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Honda Civic Coupe vs. Scion tC

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Comments

  • xkiddx13xkiddx13 Posts: 122
    if your talking about the ne SI that blows the Tc out of the water... in looks and in every other aspect.
  • Hey guys! Thanks so much for all of the information!
    ----------------------
    THE CIVIC SI
    ----------------------
    I drove the SI first. I was wrong, it was actually a cobalt grey color that was suprisingly nice. Great looking car.

    My first impression of the car was as I got into the driver seat and closed the door. Talk about smooth. The door closes like a 50,000 BMW. Great build quality, I was smiling already. Also (I'm 6'0") I was suprised as to how perfectly the new zany dash layout worked for me (the steering wheel went right where it was supposed to go.) I do agree about the seatbelt though, you really do have to reach WAY back there for it.

    Anyway - on to the driving experience. From 6800 to what seems like 8100 rpms, the motor screams. I've driven nothing but V8's my whole life, so I'm accustomed to torque. I Was very worried about the 135 lb/ft of torque, but in this agile little car, it didn't seem to be an issue! I love it.

    this car had no nav, and no performance tires. THE DEALER offered me 19990 PLUS a "touch of class" fee of $1995 which he described as "paint preparation and scotch guard".
    I laughed in his face and told him that he had one chance to shoot me straight and he once again bs'ed me so I got up and walked out without looking back.

    Found the same car closer to my house for right at MSRP with no bs fees.

    -------------------------------------
    ACCORD 6-speed MT- EX
    -------------------------------------
    Chose the si over the accord. I'm 23 years old, and granted that its fast, powerful, responsive, black and a coupe, I could help but feel like I was 35 or so when I drove it. It feels SO much heavier than the SI, which of course, it is. I would absolutely be all over this car if I was 10 years older and married. Its very smooth, but doesn't really feel SPORTY.

    On another note, the new Nav system is not great, but it is the best NAV system I have played with. I still don't understand why people order NAV systems when you can get such a BETTER system from GARMIN that is a TOUCHSCREEN for half the price of the pre-installed factory system.

    Great car, just too old for me.

    TOMORROW I DRIVE THE OTHER CARS!!!!
  • Dowright82:

    Thanks for the great reviews.

    I am an old guy and I like the 2005 6-speed Accord Coupe; my first new car was a 4-speed 1970 442. However, I am still very young at heart and I have a 6-speed Rallye Red 2006 SI on order for "fun". I plan to change exhaust and add cold air intake.

    Good luck on your car quest. I think you have already driven the best on you list. Let me know how you like spooling up the WRX. And when you go to VW, ask to meet their service manager and look at how dirty their service area is (that is unless it is different from all other VW service areas I have been too). You will probably like the drive and feel of the VW though, just remember reliability and future service.

    Going to a car show tomorrow to look at the car you really want a $91K BMW M6.

    Double Sixes,

    MidCow
  • Hey - when I get home I'm gonna post a link to a video of a guy in a M6 - running 330 KM/hr

    its nuts.

    Yeah, I'm 23 years old - and I am proud to say my first was a 1970 BUICK GS with a 455. Talk about torque. I currently drive a 2000 silverado regular cab stepside with the 4.8 liter 5-speed with a performance clutch, eaton posi rear end, headers, reprogrammed ecu and a 2" drop belltech sport suspension. Rubber provided by Hancook via 275/45/20. I love my truck. I don't want to get rid of it, but I'm going to law school and need a more economical car. (or so I tell myself, I'm pretty sure that since my truck is and has been totally paid for for awhile that not only will my insurance go up, but suddenly i will HAVE A CAR PAYMENT. I justify this to myself via GAS MILEAGE, you can tell I'm still a kid) hahah anyway, I'm tryin to convince myself that selling the truck i love but have grown too accustomed to (no longer NEW and special) is a wise decision seeing as how it has 140k miles.

    what do you think Midcow?
  • Well, having had experience with all of these cars, here's what I think.

    You can't really go wrong with the accord. It seems to have the nicest standard equipment in it, and looks pretty decent in the 2 door version. The handling feels substantially tighter than a lot of cars in the same class. The aftermarket support isn't spectacular for the newer ones, but if you know a little bit about what you're doing, you can easily make some nice modifications.

    The VW is certainly an exciting car, but it somehow feels cheap to me. My girlfriend's sister has one, and I borrowed it one night, and just wasn't all that impressed. It has some kind of interesting and unique interior features though, I guess.

    I've liked the scion TCs since they were released. Decent looking, lots of room, an engine you won't have to spend money on for repairs. There's a decent amount of aftermarket support, but nothing spectacular.

    The Subaru is my personal fav. It depends on what you're going for, though. Of my two cars (2004 Maxima SE and 2002 WRX), the WRX is by far the most fun to drive.

    I'm going to go in a little more detail about this one, since I've always thought it was quite a lot better compared to other things.

    It offers AWD, which if you're in an area with snow or rain, is very helpful sometimes. You can't really burn out with them stock without overinflating the tires, but that's a good thing in my opinion. If i'm not mistaken they're the quickest out of this group by quite a lot, they're EXTREMELY stable at high speeds. The only issues I have with the new ones relate to styling. It offers 4 doors, which I'm really glad to have sometimes, gets very decent fuel mileage (even driving like a maniac I can get upwards of 24 in the city, highway mpg depends heavily on your speed).

    The cons are that there's a substantial amount of turbo lag, but if you're willing to put in a couple hours of work, and buy a new air filter, you can cut it by several hundred RPMs. Either way, downshift and the lag isn't a problem... And the speakers are basically made of thin paper. And although the handling overall is really quite decent, I wish the steering ratio was a little smaller so it would feel as capable as it is.

    Oh, and HUGE aftermarket support... other than vettes, I can't think of any car, especially without selling tens of millions, that even comes close... and there are a ton of ways to cosmetically improve them without making them look trashy.

    With that said, I think the accord is a great choice if you only need two doors, and don't need too much acceleration. It's great looking, and a few simple things can be done to the exterior to make it even better. Of course you'll want to do that, since you'll be driving one of the most common cars around (at least in this area).

    The subaru offers the same (if not a higher) level of quality. Overall I think the subaru feels a lot more solid compared to the accord. I drove the accord while looking for a car last year, and even though I bought the 04 maxima, the accord felt better pretty much all around, mechanically.

    Sorry that was so long-winded.
  • oh yeah, and also... i didn't check all of the backpages, but why aren't you considering an rsx (type s or otherwise)? they're not exactly the most reliable car in the lineup, but very solid overall.
  • headhead said:

    "but why aren't you considering an rsx (type s or otherwise)? they're not exactly the most reliable car in the lineup, but very solid overall. "

    RSXs are very reliable; did you have a bad experience with Acura ?

    Also the WRX increase engine size from 2.0 to 2.5 and the turbo lag is supposedly much less noticeable. I test drove a 2.0 WRX and yes there was substantial turbo lag.

    Cheers,

    MidCow
  • About the price comparison, this may have been different in late January when this discussion dropped off.

    I just purchased a Civic EX Coupe for 17831 including destination, which compares well with the "no haggle" TC price. Although the listed horsepower is different, they feel about the same to me, but the civic handles better and gets better mileage. I haven't compared, but the Civic feels lighter.

    I find the Civic IP very intuitive and entertaining. The speedo is right above the steering wheel rim so you always know, without even trying, how fast you are going. When you're busy downshifting into a hairpin with a yellow 15mph sign on it, it becomes a very useful feature! The tach is a slight glance down, where the speedo and tach would normally be anyway. It works great and looks awesome.
  • barrytimebarrytime Posts: 3
    My friend has a 2006 Civic LX and I was extremely discouraged from buying the civic for two reasons. A. I think the Civics are way to cheaply built on the inside and that they are way to radical with their new dash design, I drove it and It is the most annoying thing that I have every seen in a car. B. for that much money you should be provided with more standard features and a more adequate engine. Also I've heard a 5'10 person say that he could not fit in the scion tc, well I'm 6'1 and a half and am more able to fit in the scion than not only the civic but the Cadillac CTS which I love but i find hard to sit in comfortably. The scion beats out the civic in all compartments I believe. Better sound system that also will be able to upgraded or replaced if anything ever happens (How long do you actually expect a manufacturer installed sound system to last and at least the Scion's is name brand). The scion comes with rims, a must if you care about the way a vehicle looks (Friends LX cost him close to 19K after tax and title and he doesn't even get rims? someone explain this) More room in the backseat, I've yet to hear any one of my passengers to say they feel cramped which I ask everytime I have someone in the back, comfort is important. Horsepower 140 vs 160 and then torque I believe 128 vs 163, 140 hp is laughable these days and at least you can get a dealer supercharger at a LATER date with the scion. I could easily say that the only thing the civic has on the tc is gas mpg, which can be important but I drive around small town PA and see more civics than is healthy for one person in one day everyone just goes another economy car . The TC in my opinion is a hands down winner, comes from a higher quality brand (Toyota vs Honda, Toyota wins hands down), more standard features, and a gauranteed price, no hassling or fandangling, and most of all better looks with more uniqueness and customizing available from the getgo.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,707
    sells for only $15,000. That is one good bargain.

    The Scion tC holds it's value, in fact, I was checking on Kelley Blue Book.com the other day and a 2005 Scion tC was retailing for $19,490! They actually go up in vlaue!

    I test drove a 2005 Scion tC RS 1.0 and found the 160 horses to be more than enough power for me. More than enough. A semi-throaty exhaust sound straight-from-the-factory, too. The Scion tC wins this battle, hands down, dudes.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • The styling and mpg of the TC are both problems for me. I think it looks like a Volvo with BMW C-pillars. I like my cars to have their own honest design. The Civic looks like a Honda concept car. Also, all economy cars should average at least 30 mog.
  • bpraxisbpraxis Posts: 292
    Hello everyone and I had the pleasure of driving the Civic and was extremely impressed with the interior and exterior design.

    The rake of the windshield is more radical than some exotics that I have seen including the Acura NSX. Love the curves on the front fenders and how they blend into the headlights. The Civic is not a drivative design except for the headligths which I think they copied the Infinit FX to a small degree.

    Contrary to many posters in this forum I loved the two tiered dash design which is very futuristic and fun. The interior plastics were nice to the touch and I thought the curves and shapes were elegant. All of the controls fall readily to hand, excellent ergonomics.

    The EX had the very powerful stero and I thought it was just ok for sound quality.

    The power was just adequate and the gas milage looks fantastic. Why would anyone want the hybird when the base car gets 40 MPG on the highway?

    Toyota (Scion) and Honda are fantastic cars and we are faced with two great choices here.

    The Scion as someone mentioned previously is somewhat derivative in design but very pleasent. A combination of Volvo and BMW which is probably a smart move on Toyotas part. If I am not mistaken you have to pay extra for side airbags on the Scion.

    The fitment on the Honda panels were some of the closest tolerances that I have ever seen even compared to a Lexus.

    Another great car to compare these two in price point, fun and gas milage would be the Mini Cooper if we wanted to expand this forum,

    Cheers,
  • jce32jce32 Posts: 3
    It should also be noted on the safety front that the Civic Coupe only received a 3 out of five star rating for front passenger side impacts. All other ratings are in the excellent range for the new Civic. I would think this would be a concern for Honda as they make very strong marketing statements about "safety for everyone".
  • I have a tC and I think its better than Civic coupe. The shape of the Civic coupe looks weird, how its narrow in front and widen in the back. The two tier instrument is just outta this world awful. The Civic needs a bigger engine liter displacement, 1.8 is kinda small compared to the tC's 2.4. That standard lip spoiler on the Civic is barely noticeable.

    My tC was better for the buck (under 19,500 b4 taxes), even with all the accessories I had put in when I ordered it (lip spoiler, Scion security, 6-disc CD changer, and side air bags). The panorama moonroof is the coolest thing. Love that my back seats can recline because of the hatch back design.
  • Just to add to my last post, the digital speed-o-meter will probably most likely die in about a yr or two. I had a Prelude with the digital speed display and it died out like a yr after I bought it new back in the '90s. Plus, may not seem like alot, but tC does have alot of standard nick nacks like both windows are auto up and down, lockable glove box, the cover for the stereo is the coolest thing.

    Th Civic has an over-stuff/bulky looking steering wheel, the two tier instrument (almost as bad as having it in the center dash like a Saturn Ion), and what's up with the upside down door handles inside. It felt like it could easily break being that way when I test drived one.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    You have to remember that most of the things you mention are purely personal taste (interior design, etc...)

    The Civic deliever comparable acceleration 0-60 with the Scion (Civic Sedan 5MT did it in 8.0 sec according to Motor Trend's Car of the Year Test). This is identical to the 0-60 number produced by Scion tC.

    While being just as quick as Scion, the Civic also offers 7-10 MPG more than the Scion (Civic 30/38-40; Scion 23/30-31), a HUGE deal to some people shopping in the $15k-$20k class. At $3 a gallon, an extra 10 miles per gallon will amount to a huge savings over several years of ownership.

    Over 50,000 miles, assuming both cars average at their EPA Highway estimates you will buy:

    1667 gallons of gas for the Scion
    1250 gallons of gas for the Civic

    You will spend over $1250 MORE in the Scion at $3 a gallon. Unfortunately, if prices yesterday around Atlanta are any guide ($3.10), $3.00 a gallon will be cheap by next year, and the amount spent will only diverge more. Drive a car 170,000 miles like I have? You're looking at a minimum difference of

    5667-4250gallons = 1417 gallons * $3 = Over $4,250. Nearly more than a year's tuition at University of Alabama at Birmingham, where I currently attend. Suddenly, to the buyer who keeps their car a long time, the Civic just became the cheaper car.

    The stereo cover was something I couldn't live with (Again, personal taste). I don't like it in the $18k Scion, and think it looks ridiculous in the $35k Avalon. Just another pointless part to break, for me.

    I understand the dash design is love/hate. I got used to it in the 10 minutes that I drove the Civic. I also liked the Scion's design, except for the stereo cover. The climate control was neat looking, if a little fussy to operate compared to Honda's simple design (or Camry's for that matter).

    It felt like it could easily break being that way when I test drived (drove) one.

    When I looked at the Scion, the first thing I noticed was the cheap moonroof cover that was as flimsy as having a pull-down shade for my back door of my home.

    (almost as bad as having it in the center dash like a Saturn Ion),

    No way I can agree here, the Honda puts the information CLOSER to your line of sight, meaning less time off the road, and that realistically, you can see the speed in your peripheral vision. The Saturn requires turning your head and looking down.

    The Civic isn't the car for you, and there's nothing wrong with that, but a blanket statement of greatness from one car to another isn't ever going to be true.

    Both cars are quite good at what they do, the Civic just seems to do them better to fit my needs (e.g. same speed, MUCH BETTER economy).
  • We just look at different things when it came to buying our cars. I don't look at the whole 0-to-60 mph stats or mpg. I look at cars for style, standard equipment for the buck, and just personal preference.

    If I was worried about how I spent my money when it came to gas, I would have bought a hybrid, but those don't do it for me. Either way, everyone is going to have to buy gas for their cars no matter how much you end up spending. As for the whole 0-60 mph, I'm not going to anytime soon or ever slam my foot down on the gas from a stop to get to 60mph in 8 seconds. Don't tend to race my car anytime soon. Everyone has their preference and I have mine and I was just putting my thoughts into the topic.

    I have a '03 Civic EX coupe to and she's still great on gas. Civic is my everyday car from home to school and vice versa and my tC is for my night out of the town in Vegas. The new Civic just doesn't do it for me style wise, like my '03 Civic better.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I didn't mean to come off in an abrasive way; I tend to do that inadvertently. I'm a numbers and detail person, and that shines through in some of my posts. I personally fit better in the tC (came close to getting one), but liked the interior of the Honda models better. I ended up with a little more money to spend than i thought I would have, and got an Accord instead (good power, MPG and more room). I like what the Scion has to offer though, and can see why, for MANY, it is a deal that's absolutely unbeatable.
  • I've test driven the Scion tC but not the Honda Civic (LX), but I'll make a selective comparison of these two cars based on the official facts.

    From what I've seen TC has more standard features except for side airbag --

    17 inch alloy (tC) versus 16 inch non-alloy wheels (LX). (Not sure if this is better for everyone; is tire size affected by wheel size, and if so, is it generally more expensive to replace a bigger tire? I'm curious).

    tC has steering wheel audio controls, LX doesn't. tC has 6 speakers 160 watt, LX has 4 speakers and same 160 watt.

    tC has keyless entry; LX doesn't.

    tc has one touch power up and down driver and passenger windows; LX has only driver one touch up and down.

    LX has side airbags standard; tc doesn't.

    Putting these things on an LX or upgrading to EX puts the price of Civic well above price of tC.

    ________________________________

    Acceleration is actually about the same. tC has around twenty more horses, but it's also around 250 pounds heavier. Weight of tC with manual transmission is 2905 lbs.

    Civic has better gas mileage, around 7 or 8 mpg on average. Can go an extra 90 miles or so on a tank of gas with a Civic.

    Civic was Motor Trend's Car of the Year recently. I think the 4 door Civics look really cool (depending on the color), tC also looks good and tC has a certain distinctiveness on the road definitely.

    I'm going with a tC because, among other reasons, I actually like the idea of an extra 250 pounds, I like the idea of a stable, solid car (not saying Civic is unstable).
  • 17 inch alloy (tC) versus 16 inch non-alloy wheels (LX). (Not sure if this is better for everyone; is tire size affected by wheel size, and if so, is it generally more expensive to replace a bigger tire? I'm curious).

    Yes, as a general rule, larger wheel/tires are more expensive to replace than smaller ones.

    The mileage difference is on the order of 10 MPG better in the Civic, for similar acceleration.

    I can't decide which looks better, Civic Coupe or tC.

    Scion is great for its price!
  • What the Civic, TC, and for that matter the Eclipse have in common is that they are 2 door coupes. The differences vary from engine size to weight. The civic is a lighter car with a tuned transmission that produces higher MPG's. The difference in weight is the greatest factor in better gas mileage. If you are an aggressive driv er that mileage advantage will not occurr. If you care about ride quality the added weight of the TC is a plus since the body will provide a more solid feel.

    The difference in fuel cost is not that significant between the TC and Civic in realistic conditions. We have both cars in my house hold.

    Both cars are first rate and it comes down to personal taste.

    Regarding the comment on tires in the winter, no low profile regular tire is good in snow. For that you need real snow tires (all weather tires is a marketing not performance designation).
  • Regarding the comment on tires in the winter, no low profile regular tire is good in snow. For that you need real snow tires (all weather tires is a marketing not performance designation).

    I didn't see a comment about snow tires, just tire size :confuse:

    And with tire size, usually the larger the wheel and the lower the profile of tire, the cost goes up.

    For example, a 215/65 16 tire will likely be cheaper than a 215/50 17 tire.
  • I do not agree with the statement that "Fuel cost is not that significant between the TC and the Civic in realist conditions."

    If you have one driver with a specific driving style (fast/slow or smooth/wild), the car's miles per gallon should be the difference in fuel cost (not the driver). If multiple people with multiple driving styles drive the same 2 cars, then you will not be able to see the difference.

    If you follow the owner's manual on how to maximize your MPG, you will definitely see the 10 MPG difference that the Honda Civic has on the Scion TC (40 MPG Highway compared to 30 MPG Highway with an automatic DX). Also, the Scion TC can be deceptive in its MPG because it has a larger fuel tank than the Civic (14.5 compared to 13.2).

    When it is compared on looks alone, the Scion TC is a clear cut winner in my opinion!
  • doan4udoan4u Posts: 105
    "tC has keyless entry; LX doesn't."
    False, LX has keyless entry, mine do :P

    "tc has one touch power up and down driver and passenger windows; LX has only driver one touch up and down."
    False, Driver have both, mine do :shades:

    "LX has side airbags standard; tc doesn't."
    True, plus the front, and corner panel :D

    "Putting these things on an LX or upgrading to EX puts the price of Civic well above price of tC"
    True and False, Mine was less than tC, base on the price online :)

    Plus: foglight, auxilary jack, mud guard, 12 cd changer (add labor/cost for $400), courtesy light, sirius radio, navigation systems (add myself for $300), custom fit door handle light ($10) :shades:

    tC is not a bad looking car. My cousin drive a tC. The two good thing I see that my car doesn't have was the sunroof, alloy wheel :cry:
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    "tc has one touch power up and down driver and passenger windows; LX has only driver one touch up and down."
    False, Driver have both, mine do


    I'm afraid you didn't understand this part, as my dad has an EX (2007 Sedan) and even it only has driver auto up/down, not passenger side as well.

    Everything else is right.
  • Most car people I know will tell anyone the Scion TC looks way better than the Honda Civic, and a little bit better than the Civic Si. This census of opinions stays consistent with the interior and exterior of the Scion TC. It is a clear cut winner in terms of looks and flash, in my opinion.

    When it comes to performance, the regular Civic (DX-EX) outperforms the Scion TC in breaking distance, turning radius, miles per gallon, and reliability. The only exception is in Horsepower (160 to 140). When compared to the more expensive Civic Si, it is out performed in every department.

    I have not heard anything positive from consumer reports mentioning reliability with the Scion TC. You do with the Honda civic.

    http://www.consumerreports.org:80/cro/cars/pricing/best-worst-in-car-reliability- -1005/best-worst-models/index.htm
  • eldainoeldaino Posts: 1,618
    I myself was interested in the tc, but as subjective as looks are, you have to realize that the tc is part of a brand that is suppossed to offer a lot of bang for your buck, and although i don't think its a bad car, i think that the only think i like better about it than the civic is the backseat room. But that is it. I think the civic looks much better. (little lip spoiler? Does the tc even come with one standard? Lip spoilers arent meant to be flashy.). I also enjoy the enterior quality of materials much more, they feel a lot more upscale. The tc's are even more common too; they seem to appeal to a much wider demographic that has little knowledge of what the competion offers (hence some of the silly unbased posts earlier in this thread), therefore they are much more common; i realize the civic is a civic and you will see plenty of them, but the tc is so overdone i could never drive it. I'd take the civic anyday.
  • The comparison here should be between the tc and civic ex coupe. Yes MSRP is higher on the civic but check the true cost to own. Ex comes with in $400 of the tc over five years. Something to consider.

    Civic EX coupe 5 speed A/T $40,111
    TC 4 speed A/T $39,788
    Civic LX coupe 5 speed A/T $35,633
  • nifabnifab Posts: 7
    I am a female, interested in purchasing a 2007 Scion TC Manual Trans. My present car is a 1991 ACURA Integra LS, Manual, 225K, w/the original factory-installed clutch. I am trying to find a model with an Integra’s handling, reliability, and ability to go the distance, considering my price range (18K). I thought a new Scion TC would be a better investment and more worry-free than a used car, considering my traveling distances and safety needs.

    I went for a test drive, & was surprised by the TC's difficulties I had shifting (ie. getting into gear), partic. downshifting in an emergency stop. The 2nd issue was merging into traffic due to the obstructed left window view (do drivers no longer worry about blind spots?).

    I think I know how to drive a manual, considering the age of my clutch. I heard there is a big transition in going from a Honda to a Toyota manual. Therefore I do not know if my difficulties driving the Scion were due to this transition/myself, or due to the Scion’s transmission design.

    From the posts it sounded as though it was easy to burn through clutches during the break-in prd. Should I worry about that? Can someone answer these questions, and provide the correct way to drive a Toyota manual and how to avoid damaging the engine via revving as well as the clutch due to the learning curve?

    I am certain there is someone out there who can get me on the right foot with the Scion. I would hate to cross her off the list bc I drove her incorrectly.

    Tx so much for your help!
  • The driver-side blind spot isn't a problem -- the driver's window is all you need to get a clear view of the blind spot, assuming I guess that you don't sit too far back (incidentally, the side-view mirrors in any car should be adjusted so that you can just barely see (the edge of) your car). (The driver's side rear window is much too small to be of any use for checking the blind spot, but in the average user's case this rear window would be completely unnecessary).

    If it was a real emergency, why would you bother downshifting? Why not apply the brakes and then apply the clutch when the engine gets down to 1000 rpm?

    The tC has been my first manual transmission and I'm generally satisfied with the shifting.
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