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Nissan Versa

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  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    Japan good, Mexican bad???? :sick:

    The engines with the recall was NOT manufactured in Mexico, it was not manufactures in Aguascalientes.
    There have been several recalls this past year of Toyota and Honda models that were manufactured in Japan. Japan does NOT equal quality.
  • Perfect distillation of my thesis moparbad. I really don't know why I was so long winded when I could have made my point so precisely with just those four words... after all, who needs verbs!!

    For those who do not read sarcasm well, let me clarify (in a bit more than four words). I'm in no way talking about Japan v. Mexico. In a globalized society production tends to be production wherever you go. I'm in no way talking about Honda Motors v. Nissan Motors. I'm hardly even talking about Fit v. Versa. I'm saying, plainly, that:

    A) The process of bringing a new manufactured good to market is not flawless, particularly for complex goods. A car (of any make, model, origin, religion, race, or creed) is a prime example of a complex good that is subject to flaws upon market entry.

    B) All automakers are subject to some degree to such flaws. Backy's reference to the Honda recalls is a prime example. So is my reference to the Altima/Sentra recalls. These Nissan problems were mentioned merely to point out that Nissan, like nearly all other car companies, is not exempt from flawed production. Some makes and models are more subject to trouble than others (Ford Pinto v. Volvo 240). Factors contributing to flaws include using cheap parts, poor engineering, factory error, and complex supply chains.

    C) The error rate for new vehicles of a certain model car is not static. Generally, it is inversely proportional to the amount of time a given model has been in production both worldwide and at a given facility. Problems also decrease as the manufacturer discovers errors in it's supply chain (a la Nissan's ring woes which are now corrected thus decreasing the error rate for Sentra/Altima). Thus, one would expect relatively few errors after a car had been in large-scale production at a given plan for a few years.

    D) The Versa is new to Aguascalientes. The supply chains for the US Versa are new. The labor force making the Versa is new. Does novelty equate automatically with poor quality? Absolutely not. Does novelty increase the probability that, compared to an established model, there are are reliability issues? Keeping in mind points A), B), and C) I say yes. The likelihood of Versa having problems for a year or two until they get all the bugs worked out is greater than the likelihood that Fit have problems. This doesn't mean that Fit won't have problems or Versa will for sure, but it's an educated conclusion. This is no reason to skip buying the Versa, but just go in with your eyes open... there are more costs than those listed on the price tag and they are not equal for all cars.
  • brianmitabrianmita Posts: 9
    the Versa CVT beat the Fit AT in Motor Trend's real world mileage results in its recent comparo. the

    32.2 for the fit, and 32.5 for the Versa. Priced out, the fit is $500 dollars cheaper in this config, but the versa comes with a bit more, like the bluetooth, etc. the yaris beat them both handily with 36.4 mpg.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,687
    You keep saying things like "the factory in Mexico making the Versa is new" and "the labor force making the Versa [in Mexico] is new", even after it has been pointed out that the factory in Mexico has been there making small cars for many years. So the factory is not new, and the labor force is not new (although they might add workers to handle the increased production).

    Would you agree then that when the all-new Fit debuts next year, it will be the Versa that has the lesser likelihood of problems than the new Fit? Buying any first-year model involves additional risk over buying a five-year-old design. Good examples are the 1999 Odyssey, the 2001 Civic, the 2003 Accord, and the 2006 Civic--all which had significant problems in their first year. Being built in Japan or the U.S. or Mexico or whereever doesn't eliminate that risk.
  • cjshowcjshow Posts: 16
    Here is a link to the article from MotorWeek (can't find video clip at this time). They liked the capable handling, softer ride and larger back seat in comparison to the Fit.

    link title

    I was able to sit in the Versa at the Detroit auto show. I was impressed by how large it felt inside. I sat in it immediately after the Matrix and felt it to be about the same size in feel, though the exterior is smaller. I also like the standard hard cargo cover in the versa, which is absent in the Matrix. The bi-leveled cargo area doesn't bother me that much as I will most likely be carrying passengers more often than cargo. I am looking forward to test driving one as soon as they come in. :)
  • I absolutely agree with the risk inherent in a new product model launch... be it Versa, Fit, Civic, Accord etc and the country of origin has little to do with anything. Of course, it depends on how much is new in the model redesign. If many of the parts are the same or the engineering is the same, I'd be less concerned as the suppliers and labor will be more or less "tried and true."

    I apologize for my phrasing "the factory in Mexico making the Versa is new." I intended to say "the Versa is new to the Mexican factory in which it is made for the US market." I stand by my assertion that the Versa labor force will start out new to the vehicle's production.
  • kc7kc7 Posts: 96
    Call me an unreasonable optimist if you want, but in my view, today, Nissan, Toyota and Honda's quality are NOT far apart. I feel they are SIMILAR. Yes, they have problems at Canton etc, but are Toyota and Honda cars, even those made in Japan, problem free ?

    And I agree that made in Japan does not guarantee anything. If you have been regularly monitoring automotive news, you will realize that even made in Japan cars still have occasional recalls, sometimes even in surprisingly massive numbers. And that includes Toyota who sometimes people think their quality is number 1. If you read the hybrid forums, sometimes the Prius have " strange " behaviour. Could be due to the complicated computer codes and the complicated powerplant.

    So I am not too worried. Yes, maybe some minor bugs could pop up, but these guys have been making cars for an awfully long time.

    To take another example, Boeing have been making airliners for so long. So if tomorrow they launch a new B-788, should people start to worry and avoid airlines using these aircraft because it's a " new model " and the factory people got to be re-trained etc ?

    For me, I don't worry so much. An aircraft is an aircraft. Basic design is the same. The fundamentals are basically the same. Same with Versa vs older Nissans etc. Engine maybe newer type, but hey, it's still mainly pistons, crankshafts etc.

    Unless like I said, it's an entirely new fangled fuel cell engine never before used and made on a massive scale. Then I may be quite worried.

    The internal combustion engine have been around for you know ages. In fact, I am more confident in Versa's conventional, albeit, improved internal combustion engine's "long term" reliability than say a hybrid's complex powerplant.
  • ross14ross14 Posts: 36
    To discuss safety, at least go to the collision results of government & insurance testing. then defend a position. To discuss reliability, before giving an opinion, go to government recall info. Go to owner surveys online. Go to surveys by J.D. Powers on cars. Go to "Consumer Reports" owner surveys. Get Data. Or should I tell you about this, or that cars worth, based on my guesstimates.? My wife is so impressed with the Versa, after looking at the Yaris, Accent, & the Fit. She doesn't care about the trunk. She just loves sitting in the driver's seat, which is so thick & plush, & feeling like she is in a much larger car. She doesn't consider the Versa a small car.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,687
    CR's predicted reliability for the Sentra, which is made in the same Mexican factory as the Versa is, is "Above Average." That is based on no worse than "Average" reliability ratings for the Sentra over the past eight years. I think the Sentra has been made in Mexico since at least 2000. The latest rating for the Sentra, for 2005, was well above average (solid red dot). I hope that bodes well for the Versa.
  • kc7kc7 Posts: 96
    Backy, I remember you said one of the reasons the Versa is cheap is because Nissan doesn't give us the newest technology like CVVT.

    That may not be 100% true. Why ? So far as I know, Versa's MR18DE engine is Nissan's LATEST design done together with Renault. In their homeland Japanese market, MR18DE is Nissan's newest and latest 1800 cc engine on sale there. No other Nissan 1800 cc there is of a newer generation. Correct me if I am wrong. Nissan have launched other models not found in USA like Nissan Bluebird Sylphy, and this sedan also uses the MR18DE.

    In fact for this new engine family (MR and HR series), Nissan claims the HR15DE is about 25% more fuel efficient than their previous generation 1500 cc engine. The MR20DE is even more impressive. They claim MR20DE is 37% more fuel efficient than the previous QR20DE engine.

    Thus from this fact, may I say that Versa's engine is the latest, most fuel efficient in Nissan's line-up that is offered to us. I mean does anybody have figures on Toyota and Honda's 1800 cc engine fuel figures ? We cannot compare Versa's 1800 cc to Fit and Yaris's 1500 cc. It just ain't comparing apples with apples. They are on par, because my research has proved that IF the Versa on sale in USA is using the HR15DE version, the mpg figures are virtually IDENTICAL with Fit and Yaris's engines, and even with that, Versa is still a bit heavier than Fit / Yaris.

    Maybe if there is enough consumers who want the 1500 cc version badly make their wishes clear and loud enough, Nissan North America may just sell this version one day ? A bit less power and strength, but you get Versa + Fit / Yaris's mpg figures. Actually if I am Nissan, I will also sell the 1500 cc version. But they probably have some reasons for not offering this version now.

    But having said that, to be honest, unless one drives hundreds of miles a day, I think the 1800 cc version makes more sense. The difference in gas money is small compared to the power and extra strength for climbing / carrying full load compared to 1500 cc engines. That is why many reviews feel Versa have more staying power / stamina when climbing and carrying heavy loads. That extra 300 cc sure makes a difference.

    Also, for those who intend to use Versa for longer periods of time, may I suggest you get the CVT version. Since CVT's improve gas by about 10-15%, the break even point for the premium you paid for is not too long. You can do the maths yourself.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,687
    Here is a quote from a review of the Versa. I can't post the link because it is from a competitive site to Edmunds. But if you use your favorite search engine on "Versa variable valve timing" and maybe encourage it with a shout of "yahoo!" you should find it.

    Other than the CVT, there's nothing truly new or envelope-stretching in the Versa's powertrain. No variable valve timing, variable intake or exhaust runners or high tech electronics are incorporated.

    Honda's 1.8L engine in the Civic, with CVVT, has EPA ratings of 30 city, 40 highway with the automatic. It also puts out 140 hp. Both figures exceed those of the Versa. Toyota's 1.8L CVVT engine in the Corolla has EPA ratings of 32/41 with the 5-speed stick, and 126 hp. Again, those numbers exceed those of the Versa.
  • kc7kc7 Posts: 96
    Fair enough backy. But here's the thing : Does Toyota and Honda offer a Versa kind of mini-maxi car for similar money ?

    The Civic and Corolla cost more and have less room. So it comes back to the question ? Extra gas mileage vs extra room / price vs what you get for.

    Well, in this case maybe you are quite right backy, but still, Versa's price tag makes her a good buy.

    Anyway, for me, I pay attention to the test drive feeling, the cabin / features etc. and the mpg figures, whether the whole package feels allright for the money. Even if the Civic's max hp is bigger, other factors may more than compensate, because remember, we do not often drive our cars to their maximum rpms.

    Its the whole package vs money we pay out that is the final deal factor I guess.
  • kc7kc7 Posts: 96
    In my opinion, a difference of say only 2-5 mpg really won't hurt our wallet, even at $3-4 gas, unless you drive 100+ miles daily and regularly. Maths shows it.

    After all, when we buy cars, other factors are also crucial, not just mpgs per se. Unless we are talking about changing from a 18 mpg to a 32 mpg car.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,687
    Then why waste your time asking the questions, since no matter what the answer it won't matter--you will still love the Versa.

    The question was about whether the Versa uses the latest engine technology. It doesn't. That doesn't make it a bad car. It's a choice Nissan made, and which buyers can make. It doesn't matter to me whether an engine has CVVT or not. It's the results that matter.
  • canuck785canuck785 Posts: 160
    i just received an email from a nissan dealership in my area (kansas) and he is getting 2 versa this week!!! i will post my comments after the " meeting" ;)
  • kc7kc7 Posts: 96
    Relax man ! Relax ! In a democracy, can't I ask questions even though I still love the car ?

    Just because a guy loves a woman, can't he ask people " Is my wife / girlfriend pretty ? " Obviously he will want to hear the good answer, but asking questions doesn't hurt, does it ?

    OK. Maybe you want me to say this, and I will. Versa is NOT a perfect car. For people who often haul lots of cargo, a better choice is to wait for the Versa sedan, or find another car. Yes, the Fit will do.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,432
    I hope the Versa sells well - may help bring down prices for the Fit.

    Like the size of the Versa, but it gets the same highway mileage as an Accord (with the MT - my choice), and Accords are very reasonably priced right now - and much roomier.
  • ecotrklvrecotrklvr Posts: 519
    I'm vacationing in the Bay Area; I took a chance and stopped by Boardwalk Nissan in Redwood City. They had a fairly well loaded SL on the showroom floor (no chance for a drive - would have loved to drive the CVT). It's back on black. The sales consultant, Robert, spent a lot of time showing me the car, and especially the bluetooth phone operation.

    Impressions:
    As said by many others, it's very roomy for tall people - I'm 6'4", and I felt more comfortable behind the wheel there than in my Highlander. Most notable is the all the room to the right of the driver's right leg. The Highlander is among the worst for intruding there - the Versa is among the best.

    The driver's seat is very comfortable. WAAAY better than my Highlander. Even in the SL, it's got no lumbar adjustment, but it's got decent support anyway. There's two levers on the right of the seat - one for cushion height, the other for seatback angle. Lots of range for both adjustments.

    Also amazing is the rear seat room. I could ride for hours in the back, even with the seat all the way back. Room for only two, but quite nice.

    The cargo area is decent, but could be improved. I wish that they had added the ability for the rear seat cushion to tumble forward (a la the Ford Focus Wagon) to create the ideal flat load floor. But even without this addition, it's a pretty big space. The thing that makes it a two-tier affair is the very low floor at the rear hatch. Whether the seats are up or down, the "barrier" formed by the rear seat cushion will prevent that heavy suitcase from sliding into the front seatbacks. So, there is an upside to this design.

    And, of course, the bluetooth interface. I love the ability to not have to even touch the phone to receive calls - there's a button on the steering wheel for that. The audio system automatically lets you know there's a call; touch the button to answer it, and then it is played through its speakers. There's a built-in mike (visor area). It's really a sweet system.

    When I get back to Southern California, I'll be driving this car for sure. The Highlander's seat is really bugging me these days. But it's gotta be silver or white (sorry, Robert).

    Anyone know if there's a roof rack / bike carrier available?
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,837
    A reporter aims to talk to some empowered consumers who pay no attention to ads and instead seek out their own information through community forums before making purchases.
    Please respond to jfallon@edmunds.com by Monday, July 10, 2006 and be sure to provide your daytime contact information and a few words about your experience.

    MODERATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • jbmeehanjbmeehan Posts: 5
    Does anyone know when the CVT transmission will be avaiable on the 1.8 base model Versa?
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,601
    They are avaialbe right now, I have 07 Versa 1.8 SL with the CVT. The dealer I got mine from had 3, one base but with a 6 spd, 2 SL's with CVT. The dealer told me that they ordered most of the base Versa w/the 6 sd. I'm sure you well be able to get one with the CVT, ask your dealer what they are due to get in...

    Tony :shades:
  • mschmalmschmal Posts: 1,757
    This forum is screwed up. You are all arguing Fit vs. Yaris vs. Versa.

    TO me thats like trying to decide between which of the three recent playboy playmates would be best to take on a date.

    Or which college you should choose: Harvard Yale or Princeton...(Stanford Berkley or UCLA for you west coasters)

    If you have actual in car experience you would like to share please feel free.

    If you have questions, please ask them.

    If you have never sat in either the Fit Versa or Yaris and just want to spout mindless unoriginal opinions based on "information" you read somewhere I suggest you think twice about it and maybe consider getting a hobby.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    You are ranting in the wrong topic. Rant hereYaris/Fit/Versa

    Also, what relevant point were you attempting to make regarding the Versa?
  • jbmeehanjbmeehan Posts: 5
    I know the SL model is available with the CVT trans right now. What I can not get is an accurate answer from any of our Nissan dealers in my area when the CVT trans will be available on the base Versa. One dealer said September but who knows if that is correct.
  • cjshowcjshow Posts: 16
    From what I understand from all I've read about the versa: The base model, or "S" trim is available in a 6-speed manual OR a 4-speed traditional automatic, with "late availability" (the same wording was used for the upcoming sedan version, which I've heard will arrive in either late fall or January). The upper trim level, the "SL" comes with either the 6-speed manual or the CVT. Therefore the CVT is only available on the "SL" trim, not the base "S" trim level. I strongly suggest you go to nissan's website and build your own using the "S" trim to confirm what transmissions are available. Don't count on dealers knowing anything. The ones I've talked with barely knew what the Versa was; and the Honda dealers weren't any better (didn't even know the Fit was 5 years old and was called Jazz in other markets).
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,601
    well I have read in may magizines is there is a shortage of CVT transmissions so Nissan will use a 4 spd unit in some cars for a while. So maybe the Dealer might now alittle more then we all think.

    Tony :shades:
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,601
    mschmal you are completely wrong regarding the FIT, YARIS and VERSA. In the automoblie world they are all concendered "entry level" cars from there manufacture, so you HAVE to compare them. IF someone wants the least expensive car then, they are the 3 thatyou compare. Just because the manufacture markets them differently doesn't mean "WE" are consumers are wrong.

    Since I'm the only one in this Forum (currently) who has a Versa, and has looked at all three, then what I write is not "mindless unoriginal Opioins".

    Tony :shades:
  • 719b719b Posts: 216
    i've been following this forum for a few months and i think everyone missed smchmal's point... or maybe i did?
    if i understand his point, he wasn't referring to you or anyone giving a review of their experiences in any of the entry level cars.
    he seems to object to the people that are comparing the three cars(yaris, fit, versa) and didn't drive any or all of them. they are using "expert" opinions for their arguments as to which car is better.
    if this was his point, i agree... it is mindless.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,687
    Are you saying then that these discussions about new cars shouldn't start until the cars are widely available for people to drive?
  • 719b719b Posts: 216
    not at all. it think half the fun when in the market for a car is research and getting input from drivers that have experience in one or more of the cars you're looking at.
    what i find pointless is when two people argue endlessly about cars they only have read about. neither of them have done a driving comparison, yet they seem to think they can talk about the subject with authority.
    talking about the features you like in an upcoming model makes sense, but to say one is better than the other is ridiculous.
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