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2013 and earlier-Mercedes-Benz M-Class Lease Questions

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  • Hi,

    I was quoted the following odd combination today (high MF and enormous residual %):

    MSRP~~~~~~~~~~~~~51690
    Sale Price~~~~~~~49700
    Term~~~~~~~~~~~~~39 months
    Miles/yr~~~~~~~~~12K
    Term & Disp~~~~~~1190
    Tax (MA)~~~~~~~~~5 %
    Upfront fees~~~~~1100
    MoneyFactor~~~~~~.00415 (yikes) :cry:
    Residual~~~~~~~~~68 % (huh?) :confuse:
    cap reduction~~~~~~~~5000
    total outofpocket~~~~7065 (incl first payment)
    monthly payments~~~~~699

    I just really don't understand this combination, esp. with a "purchase option" of 31680 (I think this means post lease, but this doesnt seem to synch with the residual in the lease calculations.)

    Is this a good deal ? Do the numbers add up ? I have tried two different lease calculators and I can't duplicate the payment with these numbers.

    Thanks,
    Scott
  • Dear Scottlma...the reason why you can't make the figures add up are because they don't. In fact this "deal" is bordering on criminal. It's the most outrageous offer I've seen. Where do I start? 1) Only $2k break on MSRP? You should get at least $3k-$4k. 2) Money factor .00415= 10%? unless your credit is subpar this is criminal. 3) $5000 cap reduction? There's nothing wrong with a cap reduction if you want to lower your payments ... but it dos'nt seem to be helping this deal. My advise... don't walk...run from this "deal" and drop a grenade on the way.
    But again if your credit score is say less than 600, this might make sence. It appears that a person with such a score would be paying about $6k-$8k more to lease this car as opposed to someone with top-tier credit rating (above 730). Good luck.....
  • I agree that the money factor is way high, but, does the high residual make up for it ? I found a posting with all of MB's lease options:(http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=161916)
    - ran it both ways and got similar (but never quite exact) numbers. I went back to the dealer and got him down to 1000 over invoice on a similar ML350 - still mulling it over...

    Thanks,
    Scott
  • Value at the end of lease $51690*.68=$35149
    Sale price $49700 plus tax $1757 plus misc fees $1100 total $52557
    So you effectively finance $52557-$5000(cap reduc)-$35149= $12408 for 38 months @ (.00415*2400) = 10%
    Using a conventional loan calculator $12408 38 months @ 10% = $382/month
    From what you have said they want to charge you $699/month for this “deal” ..not the true $382/month to finance it. So although they may have said 68% residual … something is not adding up. Your dealer is pocketing 699-382=$317 * 38 months=$12046 WOW…. If you can get them to sit down and do the simple type of analysis I just did (and have everything written down … not just punched into a calculator in front of your eyes) you should get to around the same point (to within plus minus $20-$30). But I’ll bet you a beer this won’t happen….. Good luck
  • kandckandc Posts: 6
    I need advice. I leased a 2006 Mercedes ML 350 1 year ago for 4 years for $1023 a month under my company name. The total lease amount is $54,000 in which I put $8000 down and have paid easily $21000 already for this stupid SUV. Now I have this SUV for another 3 years what in the heck do I do? My credit score is 615 which in today's world means bad credit. Any advice would be great. I'm only paying this much because of my credit score. Can I trade down or trade it in on a lesser value car at mercedes or another auto maker?
    Thanks ahead of time. My credit is what got me in trouble. I don't want to refinance like the salesman said to do when my credit score improves which it has since I leased the ML I think my score was 570 then now it is different in all reporting agencies. 640 650 610 which I think my average when I bought my partner's mini cooper 2 months ago was 615. I'm just sick of paying this ML note every month?? What to do. I have 3 years left. Do they let you down size your car to a cheaper car to lower your note?
    Thanks
    k
  • kris17kris17 Posts: 18
    Wholly Mackerel !!!!! Your paying over $1000/month for a ML350 after putting down (probably 3k for taxes and stuff and 5k for capital reduction). Even with bad credit your payments shouldn’t have been much over $800/month (in my option), but dealers will do anything people are willing to “sign” to do.
    I’m going to suggest 3 things… none of them are that great and because I don’t know what our pay off is I’m kind of shooting in the dark. All of them are going to require you to take “a hit” and loose some $$$ … but your paying over $1000/month so even if you have to loose $8-10k (and that’s probably close to what it will be), you can recoup that kind of loss in less than a year.
    1) If you need another car to replace it…. Consider going to a desperate American manufacture like Ford or GM, pick out a new model that you can live with (preferably a model that they are having trouble selling…. Like a Humvee) and they will more than likely give you a trade in price close to what you might get by selling it your self. People are reporting good deals on both sides of the purchase (trade and price for the new car) from dealers who “have” to move slowly moving inventory. Not the Toyotas or Hondas of the world though. The blue book values for your ML350 (and I made some assumptions that it was pretty loaded) is currently $38-40k. Your payoff can’t be more than $45k. If you can get $36-$39k from a dealer as a trade in I would do it just to get out of this crazy lease that seems to be at 20% interest (I am interested in what money factor they gave you).
    2) Best option…. Sell it yourself …hopefully get $40k plus… payoff the lease and take the inevitable loss. If you keep it for another 3 years your losses will be HUGE.
    3) I don’t know what your company is… but many intervals use company credentials to shelter liabilities. If you don’t care about your company name any longer… just walk away… let them repossess the white elephant … and the company will take the credit hit.. not you. I would usually never suggests such a path, but because the dealer ripped you off (IMHO)… I wouldn’t loose to much sleep worrying about the poor dealer.
    But one thing appears pretty obvious to me… you’ve got to get rid of the truck. DO NOT KEEP PAYING OVER $1000/mo FOR THAT TRUCK. For that kind of payment you should be driving something a lot nicer. After 4 years you will have more than paid for it (roughly $54k or more) and you won’t even own it. I don’t think I was much real help, but your in a tough situation. Good luck….
  • kandckandc Posts: 6
    I am a co signer on the lease under my company. Yeah I fiqured I got screwed. I put $8000 down with some left over from the previous lease. What manufacturer do you think I can trade it in with? I was told you can't get out of a lease unless you trade it in with the same manufacturer? Help again please. I really appreciate your help.
    k
  • dhamiltondhamilton Posts: 873
    say that I don't think anybody forced you at gunpoint to sign this horrible lease deal. You did it on your own without doing research and knowing how leasing works. Don't do another thing until you've gone to the "10 steps to leasing a new car" thread on this website. Ultimately you are losing more money by keeping it but don't rush out and do something silly. I know I sound like a jerk but take some responsibility and educate yourself so things like this won't happen again. Car dealers take advantage of people who LET car dealers take advantage of them.
    Slow down and make an informed, and educated move. Good luck and let us know how you do.
  • billmvbillmv Posts: 146
    Scott --kris17 is forgetting about the depreciation component. Big part of the payment. You can't just use the equivalent interest rate on a lease.

    I ran your numbers and came up with approx $506 + $30 tax = $626 total. So $699 is a bad deal. You'd better learn how to work the numbers yourself so they can't take advantage of you.

    So what's the new selling price at $1,000 over invoice? Critical number to a calculation. You also need to tell us the acq fee they're using, since that is added to the negotiated selling price.

    Usually the purchase option at lease end is the residual, and your purchase option price is lower, so that's good.

    Also, recognize that $5,000 divided by 39 = $128 per month. So if you had no cap cost reduction, your payment would just increase by that amount. Pay them now, or pay them over time. Your choice.
  • Car man
    Do you happen to know the latest lease deal on the ML350?
    Thanks!
  • I just walked into a Dealer in Los Angeles today. Here you go the deal;
    MRSP 51000, 27 Mth Lease, $4500 drive off, 10K / Year, the monthly pay is $545 without tax, with 700 MID FICO.

    Does anyone know a better leasing program? Please HELP !!
  • this is what i was quoted for a new lease on a ML 500 pck gr 2 +exterior appearance group:
    msrp:58365
    price 55600
    trade in 14591
    terms 39 mo
    rate 0.003815 (i have excellent credit...i was told this is MB tier 1)
    residual .59
    allow 12000/year
    net cap cost 43209.92

    monthly 536.85

    can i have some help deciding if it is a good deal or not?
    i am brand new at thos leasing thing and not too familiar with rates and costs...

    thanks!!!
  • Couple of points:

    They are making money of the "rate" - more commonly called the money factor. With tier one credit the money factor on that car is .00325. Dealers often mark this up because the consumer has no idea what they should be paying.

    Unless you have money to burn (likely several thousand dollars) you should NEVER trade in a car. They are probably planning on making thousands on this part of the deal.

    Also - IMHO it is never worth putting money down on a lease. All you are doing is saving the interest expense on whatever you use to reduce the cap cost. You will end up fighting (probably unsuccessfully) to get it back if you total the car.

    The residual is correct, but make sure that they are calculating the residual based on the MSRP, not the purchase price. Residual values have no connection to what you pay for the vehicle.

    I just finished purchasing a ML500 and frankly think that I got a much better deal on a similar model. Feel free to contact me at moleary@grimeslog.com if you want some assistance. I can also send you an excel spreadsheet that will let you plug your own numbers in to double check the dealer.
  • drtraveldrtravel Posts: 395
    Just read the latest ML350 lease offer at MBUSA. They charge a $795 acquisition fee plus a $595 vehicle turn-in fee. Almost $1400 in charges for the privelage of leasing!!

    Are my eyes deceiving me
  • mkbdmkbd Posts: 8
    I was just offered the following deal and I would like to know anyone's thoughts:

    ML 350 w/premium I and 6cd changer MSRP $46,695
    License, "rental surcharge??", tire & battery fees $266
    Bank charge $1,095
    Dealer fee $599
    Cap reduction (after asking for quote with $0 down) $986
    Upfront taxes $192
    Disposition fee $595
    39 months
    12k miles/yr ($0.25/mi over)
    $566/mo + tax
    Also offered first $5000 of damage & fist 1000 miles over "wear & tear" policy for $675
    Thoughts anyone??
  • cneffcneff Posts: 65
    Ok - I would be grateful if anyone could let me know if I am on the right track here.

    2007 ML350
    Black on Black
    Premium II
    Heated Seats
    CD-Changer
    $3000 out of pocket to drive it off the lot (includes first month)
    $625 per month includes tax - 12K miles per year 39 months

    an ML320CDI maybe be $5 less per month

    I've been holding off to see if there would be a program in March but MB has been pretty select these days. With residuals on the move I am wondering if I should take this deal.

    Thanks in advance
  • I had two leases terminate on very similarly used vehicles at the same time, so here is what I can share about that lesser known period of the lease: The Termination...

    Driving my Audi was OK, but boy, the leasing department (Audi Financial Services in Detroit)was a very negative experience at lease end.

    Niggling charges up the whazoo on a very, very undermileage car. Mercedes Benz was a wonderful experience on a similarly driven vehicle turned in only two weeks later. If a credit card covers it, MB don't charge for it. No turn in fees for wear and tear. Audi was horrible and had many unjust and even incorrect fees- it was a laundry list.

    Somebody should tell AFS about customer service, it was a nightmare to reach anyone there. Of course, I couldn't even get a supervisor on the line at Audi to discuss the issues and the clerks were bored by my calls. I am very dissatisfied with Audi. Kudos to Mercedes though!
  • Does anybody know the residual rates and money factor for a 2007 ML 500?

    Credit: over 730 Fico
    Terms: 36 months, 15k miles/year.

    I check all over the place and there are huge ranges.... I assume they should be around 60% for 15k miles, 36 months and around .0025 money factor...

    Any insight is appreciated.
  • ok. can i do better?

    sale price $50,000
    Down Payment $5,000
    10,000 miles/year
    39 months= $556+tax
    fico aprox.750
    if anyone knows a dealer in the seattle area that can offer a better deal let me know :)
  • mlbenzmlbenz Posts: 2
    I think I received a pretty good deal after doing some haggling and leveraging an offer in writing on a Volvo XC90.

    MSRP 48,095 that included the following:
    MF .0024
    Resid .64
    12k miles 27 Mths
    Premium package
    Heated Front seats
    Destination 775
    Iridium silver 700
    6 cd changer 440
    Out of pocket 2600 included 1st payment

    $549 / month

    Originally they wanted 2.5k out of pocket, base car no premium package, for ~650 /month or 5k out of pocket base car for 530 month.

    I think I did well...always haggle with a competitors quote.
  • mlbenzmlbenz Posts: 2
    I think you can, see my post..
  • lau410lau410 Posts: 1
    I recently visited my local dealer (in Brooklyn, NY)and was quoted as follows on a 2007 ml350 with:
    -Premium 1
    -DVD nav
    -6 disc cd changer
    -running boards
    -heated seats
    $599/month for 39 months, 12k miles
    tax, bank fee, 1st payment due at signing= $3,369(MV fees not included)
    Does this sound like a good deal?-MSRP is $49,545 and i believe the selling price is 46,100.
    FYI: Last time I checked my credit, back in January, I was tier 1. Now, the dealer is telling me I am not- do you think they could just be trying to charge me more money? Thanks so much to anyone who can help me!
  • cneffcneff Posts: 65
    I leased an ML320 CDI (Diesel) last day of Feb so keep that in mind as residuals changed but this may help.

    Diesel is about $1k more then the ML350 to start
    Silver/Black
    Premium II (2)
    6 CD changer
    Heated seats
    1st 10K service included (not just the normal 1K or 3K look over)
    12k per year 39 months
    $3k down included everything (first month too)
    $625/month includes tax.

    Do I like the Diesel? Well yes...I am averaging 24.5mpg around the suburbs and on highways I've gone over 27mpg doing 65 or so. ML350 was a few $$$s per month less but I more then make up for it in fuel savings. Once you adapt to the characteristics of the power band for a diesel the "real world" performance is on par with the ML350 and once up to speed that torque really makes the ML fly.
  • wheatenvwheatenv Posts: 8
    Just leased a 2007 ML 350 with P1 package; heated seats; iPod connector; 6 CD changer; trailer hitch. 39 month lease; 12 miles for the following terms:
    - MSRP $48,260
    - Cap Cost $43,135
    - Residual 57%
    - Money Factor 0.00205
    - Drive off $1,852 (no cap reduction except the acquisition fees)
    - Payment: $545.51 (+$45 california tax = $590.51)

    Leased through the internet department of Downtown LA Motors. Awesome to work with and best deal around by far. Tried to sell me a "Wear & Tear" package for $1400 and then reduced it to $900 when i told him BMW's is $595. Ultimately i didn't get it.
  • oman9oman9 Posts: 97
    Looks like a good deal wheatenv...the drive off was tags, taxes, etc? Can you break it down, the $1,852? I know it's a small amount, just looking to know the details as I've never leased before and am looking to do so later in the year. Also how much negotiating did you have to do to get to your cap cost? Thanks!
  • wheatenvwheatenv Posts: 8
    - Acquisition fee of $795 (other dealers wanted $1095)
    - Sales/Use tax $69.30
    - License Fee $344
    - Document prep fee $45
    - Cal tire fee $8.75
    - First month Payment $590.51

    Didn't have to negotiate too much. I had low cap rates from other dealers for cars with fewer options and Dowtown LA Motors agreed to match the price on a percentage basis. Other dealers quoted a higher drive off and higher monthly payments for cars with fewer options, so i was very pleased with this.
  • mercassmercass Posts: 3
    I am planning to buy a ML350 on Employee Pricing.
    Please someone let me know if this is a good deal or would better shop around or bargain. Tier 2 MBUSA Credit

    27 Months, 10K Miles, 2007 ML350, Black on Black, Detroit.
    Premium Package, Nav, 6 CD, Heated Seats.
    475$ (Including Tax) for 26 months
    795$ (AQU Fee)
    2500$(Cap Reduction)
    150$ (Tax on Cap Reduction)
    200$ (Title and Document)
    475$ (First Month)
    So it works out to:
    475$/Month and 4100$ Down.
  • oiakouoiakou Posts: 18
    mercass,
    you need to know the selling price of the car ( a must), and one of : residual or money factor (since one could be backed out from the other, given the information above from your post)... But for simplicity, just ask the dealer for all 3 pieces of information.

    given that the dealer did not provide this information to you, it's hard to say how good of deal you're getting.

    http://www.carspace.com/guides/How-to-Negotiate-a-Good-Deal-on-a-Car-Lease
    http://www.carspace.com/guides/How-to-Calculate-Car-Lease-Payments
  • jegrahamjegraham Posts: 1
    On Friday, I negotiated a deal with a dealer, and put some money down to hold a ML320 for a week. I called the salesman today because I had an question about how much cash I wanted to put down. He then informed me that back in Nov. someone had bought the car, but had never picked it up. It was reported to Mercedes that the car was sold, so there is now 5 months gone off the warranty. Does this mean the car is now considered used?

    Because I am leasing the car, I would still be covered under warranty the entire time, but I'm starting to feel uncomfortable about the whole situation.

    Thanks in advanced.
  • paxtonkpaxtonk Posts: 49
    I've found myself in need of a new SUV in the next few days. Could someone please tell me what the lease rates are for May. Residuals and Money Factor for all terms, please base on 15K/year. Thanks a bunch.
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