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Mazda3 Lease Questions

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  • delta737hdelta737h Posts: 603
    aviboy97,

    Apparently, I had some outdated information. How long has Mazda been using Chase as their captive? Is this recent? Thanks for correcting me.

    John
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Mazda has been using Chase since October 2008. Mazda American Credit was a part of Ford Motor Credit. When Mazda purchased the majority of their shares back from Ford, Mazda American Credit was disbanded.

    Having Chase works out better for Mazda because Chase is a real bank, not a sub prime institution like Ford Credit, so, buying down rates to 0% and buying down leases don't cost them as much.
  • delta737hdelta737h Posts: 603
    Thanks for the info. That's almost two years ago and I should have known better. Thanks again!
  • Does anyone have any opinions/tips on the Mazda3 5-door Auto Lease Special? The details are below:

    MAZDA3 s Sport 5-door Automatic Transmission

    $209/Month, 36-Month Lease/36,000 miles, $1,803 due at Lease Signing. Includes 1st Month's Payment and Acquisition Fee. Excludes taxes, title and fees.

    To get this deal, the cap cost is $18386, which seems like a pretty good deal for a MSRP of $20485. I also have a $500 return customer credit. How does it factor in?

    Do you think I can get this deal with no money down, and have that $1803 spread out through the 36 month lease? Any tips or things to watch out for would be really helpful. I'm making my lease purchase on August 13th.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 31,090
    And, hey... I was just guessing, too! lol.. ;)

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • joeauto2010joeauto2010 Posts: 11
    edited August 2010
    These are some numbers I got from a dealer in Monrovia, CA with Zero Down.

    12k miles per year and 36 months. (Zero Down)
    MSRP $21,235.00 plus tax and license and fees
    Residual Amount $12,953.35
    Cap Cost $ 19,659.00 plus tax and license and fees
    Base Payment $246.24
    Total Payment Including Taxes $270.25

    The Cap Cost is what is throwing me off.

    When I calculated the payment with zero down, I got this

    What would have been upfront: $1803 - 209 (first months payment) = $1594/36 = $44.28
    Monthly before tax: $209
    Total before tax: $253.28

    The dealer still quoted me for a lower monthly than my math, even though the cap cost of the vehicle is higher (MazdaUSA.com said $18,368 + 750 (destination charge) = $19119). How does this make sense? Am I doing some math wrong?

    ps: Internet Advertised Deal
    MAZDA3 s Sport 5-door Automatic Transmission

    $209/Month, 36-Month Lease, $1,803 due at Lease Signing. Includes 1st Month's Payment and Acquisition Fee. Excludes taxes, title and fees.
    Hide Details

    MSRP $20,485 plus $750 destination charge. Lease payment based on capitalized cost of $18,386. Total payments of $7,524. No security deposit required. Dealer participation required. Tax, license, title, fees, options and insurance extra. Not all lessees will qualify for lowest payment through participating lender. Some payments higher, some lower based on residency and other factors. Lessee responsible for excess wear and mileage over 36,000 at $0.15/mile. Purchase option at lease end for $12,953 plus applicable tax. Take new retail delivery from dealer stock by 8/31/2010. Residency restrictions apply.
  • delta737hdelta737h Posts: 603
    edited August 2010
    joeauto2010,

    Unfortunately, the Mazda lease Ad is very vague. For example, it states that 1,803 is due at lease signing which includes 1st payment and Acq Fee. Well, 1803 less 209 gives 1,594. I doubt that 1,594 is the acq fee as this would be extremely excessive. Nothing is stated regarding down payment (i.e., cap reduction). The Ad also suggests that the residual factor is 61% and that the money factor is 0.00185.

    You made the following remarks...

    "The Cap Cost is what is throwing me off. When I calculated the payment with zero down, I got this

    What would have been upfront: $1803 - 209 (first months payment) = $1594/36 = $44.28
    Monthly before tax: $209
    Total before tax: $253.28"


    It appears that you're trying to fold the 1,594 into the 209 payment from the Ad. If so, this is what I get...

    P = 0.00185 x 1,594 + 1,594 / 36
    = 47.23

    208.89 (not 209) + 47.23

    = 256.12

    I'm sure you were just doing a quick calculation. Close enough!

    What your dealer did and what's in the Ad may be two different things; although, the resdial factor and money factor should be the same if you have excellent credit. Did your dealer include the 1,594 in the 19,659 cap cost? The problem is that we have no idea what the 1,594 represents. But, for purposes of discussion, let's pretend that this amount is the acq fee and that there is no cap reduction. Then, the Ad's cap cost of 18,386 would also represent the vehicle selling price. And so, the 18,386 does not include the acquisition fee. Instead, this fee is paid at lease signing as the Ad suggests.

    In order for your dealer to get a base payment of 246.24, assuming the money factor of 0.00185 and residual of 12,953.35 are both correct, the adjusted cap cost must be 19,646.82 not 19,659.00.

    Again, I have no idea whether or not your dealer included the acq fee (whatever that is $750???) or a dealer doc fee in the 19,659 cap cost.

    In a typical lease, here's how the numbers flow...

    MSRP
    Sell Price (aka Agreed Upon Value) (S)
    Amounts financed (A) (i.e., capitalized)
    Gross Cap (G)
    Cap Reductions (D) (cash, net trade-in allowance, etc)
    Adjusted Cap (C)
    Residual Factor
    Residual Value (R) (Res Factor x MSRP)
    Money Factor (F)
    Term (N)
    Monthly Payment (P)

    G = S + A
    C = G - D
    P = F x (C + R) + (C - R)/N

    The info the dealer gave you is vague and there is information missing (acq fee, DMV fees, dealer doc fees), itemization of the 1,803. So, here's what I suggest...

    Ask the dealer for their lease worksheet. Every dealer in the nation is familiar with this document as the fund provider requires them to be submitted along with the lease agreement. So, please, don't let them play dumb and tell you otherwise. This is a computer generated document that eliminates confusion and guess work and will tell you everything you need to know and then some. The beauty of this document is that it always tells the truth. Allowing the dealer to control the deal will only end up costing you more money in most instances.

    There is absolutely no reason for the dealer to refuse to give you a copy. If you like, you may email it to me at

    diffeq@zoominternet.net

    and I will be happy to analyze it for you. DO NOT let them read numbers to you over the phone as that's a pizz poor albeit sloppy way to do business. Tell them you want a hard copy of the lease worksheet.

    Once I have that, it will be a lot easier to answer your questions. Otherwise, I'm just guessing... my crystal ball was stolen.

    John
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Unfortunately, the Mazda lease Ad is very vague. For example, it states that 1,803 is due at lease signing which includes 1st payment and Acq Fee. Well, 1803 less 209 gives 1,594. I doubt that 1,594 is the acq fee as this would be extremely excessive. Nothing is stated regarding down payment (i.e., cap reduction). The Ad also suggests that the residual factor is 61% and that the money factor is 0.00185.

    Mazda is saying the $1,803 due at signing includes the acq fee, first months payment and cap cost reduction. Sales tax, dealer fees and registration are extra. The manufacturer does not have to itemize what the $1,803 consists of.
  • delta737hdelta737h Posts: 603
    edited August 2010
    "Mazda is saying the $1,803 due at signing includes the acq fee, first months payment and cap cost reduction. Sales tax, dealer fees and registration are extra. The manufacturer does not have to itemize what the $1,803 consists of."

    "Mazda is saying the $1,803 due at signing includes the acq fee, first months payment and cap cost reduction."

    "and cap cost reduction"???

    Really??? Where does it say this??? How would I, as a consumer reading this Ad, know that?

    I'm well aware that Mazda does not have to itemize the 1,803 in their Ads. However, it has been my experience that most national lease promo Ads do. Although possible and, perhaps, even likely, please tell me where the Ad explicitly states that the 1,803 includes a cap cost reduction? Please don't draw inferences or make assumptions. Here's the Ad...

    $209/Month, 36-Month Lease, $1,803 due at Lease Signing. Includes 1st Month's Payment and Acquisition Fee. Excludes taxes, title and fees.
    Hide Details

    MSRP $20,485 plus $750 destination charge. Lease payment based on capitalized cost of $18,386. Total payments of $7,524. No security deposit required. Dealer participation required. Tax, license, title, fees, options and insurance extra. Not all lessees will qualify for lowest payment through participating lender. Some payments higher, some lower based on residency and other factors. Lessee responsible for excess wear and mileage over 36,000 at $0.15/mile. Purchase option at lease end for $12,953 plus applicable tax. Take new retail delivery from dealer stock by 8/31/2010. Residency restrictions apply.


    John
  • Thanks soooo much for this info. After using the formula you gave me, it appears that the $19659 he gave me was the adjusted cap cost (I think). Does the adjusted cap cost include the destination fee, which is $750 in this case?

    The last time I got a lease, I worked my way from this number forward, instead of going backwards, like I'm doing now. That is what kind of confused me. The $19659 (if this is the adjusted cap cost) he quoted me was $278 under the dealer invoice according to edmunds.com, which seems decent, no?

    I asked for that lease worksheet and I'll get back to you. Thanks again. This is an amazing help.
  • One more thing...

    According to your forumla...if I were to get the dealer to match the cap costed stated in the advertisement $18,386, the adjusted cap cost would be $19136 with the $750 included, right?

    So plugging those numbers in, I got:

    P = F x (C + R) + (C - R)/N
    P = .00185 x (19136 + 12953.35) + (19136 - 12953.35)/36
    P = 171.74 + 59.56
    P = $231.30 plus tax

    does this ad up? or did I use the formula incorrectly?
  • delta737hdelta737h Posts: 603
    edited August 2010
    joeauto,

    The adjusted capcost has nothing to do with the MSRP. The destination charge is part of the MSRP and so, the adj cap couldn't care less what the destination charge is as one has nothing to do with the other. So, forget about the $750 destination charge. The only role that the MSRP plays, in leasing, is that it's used to determine the residual value.

    You always establish selling price first. And, from that point forward, everything else falls right into place. If you re-visit my post, you'll see the following equations...

    Gross Cap = Sell Price + Amounts Capitalitalized
    Adj Cap = Gross Cap - Cap Reductions (D)

    You should research Edmunds to determine the invoice price as well as all cash incentives available. Also, check overstock at zag.com to determine competitive low prices in your area. That will give you an idea of a good starting selling price to begin negotiations. Always start low. Remember, you can always come up but never down. Next, determine what items you want to pay upfront and those items that you want to capitalize in the lease. I don't advise making a down payment. Having done all that, the adj cap is real easy to deteremine.

    Your payment of 231.30 looks close. I got 231.11. Looking forward to receiving the lease worksheet, then we'll craft a one-page lease proposal.

    Best,

    John
  • bigbutrbigbutr Posts: 111
    Looking for residual and money factor information for a 24-month lease on the 2010 Mazdaspeed 3. Thinking about pulling the trigger on a red one they've had locally on their lot since at least February when I test drove it.
    Thanks!
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    edited August 2010
    I'm well aware that Mazda does not have to itemize the 1,803 in their Ads. However, it has been my experience that most national lease promo Ads do

    Usually they just say "$X,XXX due at signing, excludes taxes, dealer fees" I very rarely see one itemized on how the manufacturer came to whatever number they are advertising.

    Please don't draw inferences or make assumptions.

    What inferences am I making? Mazda is implying cap cost is part of the money down. They do not have to disclose it. My words may have implied that they are disclosing it, but, they are not, nor do they have to.

    I'm not quite sure what your issue is....
  • delta737hdelta737h Posts: 603
    edited August 2010
    aviboy,

    "What inferences am I making? Mazda is implying cap cost is part of the money down. They do not have to disclose it. My words may have implied that they are disclosing it, but, they are not, nor do they have to".

    "Mazda is implying cap cost is part of the money down"???

    This doesn't make any sense ("capcost is part of money down"??? What the heck does that mean?)

    From your post #623, you stated...

    "Mazda is saying the $1,803 due at signing includes the acq fee, first months payment and cap cost reduction. Sales tax, dealer fees and registration are extra. The manufacturer does not have to itemize what the $1,803 consists of."

    "Mazda is saying the $1,803 due at signing includes the acq fee, first months payment and cap cost reduction."

    "and cap cost reduction"???

    Really??? Where does it say this??? How would I, as a consumer reading this Ad, know that the $1,803 implies or suggests a capcost reduction??? I wouldn't! .

    That's my issue. To be candid, my forensic skills at dissecting lease promo ads are second to none.

    I can't understand how you can infer, imply or suggest that the $1803 captures a cap reduction as none was stated, inferred, suggested, or, otherwise, implied. I'm into semantics and linguistics big time. I'm not suggesting that you are, but, Americans are, generally, pizz poor communicators. In fact, many of them border on being downright illiterate. Just read some of the posts in these forums. Wow!

    John
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Really??? Where does it say this??? How would I, as a consumer reading this Ad, know that the $1,803 implies or suggests a capcost reduction??? I wouldn't!

    It doesn't, nor does the ad have to. That is my point.

    I am telling you the $1,803 includes cap cost. When you take out the acq fee of $595 and first months payment of $XXX, you are left with a balance. Where do you think that balance goes? Cap cost reduction...
  • delta737hdelta737h Posts: 603
    edited August 2010
    "It doesn't, nor does the ad have to. That is my point."

    You're absolutely right! ADS ARE NOT REQUIRED TO PROVIDE AN ITEMIZATION OF THE TOTAL AMOUNT DUE AT LEASE SIGNING. I never ever claimed that ADS are required to detail such disclosures. However, the FRBB's Reg M does require full disclosure in any consumer retail crafted lease agreement where the total cost of the lease is less than $25,000. The only items that are not required disclosures, under Reg M, is the money factor and residual factor.

    "I am telling you the $1,803 includes cap cost. When you take out the acq fee of $595 and first months payment of $XXX, you are left with a balance. Where do you think that balance goes? Cap cost reduction... "

    The $1,803 MAY include a cap cost reduction and, most likely, does. However, my point is that there is nothing IN THE AD to indicate that it does, in fact, include a cap cost reduction! But I do agree that the balance is, in all likelihood, a cap reduction as I can't imagine what else it could possibly be. And so, your conclusion is not unreasonable. But, I prefer not to make that assumption. Consumers would be well advised to ask a reputable and competent Mazda dealership for details as suggested in the Ad. :) Making assumptions often gets people into trouble. :sick:
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 31,090
    Seems like we have a mis-communication issue....

    Consumers would be well advised to ask a reputable and competent Mazda dealership for details

    aviboy97 is a reputable and competent Mazda dealer... I think he failed to point that out...

    regards,
    kyfdx

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • delta737hdelta737h Posts: 603
    edited August 2010
    kyfdx,

    "Seems like we have a mis-communication issue....aviboy97 is a reputable and competent Mazda dealer... "

    Whether aviboy is or isn't a reputable and competent Mazda dealer is not the issue. The issue is this...

    How would I, as a consumer, know that the $1,803 includes a cap reduction JUST BY READING THE AD ALONE? Fact is, I wouldn't know because there isn't any cap reduction indicated in the AD nor is there any requirement that the $1,803 be itemized or that a cap reduction must explicitly be disclosed. The AD, alone, does not explicitly indicate a cap reduction even though the $1,803 may, in fact, include a cap reduction.

    Regards,

    John
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 31,090
    Oh... a miscommunication on my part, then..

    I thought you wanted the answer...

    Ads are just ads.... they don't mean anything, actually... ;)

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • delta737hdelta737h Posts: 603
    edited August 2010
    kyfdx,

    To some extent, you're absolutely right! However, there is much useful information that can be gleaned from many, but not all, lease promo Ads such as the money factor buy rate , residual factor, residual value, acq fee, applicable lease end charges, term, etc.

    The advertised payments, cap reduction, amount due at lease signing, and net cap cost don't mean squat. Unfortunately, many people erroneously think that all the terms of the Ad are etched in stone and take them literally. Nothing couldn't be further from the truth.
  • joeauto2010joeauto2010 Posts: 11
    edited August 2010
    Hi,

    So these auto dealers are being stubborn about getting me a lease worksheet. It's not just one of them...but all of them are being stubborn and don't really address me request.

    I did visit a dealer and got these numbers:

    The net cost of the vehicle was $19,137 and he didn't really want to honor my full $500 Mazda credit for return customer. He gave me the numbers of $19,087 as the net cost of the vehicle for a 36 month/ 12k a year lease and insisted this was the lowest he could do.

    He seemed stubborn on the $500 Mazda credit, so that would make the vehicle $19,587 before the credit, right? This doesn't seem to be as good because I was expecting $18,637, but his $19087 for the overall net cost is the lowest I've gotten thus far. Do you have any thoughts on how this credit should have been factored in?

    At $19,087, the monthly was $228.95 before tax, and I ran that through the formula you gave me and that seemed to work out roughly. He said that $301 was due at signing for all the paper work, DMV fees and licensing.

    Also, does anyone know what the minimum insurance is for the lease? My first lease was 15/30/10 but this guy didn't seem to know the answer. Thanks for all your help!
  • delta737hdelta737h Posts: 603
    edited August 2010
    joeauto2010,

    Your mistake is that you're allowing the dealer to control the deal. You should create a one-page lease proposal. It will save lots of time, money, and aggravation. Email me at

    diffeq@zoominternet.net

    if you would like a few sample proposals.

    Regarding insurance, that should be specified in the lease agreement. Ask the F&I guy for a copy of a blank lease agreement. Don't ask a human being at the dealership because chances are they don't know.

    John
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    The net cost of the vehicle was $19,137 and he didn't really want to honor my full $500 Mazda credit for return customer. He gave me the numbers of $19,087 as the net cost of the vehicle for a 36 month/ 12k a year lease and insisted this was the lowest he could do.

    If by $500 Mazda credit, you mean the owner loyalty Mazda is offering, they cannot deny you of it. It is considered at rebate, and not taken off the actual selling price. I would ask to speak to a sales manager or general manager if they will not show you the lease breakdown.

    Also, does anyone know what the minimum insurance is for the lease?


    I believe Chase requires 100/300/100 for coverage.
  • Hi,

    I finally got my lease. Thanks delta737h and aviboy97 for all your help. Unfortunately, I couldn't get a lease breakdown in time but after reading over the sample proposals and all your infos, maybe I could have gotten a better deal, but I'm happy enough with what I got.

    My numbers were as follows (from what I see on the lease)

    Mazda3 5-door HB automatic s-sport (MSRP $21235)
    36 month/36 thousand miles
    The adjusted cap cost was $19013.16
    This included my first month, all my DMV fee's licensing etc etc, so I had a zero drive off.
    I then pay $250 after tax for 35 month.

    I think the paperwork said that the agreed apon price of the car was $19513.16, but there was a cap cost reduction around $1000 included in a total of $1850 due upfront, which the dealer marked as a cash rebate, so I still paid nothing on drive off.

    I can get the firm numbers for anyone that was to analyze this even more. Considering that I was crunched on time cuz my lease was ending, I feel I got a good deal.

    Thanks again for your help.

    -Joe
  • renny13renny13 Posts: 1
    I'm looking for August numbers on a Mazda 3s Sport for the following:

    Manual
    24/month
    12K/yr

    Any help is much appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Brian
  • Does anyone see it possible to get a mazda3 sport lease for $200 or less a month with $0 down? 36-42 months 12000 miles a year? The best offer I received so far was $218.
  • Hello Brian. Here's the latest info for you.

    Mazda's current buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 24 month lease of a 2011 Mazda3s Sedan Sport with 12,000 miles per year are .00246 and 75%, respectively.

    Car_man
    Host
    Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum
  • Today I went to a MN Mazda dealer with the intention of leasing a 2010 Mazda 3 AT Sport. After test driving the Touring, I felt that stability control and traction were enough to justify an increase in price. After we had sorted through various leasing options, the best deal came out to be $255/mo on 12k miles, 36mo and $0 money down on a 2011 Mazda 3 sport. My questions are: 1. Is this a good deal? 2. Is it possible to find a 2010 Touring with moon/bose for a similar lease rate?

    Also, is there required scheduled maintenance which Mazda will force you to get and pay for? Thank you so much for your help.
  • amwke,

    There is no way to guage whether a 36 month, 12K mile lease at $255 per month with $0 up-front is a good deal or not. Too much information is missing. Many people focus on payment alone when leasing and that's a HUGE mistake. You need to determine the following...

    MSRP
    Sell Price called Agreed Upon Value (negotiable)
    Transaction Costs (i.e., dealer doc fee, acquisition fee)
    Cost of Money (e.g., money factor)
    Residual Factor
    Residual Value (Res Factor x MSRP)
    Pre-Tax Monthly Payment

    I suggest you educate yourself about the basics of leasing including lease terminology (e.g., gross capitalized cost, capitalized cost reduction, adjusted capitalized cost, money factor, residual value, etc.) as well as how to compute lease payments. Lack of knowledge in this area is like putting a guppy in a tank with a great white shark... the guppy won't even realize that it's been swallowed whole!

    Hope this helps.

    John
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