wife wants payments below $400). To make a long story short payments will be $381/mo. for 36/mo.
The problem is that the initial price was $32708 and payments were $369/mo.
The salesman's contention is the price of the car went up once he discovered it has some dealer add ons (pinstriping and wheel locks, neither of which I care for).
The deal is awful tempting my wife is trying to draw a hardline but I haven't seen any pricing this low.
Any thoughts?

dwynne

How much is the dealer's doc or prep fee?

By the VPP "rules" the dealer has to sell you the car at the VPP price and show you that on the invoice - but they can also charge you their normal doc or prep fees and can charge you for any dealer installed options.

My advice would be to tell them you are not paying for the dealer add ons - do the deal for $369 as stated (actually ease off on the money down at let the payment rise to $399). For sure if they are charging you a doc fee on top of the VPP.

Find a dealer that has little or no doc fee and no dealer add ons and you can save yourself some money.

Hold the phone, I just checked the invoice price (current). On an 08 G35 journey with sport pack and premium pack and nothing else the invoice is $34,418 including destination or $33,653 without it. No way on VPP plan C or D could they do the car for $32,708. VPP C or D price would be $33,925.17 w/o dest and $34,690.17 with it. This is with the latest prices and $765 dest, and older production car may have a lower MSRP and the $715 destination charge.

So $33,800 for plan C or D for a pre price increase car should be about right. Just ask to see the invoice - it has the VPP pricing right on it.

Anyway, if the doc fee is not too high then the price should OK the way I figured it.

I would still ease off on the money down and let the price rise to $399.99 . You will have less money in the car and your wife will still be happy.

Dennis

brooklynite

I'm thinking of going for the G35x, features are not too important at this point. I have a finance that I would like to liquidate in the deal but I'm about $6000 in negative equity according to initial numbers. What would be my best approach given the circumstances.

helices

Infiniti of Lisle gave me three (3) sets of numbers for G35XS, sport, nav, premium packages:

Invoice -- will NOT say

24 months
Sales Price $37995
Residual 71%
Money Factor 1.310
Monthly $619.93

36 months
Sales Price $37995
Residual 61%
Money Factor 1.720
Monthly $579.47

39 months
Sales Price $37995
Residual 60%
Money Factor 1.720
Monthly $553.47

This includes 8.0% Cook County sales tax.

Check at signing is:

1st month
+ $175 doc fee
+ $143 plates

OK, remember that I am a newbie with this.

What do you all make of these numbers?

Best Regards,

helices

epaiuk

Just leased a new G37 Coupe Journey with Premium and Nav, 24 months, 12k miles/ yr, $3000 down, all maintenance included, $385 + tax / month.
Very happy, very nice car, and buying through the internet process was quite smooth...

brodway

The key phases to me are "if you perform all of your obligations" and "returned to you at the end of the lease term". Clearly, if your car it stolen or totalled you will not be able to perform your obligations (return the car is proper shape) and it will not be at the end of the lease term.

Dennis, i'm not sure if by satisfying the payoff you are still in default of the lease obligation. I will have to call IFS and get more information.

mpgxsvcd

I think I just found a mistake in my lease. It seems that the dealership used 59% as the residual for 3 years on my G35 with 12,000 miles per year. Isn't the residual currently 60% for 12K and 36 months? Or is it supposed to be 61%?

How long do you have to cancel a lease in North Carolina. I don't really want to return the car but I will fight for that 1%. He told me he was calculating the residual based on 60% and then he used 59% which I am sure IFS would not be happy to hear about! That number is supposed to be set by them.

dwynne

There is no "Right Of Rescission" on a car lease - you signed the papers it is yours.

That said, the dealer can't change the residual. It is set by the lease bank and the lease will not fund if they put in the wrong amount. So if they told you 60% and the number is really 59% then you are stuck as long as they used 59% on the paperwork. If they made a mistake then the lease will not fund with IFS and the dealer will be contacting you to come back in a sign a corrected lease contract.

What could have happened: Your lease contract and residual is based on the car you picked out. Due to price increases this could make it appear the wrong residual was used. Use the MSRP on the window sticker of the car and see how that compares to the residual. Say the current MSRP is $38,000 so you expected to see $22,800 as the residual. You see $22,420 as the residual and think they figured wrong, but that could be 60% of a lower sticker ($37,367).

They could also allowed 15k miles per year rather than 12k, but that would also be listed on the lease.

Dennis

mpgxsvcd

I believe some states give you 3 days to return a lease. I am not sure if NC is one of them. The paperwork shows that they calculated everything based on 59% and 12K miles. However, he showed me an IFS document that said 15K was 59% and 12K was +1 %. He then convieniently forgot to add the +1 on the paperwork. I am sure they will straighten it out. It is only $10 a month but it is the principal of the thing.

I will call my sales guy tomorrow and ask him what the IFS paper said. If it says 58 + 1 instead of 59 + 1 then I won't complain. If it says 59% + 1 for 12K then I will insist on resigning the lease with the correct residual and no other changes.

My sales guy was good so I am sure they will not want to piss me off. I bet they will correct it without a hassle. However, I still would like to know what the exact residual is supposed to be on 12K 36 months for May. Does anyone know it off hand?

dwynne

There is no 3 day return in any state that I am aware of. That only applies to refinancing a house.

I posted the numbers earlier this month and it was 59% for a 15k 36 month lease on a journey so your residual should be 60%.

As I said, IFS will not fund it if the numbers are not right so I am sure it was just an honest mistake.

Dennis

ez061825

Hello all, what a detailed forum. May I ask for your comments and suggestions on where I should end up on this deal.

I was offered a lease today on a blue slate G35 Journey with premium and Nav packages on the following terms:

$3900 down; $406.14 a month.

Cap Cost: $35,700
Bank Fee: $595.00
Total Cap Cost: $36,295
Tax on Credit: $229.38
License fees: $304.75
Other fee: $45.00
Cap reduction: $2,914.73
Net Cap: $33,380.27
Residual: $26,133.75
Total depreciation: $7,246.52
Monthly depreciation: $301.94
Monthly rental: $74.99
Base payment: $376.93
Monthly tax: $29.21

What down/monthly should I end up at? This is my 1st lease and I would love to hear your thoughts. Thank you!

23109vc

these dealer add ons are scams for them to make money. they rape you on some of this stuff.

i leased an acura about a year ago and they wanted over a thousand bucks for "floor mats, wheel locks" and some other crap. i found out from another dealer that this stuff CAME with the car standard and the deales then try to claim they are add ons and just rape you for more money.

accessories like roof racks, running boards, pin striping, etc... they mark the stuff way up, charge you "labor" even though they instgall it in house at essentially no real cost..just the flunky that works in maintenance who is not busy at the time... whatever...

i leased a car that had a few add ons and they wanted a bunch of money for the stuff. i told themj i didn't want the stuff. they gave me BS about what the parts were worth, labor, blah blah. i basically looked up what the wholesale price of the parts was, and said i'd pay THAT. so i paid wholesale for a roofrack and runningboards on my MDX....i did NOT pay any labor or other BS. if they don't actually LOSE money on those parts...they may just throw it in...

in this market, they need to make a sale. don't get scammed by these add ons. if you like them, and are wiling to pay the actual wholesale of what they were "worth" to the dealer, fine. but i would not pay any markup or labor. it woudl be WAY to easy for you to just call a few more dealers, find the exact same car WITHOUT that crap and save the money.

brian62

I found a G35 from December with the lower MSRP. When negotiating, should I target to be $500 over (including the doc fee) on the old invoice price?

The invoice price difference is $417 when you include the increased destination charge.

dwynne

Yes, the dealer pays what is on the invoice at the time they got the car. If you find one you like that was delivered to the dealer before the price went up, then you can save a little money.

Dennis

brian62

G35 Journey with Premium Package and Trunk Cargo Net.

36 Months, 12k miles per year with $0 due at signing at $448.86 +tax per month.

MSRP 35,575
Edmunds Invoice 32,625
Residual Value 21,345

Sale Price of car 32,444
Title, License and Reg 560
Acquistion Fee 595
Doc Fee 399
AZ Tire Fee 5
First Payment 485
Gross Cap Cost 34,488

The car also included window tint, here in AZ this is a must and I would have paid another $200 to have it done.

brian62

How many price increases have their been?

Car 1 - G35 manufactured in Dec had the following:
Prem Pkg
Trunk Cargo Net
Splash Guards
MSRP of 35,475

Car 2 - G35 I just purchased, manufactured in Feb
Prem Pkg
Trunk Cargo Net
MSRP of 35,575 ($100 more then car 1 and no splash guards)

Both of the above had a destination of $715 and car 2 matches Edmunds invoice.

Cars.com and KBB have another price increase on the MSRP and Invoice. Destination is up to $765 and base price is up to $32,700 from my $32,300.

I didn't see any cars on the lot with a MSRP that matches cars or KBB but I wasn't looking very hard.

gforce11

It depends on what your doc fee is. Here in So Cal, our doc fee is $45. So shooting for $500 over invoice is kind of silly. Now if its like $400-$500 in your area, then definitely try to get it down as much as you can.

gforce11

Yes the prices on the new shipments are up. Invoice price is up around $400-$500 and destination is another $50 bucks. I believe these prices started last week. In terms of leasing, it shouldn't change your numbers much.

athens

Doesn't anyone buy their cars anymore? I bought my G35 new in 2003. Have 55K miles. To date has cost me $0.65 cents per mile. And I own the car.

The leasing customers, if not exercising the option to buy for high residual value, will have to sign a new lease, whether Infiniti or another marque. Over 6 years the per mile lease cost will be about $0.58 cents per mile. And they will still have ZERO equity in the good, unless they buy at the high residual value.

If I want to get out of the car (which I do not at present) I can likely obtain a return of $20K if I were to sell in today's market. That would drop the ownership cost of the car down to $0.27 per mile. That is about HALF what leasing for 72 mos. would cost (assuming costs to lease the new vehicle do not increase).

That is a net savings of $17,000! Which could earn you $6500 in bank interest, alone, in 60 months.

With the long warranty that Infiniti offers there is no compelling reason I can see to getting out of the car after 36 months.

sergeym

You need to compare apples to apples. In other words what is financially more beneficial to buy a car and trade it in 2-3 years or lease the same car for 2-3 years? The moment you change any of the terms your comparison becomes meaningless. It does not make much sense to say if I buy a car and drive it for 10 years it will cost me less that five 2-year leases. You may as well buy a Corolla. It would cost you much less.

gooddeal2

I highly doubt that you can get 20K on a '03 G w/ 55K miles. I think it's more like a 15-16K car at trade or 17-18K at retail, just my guess.

athens

You could buy a home, just as could lease that same home, provided the parties agreed to terms. There are advantages to either means of obtaining legal use and possession.

The comparison is absolutely valid. It concerns the same vehicle. The G35. It is not a comparison between a G35 and a Corolla.

If you lease, unless you exercise the option to purchase based upon the claimed residual value, which few people do because the terms are for a fixed rate that is anticipated three years in advance, you are going to be obligated to either buy or lease another car. (Except perhaps if you will be relying solely on public transport.)

My calculations are the purely the costs of ownership vs. leasing. After six continual years of leasing, assuming monthly lease payments will not change upon concluding the first lease and entering a second lease, the cost of rental possession is 2X that of ownership. A lessor is responsible for all wear and tear just as an owner. That is the basis of the comparison.

I'm not comparing the merits relative to someones ability to afford the purchase or the motorist's desire to be in a new model car every few years.

Solely cost.

My G35 is in pristine condition. Not modded. (Unlike 70 % of them). Not natty inside like most cars are after one year. Trade-in probably your right, not more than 15K. That is why is NEVER trade my cars in. When I went to trade my 1997 M3 at a BMW dealer in 2001 they offered 24K. I sold it private party for $30K and the current owner said it was far and away the best used car he saw out of 6 others. For about a year after buying the M3 from me he even called to tell me how great the car was on various road trips to the East Coast.

brian62

Athens, have you considered the cost of maintenance in years 4-6 vs. 1-3? In the case of a G35, I would guess that you are spending 3-4k in years 4-6 vs. 1-1.5k in years 1-3. Over a 6 year period you will spend 4-6k in maintenance on a single car vs. 2-3k in years 1-3 on two separate cars.

One other very important note. If your are in an accident which requires body repair, you just lost 10% of the value of YOUR car. If you lease the car, then the bank just lost 10% in value. I experienced this in the last car I purchased, because it was in an accident it could not be sold as certified or even sold at Carmax, you will be offered wholesale price as a trade or sell it yourself.

I would also disagree with your comment regarding leasing being 2x that of ownership.
I just leased a G35 for $485 a month (including tax) for 36 months. If I did the same again in 3 years, I will pay a total of $34,920 over the 6 years.
If I purchased the same car, at the same price (omitting the acquisition fee from the purchase) and paying tax on the full purchase price the total is $36,075, financing the car for 72 months at 4% interest (which I don't think you can get today) the total monthly payment is $564.39 for total payments of $40,636.
Payment wise, the purchase is $4,500 more expensive and you have at least $1,500 in additional maintenance for a total cost of $6,000. But in turn, you have a car which you own free and clear. You will likely be able to sell the car for more then $6,000 and that will be your savings of buying vs. leasing.

I also believe that insurance on a late model car is more expensive then a new car, this has been the case in the last 2 cars I have purchased.

Bottom line, some people Buy, some people Lease, some people buy new, some buy used. While leasing will cost you more (but certainly not double), some people get value for the extra expense.

ez061825

Is it true that a lease payment is easier to write off on your taxes than a purchase payment, especially if you own your own business? If so, this may be another reason to lease. What do you think?

brodway

Brian, very well articulated...I would also add that the equity that is left in the vehicle after 6 years is somewhat mitigated by the cost of capital that could have been invested in an alternative investment that would have yielded a return and then reinvested. When you also consider that the warranty runs out after 3-4 years, there is an additional cost of either purchasing bumper to bumper coverage or taking on a risky proposition that in the event a major part breaks down your savings in the purchase quickly begin to evaporate.

Overall, its a toss up. With the current lease rates and residuals being offered by IFS, i believe the way to go is leasing instead of buying. I've evaluated both options and really find the argument of saving on a purchase versus a lease in today's market lacking conviction.

sonofjay

Having owned a BMW for your years you are undoubtedly aware of the costs of cars, in particular once they are outside of their warranty. I take the opposite approach you did. I find cars are a very poor investments. My 2002 BMW 325XI is the reason I am now looking at a lease. When you learn all the names of all the service advisors at your local dealer and put $2k plus into the car every year then it becomes apparent that ownership its not always the best option when outside of warranty. Now, I agree what may be true for BMW may not be true for Infiniti. I know my 7 year old Honda I had before my 325xi was rock solid. But that's the risk of ownership. Maintenance and upkeep are about the same in the first 2-3 years for either option. The hope is that a car out of warranty, will run trouble free and not cost you any major repairs. Stay away from BMW if that is the case. Just my $0.02

sonofjay

Stupid question... is the first months payment required at lease signing? I see a lot of people do it and it is simply to reduce the cost for the next payments? Or in other words if you wait a month to make your first payment does it cost you more? It makes sense to me to pay the bank/doc/title upfront and finance the rest but I do not see why making a payment in advance is done. Is the idea to reduce the monthly payment (because of the saved finance charges on the early payment) or does not making a payment cost you more per month than say the lease calculators figured your payment should be per month.

I guess the question is if I do not include the first payment a signing does it raise my monthly payment?

Thanks -S

brodway

Brian. From my experience writing off vehicle usage, i have been advised by my tax professional that only a portion of the lease payment can be written off as a business expense. Although this seems to be a gray area as far as tax reporting is concerned, the right of way of reporting the vehicle expense is account for the % of usage ( personal/business ). Its hard to convince an auditer that you use the car 100% of the time for business. I also believe travel to work and back where the distance is less than 50 miles each way does not qualify as a travel expense. My opinion is that unless your tax return is flawed or blatantly fraudelent, you won't be audited if you write off your entire lease as a business expense.

As far as a purchase is concerned, the tax code specifies that the depreciation of the vehicle is the actual expense of usage. The depreciation value of the vehicle may vary in different years of the life of the vehicle.

brodway

Sonofjay...scary but you basically paraphrased my comments in a previous post.

brodway

Sonofijay..

Not a stupid question at all, because it had been something that was unclear to me in the past. When i put some thought into it i came to the realization that if you are leasing a vehicle for 36 months, you still have to make 36 payments regardless of whether you make a first payment the first day you pick up the car or a few weeks after. In essence the entire cost of the lease still remains the same no matter how you slice up the pie.

helices

Please, can somebody comment on the numbers in my previous post?

Infiniti of Lisle gave me three (3) sets of numbers for G35XS, sport, nav, premium packages:

Invoice -- will NOT say

24 months
Sales Price $37995
Residual 71%
Money Factor 1.310
Monthly $619.93

36 months
Sales Price $37995
Residual 61%
Money Factor 1.720
Monthly $579.47

39 months
Sales Price $37995
Residual 60%
Money Factor 1.720
Monthly $553.47

This includes 8.0% Cook County sales tax.

Check at signing is:

1st month
+ $175 doc fee
+ $143 plates

OK, remember that I am a newbie with this.

What do you all make of these numbers?

Best Regards,

helices

2confused2

What is the correct residual and money factor for the following:

12K/36 mos. G35 Journey
12K/36 mos G35X

Thanks.

nawas

I got offered 441 plus tax on a 2008 G 35 sedan journey with premium package only;
$1500 (which includes first months payment) down... W/ tax Im around $467..anyone, please give me some advice!!!, this is my first time leasing.

athens

Infiniti Warranty:

4 years/ 50K bumper to bumper
6/70K drivetrain

Need I say more.

Owners pay for wear and tear/ Lessee's pay for wear and tear.

You can only take a deduction for lease payment based on proportion of driving in the course of the business. That does not include driving commuting to work or pleasure driving. The IRS requires a log be maintained by the lessee for inspection.

Similarly the car owner can take a depreciation deduction for miles driven in the course of business.

I'm a trial lawyer who drives to various courthouses in a 60 mile radius from my office in Chicago. It accounts for about 60% of my total annual driving. My accountant states that for tax purposes there is no benefit for me to lease.

In response to Brian62:
6 yrs worth of lease payments divided by the maximum miles permitted (72K)=$0.48 per mile.

$40K purchase price financing - $20K (retail value after 6 years)/ 72K miles = $0.27
Infiniti NA is offering 1.9% financing for 36 months/ 3.9% for 60 mos!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your absolutely right. The $/mile cost of the lease is not 100% more expensive than for the purchase, its ONLY 78% more expensive.

Who spends $4-6K in maintenance on a car they bought new with the Infiniti warranty?

My Mom and Dad each had mid 1990 BMWs they bought new. He still drives his 5 series and she sold her 3 series last year to buy a new 3 series. They drove each of those cars for 13 years and did not spend more than $6K COMBINED in maintenance, including a rebuilt tranny for the 5 series last year.

I bought my car with 70% down, and financed at 3.9% in 2003 for 4 years. Just to keep my credit score high. A buyer who needs to finance more than 50% of a car purchase clearly is buying beyond their means.

Insurance premiums FALL as vehicles become older. This is because collision claim benefits for replacement in the event of the vehicle being totalled decline as the car ages and depreciates. For the duration of a lease or loan comprehensive coverage stays high because the insurance company is covering the value of the vehicle to the lessor/ lienholder, which is fixed.

Of course insurance premiums do increase for antiques or museum car based upon any increase in insured value.

It's highly unlikely that any G35/ G37 owner will ever face that situation.

2confused2

Is the G35 qualify for the $1000.00 conquest cash infiniti is offering?

sonofjay

Brodway. Great. I'll likely pay the fees upfront and pay the rest of the payments when due. Thank you for your reply and help! -S

sonofjay

Brodway. The more I read the more I have heard the same story, apparently the one we share. In particular when it comes to BMW's. In fact I read a article or blog by on the writers here on Edmunds saying that he would never own/lease a Germany car that wasn't under full manufactures warranty. When working properly, the BMW I have now is the best "feeling" and driving car I have ever been in. That includes my test driving in the G35x (albeit that is limited experience). But you can't go 2-3 months without some relatively expensive issue coming up and the hassle of dragging it into the dealer. In our area there was no guarantee on loaners and it was just a hassle all around to get the car repaired repeatedly. A former co-worker's experience as the same and he left for Lexus and couldn't be happier.

I am convinced that the 5 year included maintenance BMW offer on their new cars is a result of owner issues like this.

Anyway... I hope that my new G35x, when I get it, follows the same experience I've had with other Japanese manufacturers and it is reliably

brodway

A buyer who needs to finance more than 50% of a car purchase clearly is buying beyond their means

Thats an absolutely silly thing to say. I bought my wifes car with only 20% down, but could have afforded to buy it for cash. The finance rate was 1.9%. I think i can do much better than that in the financial markets.