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Toyota 4Runner Lease Questions

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  • tiger93tiger93 Posts: 57
    Some of you may have read my post in the "Prices Paid" thread but if not, here are the details of my lease (note, this is for a 25k mile per year lease):

    3yr/25k mile per year
    Toyota 4Runner V6/Limited
    JBL Synthesis & 6 Disc, DRL's, Tow Pkg, Moon Roof, Spoiler, floor mats.
    MSRP = $39,651
    Cap Cost = $34,850
    MF = .00045
    Residual = $18,843
    Payment = $468/mo before tax.
  • kd232kd232 Posts: 5
    4Runner Sport V8 4x4, with moonroof & extra mile A:
    MSRP 36500
    cap cost 33800
    less $3800 trade in
    residual 20864/15K mi/year
    money factor .00055
    $375/mo

    I think I can do better, but am having a really hard time finding any Texas dealership to offer a price closer to invoice. Maybe cap cost includes holdback, advertising fees, etc??
    Any thoughts...
  • cjericcjeric Posts: 23
    I inquired about the SR5 4 x 4 V6 model with an MSRP of 32,641 (same in the current lease offer) at a dealership, and they refused to agree on a selling price below the advertised one of 30,500 since “these deals bring minimal profits to the dealership.” The invoice is about 29,000 for this car, so not a very good offer in my opinion, but it was interesting to hear the arguments they made and they also stated that my calculations of payments obviously were incorrect, even though I know for a fact that they weren’t. To say the least I’m very disappointed with this dealership, and I’m likely to go to another one where they offered me one for the selling price of 29,600 (same car + third row seat, MSRP 33,331).
  • jpp5862jpp5862 NCPosts: 334
    Matt,

    Which dealership are you using? I'm about to be in the market for a new 4Runner in Charlotte as well.
  • Advertising fees are already included in the Invoice price, and holdback is above & beyond whatever deal you make on the car (i.e., Toyota pays the dealer a set percentage INDEPENDENT of the deal it gives its customer).

    Toyota is offering a $1,500 direct-to-customer rebate on the 4Runners if you purchase the vehicle outright, but if you lease the "incentive" is built into the low money factor (.00055), which is a great rate, indeed. Still, dealers in the Northeast are routinely giving $3,500 off MSRP deals on 4Runners leases, which makes the Cap cost close to actual Invoice price. Your quoted price appears to be about $800 over, which in my opinion is just plain TOO HIGH.

    I'd suggest you look for the largest Toyota dealership in your vicinity and print out some of the good lease deals listed on this forum and show them. If your credit score is high, chances are they'll deal...
  • cjeric --

    One thing's certain: When it comes to purchasing or leasing a vehicle, you WILL GET FLEECED if you don't have the facts, figures and the smarts to sort through the [non-permissible content removed] they're trained to put you through in their never-ending quest to boost their bottom line.

    In this business, the unsuspecting public subsidizes all the good deals guys like us have come to expect. Once you put them on notice that you truly know your stuff, the facade comes down and they treat you like an equal. And when you make your next deal three years or so later, they level with you from the start, and treat you with the respect you should have gotten the first-time-around.
  • asm0721asm0721 Posts: 13
    I just leased a 2006 Sport 4 Runner 4*4, Roof, 6 Disc Changer, Tow Package. 2000 total cash down (Which included acquisition fee and 1st month payment, MSRP of 34,965. I did a 3 year lease, 15K per year. Total payments are 328.00 per month including tax and gap insurance.

    Did I do OK?
  • asm0721asm0721 Posts: 13
    Phil:

    On your lease deal you posted, does that include your sales tax? If so what is your tax rate in your state? Ours in 10% here where I live and I am just trying to double check I got a good deal.

    The only thing that bothers me on my lease, is I noticed my residual value is $21,428. I am not sure how they came up with that value since I thought all residual values were set by Toyota. I did a 3 year 15K lease on a v6 Sport. From my research the residual value should be $20,023. Only reason I am questioning it, is we might consider purchasing the vehicle when the lease is up.

    Is this something I should bring up to the dealer or with Toyota Financial?
  • ASM --

    Based on the MSRP you stated (I assume it included delivery, as is usual), your 3-yr. 15k mi./yr lease residual is over 61.28%, which seems way-too-high but hey, don't look a gift horse in the mouth, as they say. Your higher residual means you're payments are lower, since your monthly lease payment represents depreciation plus interest (lease rate), as well as taxes if you haven't paid 'em up front (BTW -- to answer your question, sales tax where I live is 8%).

    As far as your concern about a high residual, were you to purchase the vehicle at the end of the lease period, here's my take: If your intention was to buy it, you should have done so NOW -- so as to take the extra $1,500 factory-to-consumer rebate -- rather than AFTER the lease period. The overwhelming majority of folks who lease will return the vehicle and get into a new lease: Why make the same payments for a three-year old car when you can drive off in a brand new one, right?

    Judging from your monthly payments and the figures you provided, it looks like you got a good deal. I suggest you enjoy the next three years, return the vehicle when the time's up, and get yourself into another good deal.

    Just my humble opinion...
  • asm0721asm0721 Posts: 13
    Thanks Phil:

    I appreciate it. I didn't even think about the customer cash on the vehicle. You are right, we might as well enjoy the vehicle and in three years get one again. What other numbers would need to verify I did not get taken for?

    I will list what I think you might need:
    Cap Cost: 32,244
    Gross Cap Reduction 1401.45
    Adjusted Cap Cost 31572.55
    Residual Vale 21636.56
    Depreciation 9935.99
    Total Cash at signing 2000.00
    35 monthly payments of 329.93 (which include, tax and gap insurance.)
  • ASM --

    You got a VERY good deal. Your cap cost was slightly higher than you could have gotten where I live (Central NY), but only by about $270 -- and we don't get the overly-generous residual you somehow managed to get (you are using Toyota Financia Services, yes?) on your 3-yr.,15k mi./yr. lease.

    The bottom line is, you're getting an awfully big bang for your buck, here: A 5-yr. (60 mo.) car loan for what you paid for this vehicle plus tax would have come to over $591 -- and that's without penny of interest!

    'Ya did good, my friend...
  • asm0721asm0721 Posts: 13
    Thanks Phil...Thanks makes me feel much better...Yes I did finance with Toyota Financial and got a money factor of .00045 (1.08%).
  • cjericcjeric Posts: 23
    Phil,
    That is very true. Fortunately I went to another bigger dealership in the city, and they offered me a selling price of 29,825 on a 4Runner with a MSRP of 33,512, and an invoice of 30,325. The residual wasn't as great as ASM's, but at 19,593, it was still a better percentage than the other dealership.
    By the way, do you think it's best to get the gap insurance through the dealer or through your insurance agent? Seems like it would be cheaper through my regular insurance company, but I was wondering what you thought. Also, do you know if Toyota allows you to move the vehicle to another state? I'm waiting to hear back from the dealership on this issue...
  • cj --

    So you got a cap cost of $500 UNDER invoice? That's impressive, assuming it's a new '06 vehicle lease (where the $1,500 rebate doesn't apply) and you're going through Toyota Financial Services (where, unlike the dreaded bank leases, they won't nickle-and-dime you when you return the vehicle -- with even greater-than-anticipated wear & tear).

    The residual percentage you quoted seems right on target, cj (57 -58% on a 3 yr. 15k mi./yr. lease), and is much better than the competition (Subaru Ourbacks, for example, have a 51% residual for the same lease package).

    As to GAP, I've always went with Toyota because if I ever totaled the vehicle I wouldn't want to deal with an intermediary (i.e., my insurance company) when settling with Toyota. BTW -- Lots of people don't realize that it's best to put down AS LITTLE MONEY AS POSSIBLE on a lease, since all you'll get if the vehicle is totaled is a "walk-away" from the remainder of the debt -- whatever you've already coughed up as a d/p is "lost." That's why I go "no money down" (except of course 1st payment and DMV fees).

    Typically, the rule on moving to a different state is that you have to get "permission" from the lease company to do so (just like you're supposed to get "permission' to take even a day trip to Canada or Mexico. In reality, few people bother to comply with this bit of obscure "fine print," and I'd bet my last dollar that TFS doesn't care where the heck you go as long as you continue making your payments and return the vehicle by the due date.
  • rog11rog11 Posts: 5
    Hi All,

    I have founded the comments on this thread to be very helpful in understanding the leasing process. Thank you for your insights.

    I'm in NJ, and in the NY area, Toyota Financial Services (TFS) is running a January special on the 4Runner Model 8664 (base MSRP $29,910) with Group B Options (MSRP $2,000) (Options FE AW DR NE RL SR TO CD). Apparently, they are having trouble moving the 4runner--given current gas prices.

    The basic terms from TFS are as follows:
    1. $259.00 per month for 36 months.
    2. $2999.00 due at signing.
    3. Excludes tax, title, registration and acquisition fee. Security deposit waived by TFS.
    4. Money factor 0.000550 (1.32%).

    I have approached two dealers, regarding this TFS Lease Special. Dealer "A" offered the following:

    1. Dealer Cost: $29,587.
    2. Vehicle Markup $500.
    3. Total Cap Cost (Selling Price): $30,087.
    4. The Residual Value was 61%, for an adjusted residual of $19,293.30.
    5. Mileage was 12,000 (there was a mileage adjustment of $598.20 to the residual value).
    6. Each mile above 12,000 was to be charged between .22 and .25 depending upon negotiations).
    7. No Gap Insurance.

    Dealer "B" had substantially the same type of deal:

    1. Total Cap Cost (Selling Price): $30,500
    2. The Residual Value was purportedly 51%, for an adjusted residual of $19,294.
    3. Mileage was 12,000.
    4. Each mile above 12,000 was to be charged between .20 and .25 depending upon negotiations.
    5. No Gap Insurance. (Gap insurance would be an extra $600 for 36 months).

    Do these appear to be "good deals"?

    Second, is it likely that I can successfully demand that the mileage allowance be increased to 15,000 per year, and with any extra miles (beyond 15,000 per year) at .15 cents per mile, at these prices? I am wondering how difficult is it for the dealer to accept this in this type of transaction. Are their hands really "tied" by TFS? Also, what does the mileage adjustment of $598.20 to the residual value mean (i.e., does this mean that they normally do 15,000)?

    Third, how likely is it that I can successfully demand gap insurance be included, at these prices?

    I understand that someone obtained gap insurance on this thread for $195 plus $10. Is $600 for gap insurance for 36 months reasonable?

    Finally, what are I my chances of getting one of the dealers in the NY area to accept the terms of this lease, plus 15,000 miles (.15 extra), and gap insurance, plus an Echomaster installed (purportedly worth $400 or so from the dealer)?

    Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
  • tiger93tiger93 Posts: 57
    Rog11:

    Here are a few thoughts: first, I would suggest putting the minimum down on a lease. The minimum down would include 1st month payment, acquisition fee (if any), tax, title, and license. The first dealer quote you listed is asking for $2,999 due at signing which includes some fluff.

    I wouldn't worry about negotiating residual values because those are set by TFS.

    As far as the mileage, I'm not certain if your market on the east coast is the same as the midwest, where I just leased a 4Runner Limited, but in my case, TFS allowed me to "buy" additional miles up front at the rate of $.10 per mile. If I were to pay for these miles in the form of a penalty at lease end, they would cost me $.20 per mile. The mileage penalty is also set by TFS so I don't believe you have the ability to negotiate down to $.15 for excess miles. Your best bet is to insist on the 15k miles and force the dealer to take the cost of them out of his margin.

    I got the 4Runner with a cap cost about $500 below invoice, a money factor of .00045, and 25k miles per year. Due at signing was $1,001 with a monthly payment of $468 before tax.
  • cjericcjeric Posts: 23
    Yes, the selling price was 500 below invoice, so I can't complain about that one since it's a -06 vehicle through TFS.
    I will inquire about GAP to see what they offer. You mentioned you got it for $195 + a $10 processing fee, so that doesn't seem unreasonable. As far as money down, I even have the option of rolling in the first payment and DMV fees into the cap cost so there would be zero due at signing, but that doesn't matter so much. Like you said though, you don't want to make a cap cost reduction.
    Thanks for the advice regarding the "permissions." That make a lot of sense, just didn't want to end up in some major trouble :-)
  • jpp5862jpp5862 NCPosts: 334
    I have been asking several dealers in the Charlotte area for quotes on leasing an SR5 V6 4x4 with only a moonroof and side airbags. So far out of 3 responses I have gotten:

    Dealer A:
    The MSRP is 33,978.77 on this vehicle

    Selling Price - $33,727.10 - represents dealer invoice
    Money Factor - .002440
    Residual - $19367.90
    Cap Cost - $31,151.89
    Payment - $464.00
    36 months 15k miles per year.
    I do not understand how dealer invoice is only $250 below MSRP. I have asked for clarification but that is not right to me.

    Dealer B:
    For a 36 month lease, 15K miles a year,
    1st payment down you would be at 489 a month.
    Cap Cost is 31665.00,
    money factor is 2.34,
    and residual is 18809.00.

    $489 a month is by far the highest I've seen so far.

    Dealer C:
    Residual = $18581.87
    Money Factor/Rate 1.93
    MSRP is $32599.77 Cost of vehicle is $30,400.04 plus the 2000 rebate
    Tax is 1116.38
    Tag fee is $118
    Dealer doc fee is $599
    (all the above is included in the monthly rate of $429)
    This vehicle does not have the side airbags, which will push the payment up some.

    I understand that the Southeast Region is not subject to the low money factor, but these rates seem really high to me. I am going to price some dealers in TN and VA, both are driving distance and if they can come in much lower I don't mind driving a couple of hours to save.

    Even in the example Matt posted above, the Limited 4WD with navigation and a couple of other options was priced better than what I have received so far.

    :(
  • rog11rog11 Posts: 5
    Thank you for your suggestions tiger93.

    >The mileage penalty is also set by TFS so I don't believe >you have the ability to negotiate down to $.15 for excess >miles.

    You may very well be right about this. Both dealers stated that the minimum for the mileage penalty is .20, but I wasn't sure that they were telling the truth on that point.

    I previously telephoned TFS and spoke to one of the account people in general terms, and he said that the penalty for their leases is usually .15.

    However, one of the dealers said that for cars with MSRPs over 30K, the penalty has to be .20 to .25 per mile; and only cars under 20K were .15.

    So, maybe the TFS guy I spoke to was only referring to cars under 20K.

    I wonder if anyone reading this has gotten a penalty of .15 on a 2006 4runner? If so, what was the cap cost for the 4 runner?
  • rog11rog11 Posts: 5
    I have noticed that many people on this list are forced to consider traveling outside of their area to look for good deals, like jpp5862.

    One suggestion that I have is before making the trip, you may wish to log on to http://buyatoyota.com , and then enter a zip code from the area where you are considering traveling in search of a good deal. Then, simply click on "2006 4Runner: Lease" to see whether Toyota Financial Services is sponsoring any deals in that area.

    By the way, I really would appreciate knowing whether anyone has received an offer with a mileage penalty under .20 for each extra mile.
  • jpp5862jpp5862 NCPosts: 334
    I agree Rog, that is exactly what I did. Found two or three dealers in an area that is relatively close and asked them for quotes. Based on what others have posted on here I think there are good deals to be had, just none in my area.
  • cjericcjeric Posts: 23
    I was wondering what your experience is with dealer doc fees? Besides the DMV fees and the acquisition fee, is there any other fees that you would have to pay?
  • Can anyone tell me the current residuals on a Limited 4X4 with 12000 and 15000 per year and 24 and 36 months? I am assuming that the Current MF is .00055--is that correct also. Thanks.
  • jpp --

    Chances are, "Dealer A" is showing you not the Invoice price but rather "Dealer Cost" -- which includes Invoice plus a potpourri of other charges (electricity, gas, bank interest, commissions, prep, you name it...). DEMAND to see the Invoice itself, or else print it out from Edmunds.com. With good credit you should be able to negotiate a couple hundred bucks over Invoice (some dealers even sell AT or BELOW Invoice on this vehicle).

    "Dealer C" is hitting you with a $599 "doc. fee" which is pure, unadulterated "fluff" -- again, get the Invoice and offer nothing more than a couple hundered over for the entire package.

    Lastly, it's good to remember to always include Gap Ins., and put as little money down as possible at signing. That's because in the event you total the vehicle, Gap allows you to "walk away" from the entire balance of the lease -- but whatever you elected to pay up-front is lost.

    Happy hunting...
  • rog11rog11 Posts: 5
    Phil,

    Your point about Gap insurance is well taken.

    Is it likely that we can request that Gap insurance be included as part of the January lease special program, or is this the type of add on that we will absolutely have to pay extra for?

    Does $600 for Gap insurance on a 36 month lease sound reasonable?

    Thank you.
  • rog --

    TFS's price for gap ($195) is a one-time charge that carries through the life of the lease, so a $600 fee appears way out-of-line.

    You could purchase gap through your insurance provider, but I'm not sure you'd save any money, and in any case it's better to cut out the third party -- this way, if you totaled the vehicle you don't have to go through hoops to release yourself from the lease. If you purchase gap through TFS it will be clearly listed on the lease contract -- make sure it's there, along with the price you paid for it.

    Many lease companies include gap as part of their "acquisition fee," but TFS does not. Still, TFS has no "disposition fee," unlike Subaru Leasing and others, so the cost is still very reasonable.
  • rog11rog11 Posts: 5
    Phil,

    Thank you very much for the information, and your insights, which are greatly appreciated.

    I agree that it makes more sense to purchase Gap insurance through TFS, for the reasons you stated (provided that I don't overpay for it).

    So, I will first try to get the dealer to include Gap at no extra charge since $195 is not that high of a cost, given the price of the 4runner. If I am unable to negotiate that, then I will simply pay for it.

    Thanks again.
  • Does anyone know TFS's residuals on a Limited with 12000 and 15000 miles for 24 and 36 months. I believe the 15000 and 36 month is 57%, but would like to know for sure before I start to negotiate. Also, is the MF still .00055?
    Thanks.
  • jpp5862jpp5862 NCPosts: 334
    Phil,

    Thanks for the info. Dealer A wrote back and said his original number was a typo and it should have been 30,xxx instead of 33,xxx. Probably not the case, but that was his reasoning.

    So far my best lease deal on a 2006 SR5 V6 4X4, 36 mos., 15k miles, is around $437/mo. Not what I had hoped for, but this includes dealers from surrounding states which should have the .00055 money factor. I don't plan on putting any money down and will go with gap insurance for sure.

    Either way, these lease deals supposedly end next week, so this weekend I should be getting out of my current car and into a new 4Runner. It doesn't look like I'll see any $329/mo deals like some here, but I've tried.

    Thanks for all the advice. Any additional comments are always welcome.
  • jpp5862jpp5862 NCPosts: 334
    I was about to give up on finding deals similar to what others had listed, when finally the last dealer to call me had a great offer:

    0 down
    39 month lease
    $356/month

    I don't have the rest of the numbers in front of me, but I was quite happy with the deal. They were at least $80 cheaper than anyone else. It took some research and some work, but in the end it was worth it.

    I got a 4wd V6 SR5, silver with moonroof and side airbags. Love the truck and love the deal. Thanks to everyone here for your help along the way.
This discussion has been closed.