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2007 Ford Edge

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Comments

  • lateralglateralg Posts: 929
    Please describe your procedure for the panic stop.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Brake pedal "feel" on modern day vehicles may be meaningless in comparison to the "olden" days. Most new vehicles have BA, Brake Assist, which helps you brake in certain "panic" braking, hard or severe braking circumstances.
  • srangersranger Posts: 106
    Please describe your procedure for the panic stop.

    It was fairly simple... Get up to 45mph and hit the brakes when I was even with one of the parked cars and count how many we passed until it stopped... This is not exactly rocket science...
  • lateralglateralg Posts: 929
    Sorry, I should have been more clear.

    Did you "stomp and steer"? i.e. hit & hold the brake pedal as hard as you could?
  • srangersranger Posts: 106
    Did you "stomp and steer"? i.e. hit & hold the brake pedal as hard as you could?

    I hit the brakes as hard as I could and held the wheel so that it stopped in a straight line. It stopped more or less in a straight line with little or no steering input...

    I did not try a power slid or anything if that is what you are getting at...
  • lateralglateralg Posts: 929
    I think we're getting closer. Did you also contimue to press the brake pedal down as hard as you could? Did you hear or feel the ABS doing its job?
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    Is this part of the way forward? Motor Trend, March 2007

    Order of finish:

    Last: Edge
    3rd Highlander
    2nd Santa Fe (Hyundai fer cripes sake)
    1st Murano (One UGLY mutha if u ask me.)

    Oh, and these are the old Murano and Highlander, not the brand new ones which will be out soon.

    BTW, Braking for the Ford - worst in the group. 149ft from 60mph. The Murano needed only 121 ft.

    Also, gas mileage - worst in the Edge. Hey Bill Ford, Mr Green Jeans, what say you about that?

    This is also interesting - the Ford is about 10% heavier than the rest yet it's cargo volume is almost 20% smaller.

    The Ford did win one category - exterior looks. Though the interior was back to the bottom of the heap.

    Unbelievable that Ford would try to foist this off on the public after the Firestone/Explorer disaster, and the exploding police cars and the story that Volvo engineers are teed off that FOrd is trying to lower the strength of the roof in their cars, etc etc.

    Hey, Mulally, what say you about this?
  • srangersranger Posts: 106
    What more do you want, Yes I pressed the brake as hard as I could. I am 6'-4" 230lb, I think I can fully depress a brake pedal. I was not looking at the dash during such a manouver so I did not see if the ABS light came on... The tires did chip a couple of times. I could not tell if it was the front or rear...
  • srangersranger Posts: 106
    Is this part of the way forward? Motor Trend, March 2007

    Order of finish:

    Last: Edge
    3rd Highlander
    2nd Santa Fe (Hyundai fer cripes sake)
    1st Murano (One UGLY mutha if u ask me.)

    Oh, and these are the old Murano and Highlander, not the brand new ones which will be out soon.

    BTW, Braking for the Ford - worst in the group. 149ft from 60mph. The Murano needed only 121 ft.


    Well that should end the "they fixed the brakes in the production model debate...."

    Does any one really still belive that an extra 28ft stop does not increase your odds of rear ending another car?
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,679
    Does any one really still belive that an extra 28ft stop does not increase your odds of rear ending another car?

    Sure. It's only a factor in a full panic stop and I can't remember the last time I had to make one of those. And even then it has to be a situation where you can't steer around whatever stopped in front of you.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,630
    from my wife after seeing a picture of the Edge; 'it looks like that porsche suv, but i don't like the grille'.
  • Though I find this brake talk interesting though probably played out most people have no idea about any of this.They are concerned about reliability,price and looks.You can put that in any order you wish.If the Edge turns into a pinto or corvair then people will notice but until then....
  • srangersranger Posts: 106
    The whole point of these forums is to share information. An obvious design flaw in the braking system seems like a valid discussion...

    Maybe people really do not care about little things like braking ability... I guess I do...
  • avery1avery1 Posts: 372
    I am glad to hear about the brakes but I think all that can be said has been said. If it is an important issue don't buy and move on to another vehicle. Repeating it over and over doesn't add anything new to the discussion.
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,110
    Feel free to start up a separate discussion on brakes. Just go to the Ford Edge group and click the "Add a Discussion" link.

    tidester, host
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    Well, you'll just have to get used to it. Because as the car magazines compare this vehicle to the competition, they are all going to notice that is takes the Edge an extra couple of car lengths to stop. They are going to write it up and people are going to notice and perhaps voice it here. To ignore it would be stupid. Some people will voice it or hear of it for the first time. And it may save their life. ME? I'm going to point it out every time a new magazine does. Why? Because I'm disgusted that Ford would put out ANOTHER poorly designed and likely unsafe product after all the stuff that's happened to this company in the past, that they would open another door to the ambulance chasing lawyers SHOULD put them out of business if they're that stupid.
  • Motorweek has a stopping distance (60-0) of 146 ft.

    http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2619b.shtml

    Another disparagement between the two tests is the reverse spec. Edmunds puts 0-60 at 8.3 seconds while MW puts it at 7.5 seconds. Both used a fully loaded SEL+.

    I wonder why the differences?
  • srangersranger Posts: 106
    Motorweek has a stopping distance (60-0) of 146 ft.

    http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2619b.shtml

    Another disparagement between the two tests is the reverse spec. Edmunds puts 0-60 at 8.3 seconds while MW puts it at 7.5 seconds. Both used a fully loaded SEL+.

    I wonder why the differences?


    Different road surfaces can yield different stopping results. So far the braking test of the Edge have ranged from 146' - 161'. Take the average and you are over 150'. The same is true of acceleration test preformed on differnet days and locations. One done on a cool dry day near sea level where the air is more dense might have a 25hp ( or more ) advantage over a test preformed on a hot humid day at higher elevation.

    The best test are ones where different vehicles are tested on the same day on the same road surface. This shows the true performance differences. The MT test for example showed a 28ft difference between the best in class and worst in class on braking on the same road surface...
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    Good response.

    There is also the question of options on the cars, particularly was it a FWD or AWD. I read the Motorweek article and they never said which drivetrain theirs' had. The AWD will be slower for sure.

    The March 07 Motor Trend test used and AWD w/big moonroof option. They got 7.7 0-60 time. And 16.8 all round mpg.

    BTW, I am very unimpressed with motorweeks 'tests' or 'reviews' or whatever they call em. They seem to be little more than resated advertising.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    for any modern day vehicle will be the result of an engineering compromise between two opposing "forces". Stopping distance vs directional control.

    On a dry high traction pavement the shortest stopping distance might very well be attained by disabling ABS. But then you risk losing control of the vehicle due to inadvertent lock up of the front wheels, or even the rears for that matter.

    It will be interesting to see how long it takes those very same engineers to figure out that the best of all worlds would be to disable ABS unless VSC indicates an impending loss of directional control.

    So, that extra stopping distance for the Ford Edge may very well be a GOOD compromise.
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    I see. So vehicle weight or size of actual braking surfaces do not enter the equation? Very interesting. Why not just stop the thing like Fred Flintstone then with a good pair of boots pressed against the pavement?

    *Maybe* what you're saying is that the Edge, given it's weight and choice of brake sizing and hardware, could not stop quicker unless it lost directional control? I dunno. Are you a Ford engineer?
  • lateralglateralg Posts: 929
    The statement:

    "It will be interesting to see how long it takes those very same engineers to figure out that the best of all worlds would be to disable ABS unless VSC indicates an impending loss of directional control."

    Is totally out of touch with reality. PLEASE stop making recommendations that, if followed, endangers people's lives.

    I've had a career as an enigneer in the auto industry, a significant portion intimately with brake systems, and I know from experience that disabling the ABS is one of the dumbest thing a vehicle owner could do.
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    Thanks, laterag.

    The rest of his post is pretty non-sensical as well.

    Interesting that his conclusion is that its good that it takes the Edge a lot longer to stop than the competition.
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,110
    Why not just stop the thing like Fred Flintstone then with a good pair of boots pressed against the pavement?

    I estimate that would take about 3,000 feet starting at 60 mph in a two ton vehicle. :surprise:

    tidester, host
  • colecole Posts: 67
    Basically what you're talking about. I just can't believe that they market it as power fold seats. As a consumer, I assume that power fold seats mean that they're power raise seats as well. All Ford has done is replace a pull cord with a button to push.
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    "Why not just stop the thing like Fred Flintstone then with a good pair of boots pressed against the pavement?

    I estimate that would take about 3,000 feet starting at 60 mph in a two ton vehicle.

    tidester, host"

    HAHA Yeah, but if it's in a straight line, maybe it's a GOOD compromise! And, what size foot did you assume? :>)
  • I have to admit I was pulling for the Edge to do better in the MT test now that they have a full production vehicle. While it seems Ford did re-calibrate the stability control system since the pre production models were tested, the other flaws remain. There is no longer any denying that the Edge has a significant disadvantage in breaking. You can write off one or maybe two tests, but when every single test done on a vehicle shows that it has long breaking distances, then it does. Seat of the pants impressions cannot tell you how long your breaking distances are.

    I also didn't realize how much of a disadvantage the Edge has from a packaging standpoint. Add to this the visibility issues, weight and mileage issues, and interior quality issues, and it seems Ford has produced a bunt when they needed a home run. I mean really, every car in that test has been on the market for a while; did Ford bother to test any of them? How to you release a car like this that you know isn't going to measure up?

    I'll still give one of these a drive for myself, largely because I'm a Ford fan and I really like the looks of this car, but I don't expect to be terribly surprised. The Edge seems to be the opposite of the 500; a great looking car with not a whole lot going for it beyond that. I hope for Ford's sake that the Edge's looks can carry it until some of the shortcomings are addressed. Once again, it looks like we've got another "yeah, but wait for the two year refresh" scenario.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,679
    There is no longer any denying that the Edge has a significant disadvantage in breaking.

    I expect the Edge to be as reliable as the Fusion which means it is not likely to break. :P

    Seriously though, it looks like Ford did the same thing with the Edge that it did with the Fusion - engineer to a price point $2K less than the competition (in this case the Murano). This requires compromises in some areas. Note this was done prior to the new regime and I don't think you'll see that going forward.

    I've heard from one of the engineers that they're switching to Michelins for 2008 and that should improve the braking.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,213
    I just can't believe that they market it as power fold seats.

    Where did you see them listed as "power fold seats"? Ford calls it the "EasyFold™ remote second row seat-back release" on their site. If you ask me both say that the folding action is power activated and has nothing to do with the action of retracting them to their upright positions.

    The system in the Expedition, Explorer and some others is called the "3rd Row PowerFold™ seat" and they do go up and down with the touch of a button. Ironically, that name doesn't tell me that it folds them back up either but the two names are definitely different.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    In Ford's "corner" on this.

    The "job" of the ABS ECU firmware is to detect impending wheel lock-up (it doesn't wait for the wheel to actually "lock", it "looks" at the rate at which the tire is slowing toward lock) during braking as early as is feasibly possible given current technological product availability and cost.

    Ideally ABS could use a linear servo system but due to current product COST limitations it must use a "bang-bang", PWM, Pulse-Width Modulation,type servo loop.

    Another cost related compromise.

    There are so many variables, roadbed type, roadbed condition, tire adhesions, etc, etc, etc, involved in this it is incomprehensible for most of us to get our minds around the problem.

    If you read up on current information in this subject you will find while that is sometimes the result, ABS is NOT designed into these systems as an aid in stopping quicker or in a shorter distance.

    It is there SOLELY to help you maintain directional control, allow you to provide stearing inputs if needed, and/or prevent under/overstearing during severe or hard braking where otherwise you might lose control due to brake induced lockup.

    VSC can detect the onset of skidding, overstearing or understearing, and react with corrective measures, long before your own seat-of-the-pants sensor will.

    So why not delay the onset of ABS activation until these is an impending or actual need for it as an aid to maintaining directional control?
This discussion has been closed.