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BMW 3-series vs Lexus IS

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Comments

  • pg48477pg48477 Posts: 309
    Does anyone have the sales numbers for IS and 3, it wont tell you which car is better, however it will show which car is more popular, for whatever reason. My guess is that 3 beats IS in sales by a mile.
  • I would say that is an accurate statement. The 3 series has also been out since May 2005 also so it actually will sell for about a model year and a half. To date I have seen 6 IS' on the road - a white one, a navy blue one, a black one, a beige one and 2 reddish maroon ones. I have seen a ton more 3 series but again they had a 6 month headstart. even with that advantage I'm sure the 3 will still outsell the IS for the time period they were both out.
  • Good reply!

    I was thinking the same thing...they say it can be turned off, well why didnt they just try it and tell us how it compared with VDIM off.

    If editors can do rolling starts or drop the clutch to try to match claimed 0-60 time, surely one can take 20 seconds to disable a feature they claim is too intrusive...cmon people.
  • IS350 w VDIM disabled

    The driver is supposedly chief engineer Suguya Fukusato who disabled VDIM during a debut.
    image
    image
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Well, guys, I took a couple of hours off yesterday afternoon and test drove both the latest 330i 6-speed and the Lexus IS350. Fortunately, I didn't have to take a pesky salesman in the passenger seat. They wanted to stay put and google over my 911S Cab and the thought of getting it in a trade. Right. ;)

    I hate to say it, but I was not that impressed with either car. At least not impressed enough to say, "it doesn't get any better than this". :(

    What has happened that cars barely big enough to carry 4 adults - actually, make that too small in the case of the Lexus - come in at over 3,400 and 3,500 lbs respectively?? :confuse: Here in wonderful DC, we pay an extra 1% in sales tax on vehicles weighing over 3,500 lbs. The only vehicles we have ever suffered that indecency with were SUV's. My 1995 Nissan Maxima, with room for 5 adults? 3,005 pounds. And with it's measly 190hp/205ftlbs, capable of 0-60 times in the 6.6 second range. It wasn't that long ago that I had considered the previous generation 530i 6-speed. Lighter than both of these "compacts".

    And, it was only a few years before that that I salivated over a previous generation BMW M3. The one with "only" 240 horsepower. The one that would completely blow away either of these 255 hp / 306 hp fatso's in a straight line, in the slalom, in braking. And be a sheer joy to drive. When I think compact sport sedan or coupe, that classic BMW is way above either of these 2006 vintage cars as setting the benchmark. (I can forgive the current M3's added weight, since the engine and chassis are that much better.)

    As far as the IS350 goes, any previous debate on the speed of the automatic transmission is moot. Taken through my test drive course, it displayed the same annoying tendency as the XC90 V8 6-speed we considered last winter. Downshift here, upshift there, extra shifts everywhere. If this is as good as it gets, just friggin shoot me when I can't shift my own with a real manual and a real clutch.

    Now for the good. These are both damn nice cars. Handling is very good and I certainly prefer RWD to the FWD setup on my TL 6-speed. The 330i still has a tighter, crisper feel in my opinion, but the IS350 was close.

    My bottom line here is that I would not buy either car. If I wanted 4-5 passenger space, I'd go with a 550i (which I also drove). If I could get by with a dimunitive back seat, I'd get an M3 coupe. Or stick with my 911S Cab. And if my budget didn't allow for those choices, I'd spend $33k on another TL 6-speed. Other than it's FWD disadvantage, it doesn't give up much to either of these more expensive, smaller cars. I guess I've outgrown the compact sport sedan option. Especially when they now weigh a quarter ton more than my old Maxima.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    My sentiments exactly habitat1.
  • bdr127bdr127 Posts: 950
    They wanted to stay put and google over my 911S Cab and the thought of getting it in a trade. Right.
    I hate to say it, but I was not that impressed with either car.


    Come on, that's not fair.... You get out of your 911 and into a 330i and IS350. Of course you won't be very impressed! :P
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,938
    ... And, it was only a few years before that that I salivated over a previous generation BMW M3. The one with "only" 240 horsepower. The one that would completely blow away either of these 255 hp / 306 hp fatso's in a straight line, ...

    Hold on. Didn't that generation M3 have 0-60 times in the 7 second range? :confuse: I don't think that's going to blow away even a current generation Civic Si in a straight line, let alone these two cars.
  • dave330idave330i Posts: 893
    "Hold on. Didn't that generation M3 have 0-60 times in the 7 second range?"

    No, mid to high 5 sec.
  • bdr127bdr127 Posts: 950
    "Hold on. Didn't that generation M3 have 0-60 times in the 7 second range?"

    No, mid to high 5 sec.


    I think the E30 M3 listed 0-60 times in the low-6's and the E36 in the mid-5's....
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    The E36 M3 was rated by BMW as 5.7 sec in 0-60. However, I recall road tests of broken in models ranging from 5.2 to 5.6. Back then, BMW was pretty conservative on their ratings. As Porsche is now. They claim a 0-60 of 4.7 seconds on the 911S. Various tests by R&T, MT, C&D, Automobile, etc. have all come in at 3.9 to 4.4. None have been as "slow" as 4.7. The only reference I could find on the E36 M3 in a quick Google was:

    E36 M3 Specs

    Without a doubt, the 240 hp E36 M3 was faster than the 255 hp 330i. And at least as quick as the IS350. But I'm not a drag racer and that wasn't the main point of my "disspointment". The E36, even in 4-door form, handled, steered, braked and just "felt" like a very nimble sports coupe. Quite a bit more so than the 3,400+ lb 330i, much more so than the 3,500+ lb IS350.

    Remember, I did acknowledge that these were both very nice cars. I was just trying to give historical perspective.

    And yes, before anyone throws it back at me, I'm also a few pounds heavier than I was 10 years ago. :cry: But at least I'm not trying to justify that as a good thing. ;)
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    me again ...

    We really need to try to not get into these extraneous off-topic diversions. We have several ongoing discussions where things are more free-form than they are here, but the topic needs to dictate the conversation ... and if that really can't be honored here, we're going to have to move on.

    Let me ask that those who are interested in comparing vehicles which are not in our subject line to those that are - or any other subset of interest - take a look at what's already underway on the Sedans Comparison board. If what you want to discuss is not there, feel free to fire up a new conversation.

    Meanwhile, if this discussion cannot remain focused on the defined topic, we'll need to wrap it up.
  • "The picture next to this writing should tell you everything you need to know about the new Lexus IS. In case you couldn't tell, that's roughly 28 yards worth of shredded tires laid through smoky burnouts and donuts on Downsview airstrip during the car's press introduction last week."
    image
    (Photo: Justin Couture, Canadian Auto Press)

    Let's see a 330i try to do this! You wouldn't seriously be able to say a 330i is more fun when an IS 350 is capable of doing this! And you wonder why they are afraid of letting average sport sedan-buying Joes push this puppy without some sort of nanny to slap them on their wrists!
  • bdr127bdr127 Posts: 950
    Let's see a 330i try to do this! You wouldn't seriously be able to say a 330i is more fun when an IS 350 is capable of doing this! And you wonder why they are afraid of letting average sport sedan-buying Joes push this puppy without some sort of nanny to slap them on their wrists!

    I have a feeling a 330i would have no problem doing this.... especially since you can get the 330i with a stick. (Ooohhh... zing!) :P
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Is this an aerial view of combines harvesting wheat?

    Look what the shredded tires of a BMW 330 did below:

    image
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Yeah, that's just what the enthusiast sports sedan buyer wants. A car that can lay rubber and do donuts on an airstrip, but requires you to put up with a overly active slushbox and annoying electronic "nanny" the rest of the 10,000 to 15,000 miles most of us drive a year. Heck, if you want to have fun at an airstrip, you can rent a Mustang GT from Hertz once a year. :confuse:

    Seriously, my test drives confirmed that, until the IS350 comes with a short throw 6 speed manual, it will NEVER compete with the 330i for a serious driving enthusiast's (NOT boy racer's) wallet. Yeah, I know that 70% of 3-series have automatics, but it's the other 30% that represent the "enthusiasts" and if not for them, this forum - and perhaps all of Edmunds - wouldn't exist.
  • hmm, did I miss something? Didn't you just described the 330i as an overweight pig? Apparenntly such a car should have no appeal to the "real enthusiasts," who should really be driving a 911S. On the other hand, if we do accept the theory that 330i manual has appeal to the "real enthusiats," and you are not one of them (as your earlier professed disappointment attested), then perhaps Edmunds is for a bigger crowd than the narrow-minded "real tnthusiasts."

    I actually agree with both points.
  • That's a foregone conclusion. 3 series is the only sedan that BMW sells in this price range, whereas Lexus/Toyota sells two other high volume sedans in the same price range, cannibalizing sales.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    The fact that I might prefer a 4 passenger (or in IS350 case 2+2 passenger) that weighed less than 3,400+ and 3,500+ pounds has nothing to do with (and does not contradict) that I consider a manual transmission a mandatory prerequisite of a "sports sedan".

    "Overweight pig" is your term, not mine. But, had I been so impolite, it wouldn't have been directed at the 330i.

    Maybe I'm missing something, but notwithstanding the attractive interior and powerful engine, are you suggesting that a 3,500+ pound curb weight, almost useless back seat and automatic only transmission are good things?
  • Look, the backseat of the IS 350 isn't exactly "almost useless". Sure, its not a living room, but with somebody my size up front, and a clone of myself sitting in the back I fit just fine, in fact, although "smallish" hell of a lot more comfortable than the 3 series' stiff bench.

    I am 5'11", 200 lbs, size 13 shoes.
This discussion has been closed.