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2007 Ford Edge

1505153555669

Comments

  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    I see. So vehicle weight or size of actual braking surfaces do not enter the equation? Very interesting. Why not just stop the thing like Fred Flintstone then with a good pair of boots pressed against the pavement?

    *Maybe* what you're saying is that the Edge, given it's weight and choice of brake sizing and hardware, could not stop quicker unless it lost directional control? I dunno. Are you a Ford engineer?
  • lateralglateralg Posts: 929
    The statement:

    "It will be interesting to see how long it takes those very same engineers to figure out that the best of all worlds would be to disable ABS unless VSC indicates an impending loss of directional control."

    Is totally out of touch with reality. PLEASE stop making recommendations that, if followed, endangers people's lives.

    I've had a career as an enigneer in the auto industry, a significant portion intimately with brake systems, and I know from experience that disabling the ABS is one of the dumbest thing a vehicle owner could do.
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    Thanks, laterag.

    The rest of his post is pretty non-sensical as well.

    Interesting that his conclusion is that its good that it takes the Edge a lot longer to stop than the competition.
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,110
    Why not just stop the thing like Fred Flintstone then with a good pair of boots pressed against the pavement?

    I estimate that would take about 3,000 feet starting at 60 mph in a two ton vehicle. :surprise:

    tidester, host
  • colecole Posts: 67
    Basically what you're talking about. I just can't believe that they market it as power fold seats. As a consumer, I assume that power fold seats mean that they're power raise seats as well. All Ford has done is replace a pull cord with a button to push.
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    "Why not just stop the thing like Fred Flintstone then with a good pair of boots pressed against the pavement?

    I estimate that would take about 3,000 feet starting at 60 mph in a two ton vehicle.

    tidester, host"

    HAHA Yeah, but if it's in a straight line, maybe it's a GOOD compromise! And, what size foot did you assume? :>)
  • I have to admit I was pulling for the Edge to do better in the MT test now that they have a full production vehicle. While it seems Ford did re-calibrate the stability control system since the pre production models were tested, the other flaws remain. There is no longer any denying that the Edge has a significant disadvantage in breaking. You can write off one or maybe two tests, but when every single test done on a vehicle shows that it has long breaking distances, then it does. Seat of the pants impressions cannot tell you how long your breaking distances are.

    I also didn't realize how much of a disadvantage the Edge has from a packaging standpoint. Add to this the visibility issues, weight and mileage issues, and interior quality issues, and it seems Ford has produced a bunt when they needed a home run. I mean really, every car in that test has been on the market for a while; did Ford bother to test any of them? How to you release a car like this that you know isn't going to measure up?

    I'll still give one of these a drive for myself, largely because I'm a Ford fan and I really like the looks of this car, but I don't expect to be terribly surprised. The Edge seems to be the opposite of the 500; a great looking car with not a whole lot going for it beyond that. I hope for Ford's sake that the Edge's looks can carry it until some of the shortcomings are addressed. Once again, it looks like we've got another "yeah, but wait for the two year refresh" scenario.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,666
    There is no longer any denying that the Edge has a significant disadvantage in breaking.

    I expect the Edge to be as reliable as the Fusion which means it is not likely to break. :P

    Seriously though, it looks like Ford did the same thing with the Edge that it did with the Fusion - engineer to a price point $2K less than the competition (in this case the Murano). This requires compromises in some areas. Note this was done prior to the new regime and I don't think you'll see that going forward.

    I've heard from one of the engineers that they're switching to Michelins for 2008 and that should improve the braking.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,210
    I just can't believe that they market it as power fold seats.

    Where did you see them listed as "power fold seats"? Ford calls it the "EasyFold™ remote second row seat-back release" on their site. If you ask me both say that the folding action is power activated and has nothing to do with the action of retracting them to their upright positions.

    The system in the Expedition, Explorer and some others is called the "3rd Row PowerFold™ seat" and they do go up and down with the touch of a button. Ironically, that name doesn't tell me that it folds them back up either but the two names are definitely different.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    In Ford's "corner" on this.

    The "job" of the ABS ECU firmware is to detect impending wheel lock-up (it doesn't wait for the wheel to actually "lock", it "looks" at the rate at which the tire is slowing toward lock) during braking as early as is feasibly possible given current technological product availability and cost.

    Ideally ABS could use a linear servo system but due to current product COST limitations it must use a "bang-bang", PWM, Pulse-Width Modulation,type servo loop.

    Another cost related compromise.

    There are so many variables, roadbed type, roadbed condition, tire adhesions, etc, etc, etc, involved in this it is incomprehensible for most of us to get our minds around the problem.

    If you read up on current information in this subject you will find while that is sometimes the result, ABS is NOT designed into these systems as an aid in stopping quicker or in a shorter distance.

    It is there SOLELY to help you maintain directional control, allow you to provide stearing inputs if needed, and/or prevent under/overstearing during severe or hard braking where otherwise you might lose control due to brake induced lockup.

    VSC can detect the onset of skidding, overstearing or understearing, and react with corrective measures, long before your own seat-of-the-pants sensor will.

    So why not delay the onset of ABS activation until these is an impending or actual need for it as an aid to maintaining directional control?
  • srangersranger Posts: 106
    I basically like the Edge. I think it would be a great fit for the type of vehicle that I want. I think it is packaged well, but a little too pricy in my opinion for what it is. If I could get one at 2k off MSPR I would probably be willing to buy one. However, the braking performance is a deal breaker for me. Even if you have to cut corners on cost, you SHOULD NOT compramise the brakes...

    If Ford would fix the brakes, I would go ahead and buy one. I am just not willing to pay $3x,000 for a vehicle with questionable braking. I suspect that it would cost up to $2,000 in aftermarket parts to upgrade the brakes to a level where I would feel comfortable... ( more if you have to replace the tires ) However, I doubt Ford is going to be willing to knock 4K off of MSRP for me to justify buying one and fix the brakes myself....

    And for you guys who defend Ford on this issue, you will be happy to know that this will by my last post on the brakes... :)
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,666
    What we're saying is that while we may be slightly disappointed and the braking should be better, it's not a deal breaker for most of us. Now remember that promise....
  • lateralglateralg Posts: 929
    "It is there SOLELY to help you maintain directional control, allow you to provide stearing inputs if needed, and/or prevent under/overstearing during severe or hard braking where otherwise you might lose control due to brake induced lockup."

    Wrong again.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,666
    Hmm... do I believe the guy who has an engineering degree and who made his living working on brake systems or the guy who can't spell "steering"?
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,110
    or the guy who can't spell "steering"?

    I'd go with the engineer - but only if he can spell the word "competitive."

    The import lovers just can't bring themselves to believe (or admit) that the domestics have competetive vehicles now. ( akirby, "2007 Ford Edge" #1090, 6 Feb 2007 10:38 am )

    Sorry - I just could not resist. ;)

    tidester, host
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,666
    I can take it as well as I can dish it out. Touche!
    :P
  • It brakes my heart to hear this.

    :P
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Back when I was in grade school, 47-55, steer was an animal and stear was a verb.

    Google for either, steer and stear are now used interchangably as a verb. On our MT ranch we raise Steers.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    "..you SHOULD NOT compramise (compromise) the brakes.."

    Sorry, the adoption of anti-lock braking is and always has been a compromise, compromising the braking capability versus the ability to stear, maintain directional control of the vehicle.

    Prior to ABS it behooved the driver to practice and learn how to apply hard or severe braking without actually bringing the wheels into lockup and thereby having the potential for loss of control.

    But being able to do that takes lots of practice. Additionally all that practice becomes needless if the roadbed in slippery, ice, snow, oil-slicked, etc.

    So no one questions, or should question, that like VSC and TC, ABS is a damn good aspect to have in many modern day vehicles.

    While braking hard or severely, if you could look out there ahead and see that upcoming patch of black ice, wouldn't you release some of that brake pressure as you reached that slippery area.

    But, neither you, nor the anti-lock system, can "see" that upcoming patch of black ice. But the anti-lock system can react quickly enough to release the brakes intermittently once the black ice patch starts affecting the rate at which the brakes are slowing the wheels.

    So, which would you rather rely upon, your own eyesight, your reaction time once the vehicle hits the ice and starts to wonder from your chosen "path", or an anti-lock system that almost instantly "unbrakes" the tires once they starting reaching the point of lock-up, REGARDLESS of traction conditions.
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,110
This discussion has been closed.