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2013 and earlier-Subaru Forester Lease Questions

145791021

Comments

  • What kind of dealership lets you drive away in the car and come back the next day to actually sign the lease paperwork? Sounds like you may get a little dose of the ol' bait and switch trick. I just hope you didn't write them a check for anything yet.

    If they really want to lease a car they will do it fairly. If not, tell them thanks for the extended test drive and leave. As their front door closes behind you be sure to tell them you are going to a dealer who won't play any games.
  • where did i say anything about driving away with the vehicle?

    also you didn't answer my question. Doesn't matter - i called subaru finance and they said owner loyalty gets you up to $500 off your 1st payment, no security dep. and waiver of the disposition (which could be up to $300).
  • "I leased a 2009 X limited and need to go in tomorrow to sign the official lease agreement."]

    Where did you say you drove away in the vehicle??? Gee, um let's see...you said you LEASED, past tense. It is inferred. Also, the Subaru acquisition fee is $595 not "could be up to $300."
  • djhalptert

    Don't confuse acquisition fee with disposition fee.

    the acquisition fee is $595 this is what you pay up front to do a lease.

    the disposition fee is what you pay at the end when you turn your lease vehicle in. for subaru it is up to $300.

    i called subaru. the deal they have now is lease loyalty. if you are coming off a lease, they will waive the 1st payment (up to $500) on your next subaru vehicle waive security on your next vehicle and waive your disposition fee on your current vehicle.
  • stoopystoopy Posts: 105
    In talking to several dealers, not a single one of them EVER mentioned anything about a disposition fee. I know that most private bank leases have a disposition fee but I haven't ever heard of an automaker having one. I have leased through Ford, GMAC, Chrysler and never had a disposition fee. What is the deal?
  • My bad, I misread what you said. Although partially due to the fact that the disposition fee is a bull crap fee and should not ever even be considered. Shady, scam artist dealers are the only ones who require dispostion fees. It's just another way to screw the customer. Might as well add the $500 "paint sealant" option (also known as car wax.) Be sure and get the window etching for only an additional $300 too. Normally only banks require the dispostion fee. Never heard of anyone actually paying it when leasing through the car maker's financial entity.
  • ursusursus Posts: 48
    Car_man,

    What are the current MF and residual on it for 36 month/10K miles? Dealers in my area advertise "internet price" of ~$2K under MSRP (about $600 under invoice). Seems like a good deal, no?

    Thanks.
  • ursusursus Posts: 48
    Also, for XT with the same terms.

    Thanks.
  • In today's paper I saw a local ad (N. CA):

    2009 Subaru Forester 2.5X, Model 9FA

    $0 drive off, $199/mo. plus tax for 39 mos, 10K.

    Thank you.
  • Long time reader, first time poster here.

    I just got the following lease offer:

    Forester 2.5X Limited
    MSRP: $27,233
    Negotiated price: $25,503 (~$100 over invoice)
    MF: 0.001847
    Residual (58%): 15,795
    Cash due at signing: $479 (1st month payment included)
    Monthly payment $366 +$20 tax = $386
    36 month 15k miles

    I have 3 questions.
    1. Did the MF for February 09 change from 0.0016 in Jan to 0.01847?
    2. Is 58% the residual for a 2.5x Limted (it was quoted a few posts above as 60%).
    3. Does it look like there is any room to move in this deal.

    Thanks in advance!
  • Hi

    I just leased almost the same car as you at the end of January.

    my money factor was .0016 so i agree, it looks like it went up (their program changed effective Feb 3, so it seems reasonable - though can't say for sure)

    my lease is 36k/12k miles - my residual is 59%. if I had done 15k miles my residual would have been 58% so it looks like residuals didn't change.

    you should confirm that 25,403 is the "real" invoice as opposed to the dealer invoice which may include a load - profit for salesguy, marketing etc.

    in any case, I think you can ask for and get UNDER invoice if you are willing to shop around a little and negotiate firmly.

    I got about $800 UNDER invoice. I did have a doc prep fee of $300 so if you don't have that, then it would be $500 under invoice on an apples to apples basis.

    Keep in mind, dealers have something called a 'holdback' - which for subaru is 3% of msrp i believe. Usually this is not negotiable, but in this economy they NEED to move cars so even if you get the car below invoice, they are still making money. the holdback on my car was about $1,000

    here are my numbers
    msrp 27,333
    cap cost 25,345 (which includes the 595 acquisition fee)
    .0016, 59%
    322 per month (before tax)
    700 due at signing (1st, plus doc fee plus title etc)

    You may want to confirm your numbers again - based on what you posted for msrp, residual, money factor, and negotiated price, i get to a monthly payment before tax of $345.95 - but you are showing $366 so there is something missing in your deal?

    here are my calculations of your numbers
    (25,503 - 15,795)/36 = 269.67
    (25,503+15,795) * .001847 = 76.28
    total = 345.95

    thoughts?
  • Thanks for the info tsxowner! I had no idea one can calculate the monthly finance charge using the formula (Cap Cost + Residual) * MF.

    I thought something was a little off as I could not get the numbers they gave me to work out when using the LeaseGuide calculator. The wife and I decided the options were not worth it and we are planning to lease a 2.5x Limited with none of the options. Here is the offer I am going to email the sales person on Monday:

    MSRP: $26,690
    Cap Cost: $24,500
    Residual Value: $15,480 (58%)
    Money Factor: 0.001847
    Term (months): 36
    Sales tax: 5.5%

    Monthly payment: $324.52 + tax ($17.85)
    Cash Due at signing: $479.56 (includes 1st month payment, title, etc)

    The cap cost is $500 under invoice (according to edmunds), does this offer sound reasonable?

    The lease is up on our Jeep commander on Feb 27th. Any idea if there is any advantage to turning the jeep in early and transferring the plates as opposed to getting new plates for the Forester and keeping the Jeep till the end of the lease (i.e. are plate transfer fees less than new plate fees)?

    Thanks again!
  • No problem. Here are some thoughts:

    keep in mind, in some states, PZEV is required to be added to the car. This is $200 and doesn't show on TMV unless you add it in under optional features. Do you know if the it's required - if so you won't find a vehicle with 26,690 msrp, it will be $26,890. take a look a dealer websites.

    regarding you lease numbers. the pure math on your lease numbers is correct.

    However, keep in mind there is a $595 acquisition fee when leasing a subaru - this goes to the leasing company and is usually added to the cap cost, if not paid up front.

    So based on the numbers you posted, you are indirectly saying the cap cost of $24,500 includes the $595. If you ask the dealer for a $24,500 cap cost, you are asking them for $1,095 under invoice (or said another way you are asking for $500 under invoice and you want them to cover the $595 acquisition fee). Either way, you are asking for $1,095 under invoice. That said, I would GO FOR IT! - worse case they say no, but are more likely to meet you between $500 and $1,000 which would be great. REMEMBER - the economy is TERRIBLE, they need to move cars!!

    You might consider sending the same offer (first) to a few other dealers - send it to the website address they list. If any of them say ok or offer you something close - then take that to your dealer and ask them to better it.

    in your email:

    - tell them the exact car you are looking for, color, options etc
    - tell them you have already test drove and are looking to buy this week, but are doing some shopping around
    and list out the deal you are looking for (you don't need all the details) just these:

    MSRP: $26,690
    Cap Cost: $24,500
    Term (months): 36
    15,000 miles per year
    No upfront costs from you except 1st month and title

    They will have MF, residuals and should get to your monthly.

    You should look at the inventory on the dealer websites to see what they have. you might find that they don't have many "base" models so you may need to be willing to go with an option - in order to get the color you want. though keep in mind, the website is not always up to date and if you want a car, they can get it.

    you might consider the autodim/homelink mirror - it's cool and on a residualized basis, it's about $2 a month.

    Another good thing to know is rule of thumb on how the numbers work - this way if they have something different then the current numbers you are focused on you can figure out what the difference is. Based on your numbers keep this in mind:

    For every $500 change to your cap cost (up or down), your monthly payment with tax changes about $16 per month.

    cap cost increase of $500 so (500/36 + 500 * .001874) * 1.055 = 15.64 call it $16.

    For every $500 in additional options you add (so long as they are pre-installed - i.e. not installed at the dealer), your monthly payment will go up about $5 month. This assumes the invoice of the options is 85% of msrp for the options - which is roughly ok.

    Regarding plates, I do not think you can transfer plates for a lease. You will need to get new plates regardless.

    Regarding waiting until 2/27 or turning your jeep in now. That won't get you anything assuming your Jeep is not worth more than the buyout price (you could check that). You will need to turn your jeep into a jeep dealer - i believe and will also need to get it looked at "in advance" - i would contact the jeep dealer on who to call/schedule an appointment.

    If you will have trouble getting transportation, you should schedule your Jeep drop off and Subaru pick-up on the same day and ask the Subaru dealer to pick you up at the Jeep dealer. That said, unless you have parking issues, you could also keep both vehicles for a short period of time.

    hope this was enough info - let me know what you hear back from the dealers if you have questions etc.
  • Hi, can you please provide the current money factor and residual (36 mo, 15K per year) for a 09 Forester 2.5x premium? Is it any different for an XT?

    Separately, does anyone know if PZEV is _required_ in the state of California?

    Thanks - David
  • from edmunds TMV under options description

    PZEV Partial Zero Emissions Vehicle: Required on vehicles sold in CA, CT, MA, ME, NJ, NY, OR, PA, RI, VT and WA.

    don't know answer to residual question
  • Thanks tsxowner, I live in WI so no PZEV :)

    I emailed the dealer the above offer, but haven't heard back yet.

    In the mean time, I called another dealer in WI and asked for the MF for a 2.5x limited 36mo 15k mile lease and he stated it was 0.0016 not the 0.001847 I was quoted! I guess I will just email offers to the other 12 dealers in wisconsin with cap cost of 500 under invoice and see if I get any takers.
  • Hi ursus. Here's the information that you're looking for. Subaru's current buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2009 Subaru Forester X Premium with 10,000 miles per year are .00160 and 61%, respectively. The numbers for an otherwise identical lease of an '09 Forester XT are .00160 and 62%.

    $600 under dealer invoice is an excellent selling price for a leased '09 Forester right now.

    Car_man
    Host
    Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum
  • Welcome aboard, gdtrfb. Subaru's buy rate lease money factor for the 2008 Forester 2.5X did not change in February. It's still .00160. Something's off with the number that the dealer quoted you. However, the 36 month, 15k residual value of 58% that you were quoted for this vehicle is correct.

    $100 over dealer invoice is an excellent selling price for an '09 Forester. Just make sure that you get the money factor issue straightened out and you're in business.

    Car_man
    Host
    Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum
  • Hi 335xiguy. Subaru's buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2009 Forester 2.5X Premium with 15,000 miles per year are .00160 and 59%, respectively. The numbers for an otherwise identical lease of an '09 Forester XT are .00160 and 60%.

    Car_man
    Host
    Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum
  • Car_man

    In this economy, I think any dealer would salivate over someone willing to pay $100 over invoice.

    My forester was $700 under invoice. I would consider that an excellent price. I think negotiations need to start at $500 under invoice for any car.
  • ursusursus Posts: 48
    Thank you Car_man.
    I got mine X Premium+All Wheather last Saturday. According to the dealer, residual was 62% and MF 0.00160 for 36/10K through Chase.
    MSRP: $24,668
    Cap Cost: :$22,497 (incl. freight and 0 reduction) - I guess it's "at invoice" w/out freight or $695 under invoice since freight is included?
    Adj Cap Cost: $23,092 (incl. $595 acc. fee)
    Residual: $15,294
    $278/month and $1,350 at signing (tax, dealer fee, first month, tags/registration).
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    62% is an amazing number. It's low 50s for most competitors.
  • You might ask them to spell out what's in the $1,350 at closing?

    you don't pay tax up front on a lease.

    if 1st month is $278+tags/regis of $150, that leaves dealer fee of $900 - yikes!
  • ursusursus Posts: 48
    Actually, it was my choice to pay taxes ($720) upfront, rather then rolling them in the lease (extra $20/month). Dealer fee was $289 and I know exactly what was in the $1,350 ;)
  • For my benefit, can you tell me what the economic advantage is to paying the tax up front. It's not like your saving on any money factor financing cost since the tax is applied last?

    If you have the $720 available for the tax, why wouldn't you just park it in your savings account or other no risk investment, then siphon the $20 each month from it. Certainly, we are not talking about a big difference, but it is more than zero.

    thanks
  • ursusursus Posts: 48
    I like lower monthly payments, that's all.
    Plus, you will pay interest on the sales tax by adding it to the adjusted cap cost. By "parking" these taxes in a savings account even at 2%, you will earn about the same amount as you'll pay in finance charges (on you sales tax included in the lease payments), even if you don't "siphon the $20 each month" from your savings account. If you do "siphon the $20 each month", then you will lose money.
  • Tax is NOT added to the cap cost.

    The lease payment is determined first THEN tax is added by multiplying your lease payment by (1+ your state tax rate)

    Ask anyone.

    No economic advantage in this case to have the lower payment. Better to park the money in your savings account to

    1) earn a little interest
    2) have cash on hand in case of emergency
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 28,644
    That depends on where you live..

    Many, many states charge the tax upfront (some on the entire sales price!).

    regards,
    kyfdx

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • ursusursus Posts: 48
    Exactly, but tsxowwner doesn't know that :)
  • pano1pano1 Posts: 11
    Hey Car_man! I usually pay cash for all vehicle purchases but am having people tell me that I am foolish for not leasing since I seldom keep cars for more than a year or two. I am looking at an '09 Forester Limited that stickers for $27350. I don't want to lease for more than 24 months. I can buy the car outright for $24750. If you could be so kind as to give me your opinion on buying outright versus leasing for this situation, it would be greatly appreciated.

    I can usually resell my vehicles pretty easily by asking for KBB Private Value since people who know me know that I am very easy on cars and scrupulously maintain them. I drive 12000 mi/year and would be looking for a lease that allows 12000 mi. I know that Foresters keep about 61% of their value after 3 years and find it difficult to see that leasing for 24 months would be a better deal than buying outright.

    All the jargon that is used in this forum is unmitigated gibberish to me because I know nothing about the process, so if you would be so kind as to avoid that in your explanation or opinion, it would be very helpful to me. What I would like for you to help me determine is based upon the following premise. I believe that at the end of two years I will be able to sell my Forester for more money, thus expending less, by buying outright than by leasing. Feel free to blow my thesis out of the water. If you could provide some comparatives or numbers for my situation, it would be very helpful.

    Thanks,
    Pete
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