Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





BMW 3-series vs Lexus IS

1353638404173

Comments

  • mikegillermikegiller Posts: 602
    Not as strange as using braking test results from a different model generation BMW 3 series in a comparison test.

    Maybe they haven't had experience with the e90 yet.

    I didn't know that '3' buyer's care about reliability and CR anyways..
  • rats13rats13 Posts: 42
    Well they've had no experience with the IS350 either. It does seem bias that the BMW is dubbed inconclusive because it is a new model and the Lexus is recommended better than average on its new models.

    And Yes I am a "3 buyer" and I DO care about reliability of my next car. Maybe that just me. :confuse:
  • mikegillermikegiller Posts: 602
    And I bet you do. Sorry, I was just having a little fun.

    I agree, it does sound strange, but I don't know if it has anything to do with bias; bias would be rating it poorly. If it doesn't have a rating yet, I would say that they didn't make a deadline for finding it out before the data had to be published in the report; that's what I think had happened.

    I would like the 3 a whole lot more if I didn't like the IS so much.

    :)
  • rats13rats13 Posts: 42
    No worries. I think CR gives Lexus the benefit of the doubt on new models based on the history of their other models which I understand but still is kinda unfair.

    I would like the IS a whole lot more if the fricking interior wasn't so small :cry:
  • mikegillermikegiller Posts: 602
    Family eh?

    I think the IS interior is perfectly cozy. It gives me a nice, warm, fuzzy feeling all over. :) I'm happy that I am so young.
  • lovemyclklovemyclk Posts: 351
    "I think the IS interior is perfectly cozy"... if you are built like a Hobbit ;)
  • mikegillermikegiller Posts: 602
    Haha... ugh... or, if you don't have a family and don't need to chauffeur people...
  • pg48477pg48477 Posts: 309
    What doesn't add up is over 300HP engine with nany that will not allow you to use 250 of them and no MT. Why would they limit such a fine engine with a nany, may be you have a better answer. Like I said IS chassis and suspension can not handle the power. I'm not talking about Toyota in general, they are more then capable to build a first grade everything. Forget 10 years old Supra, Toyota builds chassis for F1. All that though have nothing to do with IS.

    Majority of vehicles on the road today have traction and/or stability control systems but the one in IS is the most intrusive in this segment , by far. BMW also have a nany but you can almost push the car to the limit before it would interfere, plus you can shut it off.
  • Before my goddaughter elected to get an M3 over the 330i and IS350, she commented that the IS350 wasn't that noticably quicker than the 330i 6-speed. That seemed to contradict what the Lexus proponents here would claim.

    I had a few minutes between meetings yesterday, so I stopped into a Borders Books and picked up a current copy of Road and Track. From their "Road Test Summary", some interesting 0-60 stats:

    330i: 6.4 sec (vs. BMW claim of 6.5)
    IS350: 6.0 sec (vs. Lexus claim of 5.5?)
    545i: 5.3 sec (vs. BMW claim of 5.6)
    M3: 4.8 sec (vs. BMW claim of 4.9)
    M5: 4.1 sec (vs. BMW claim of 4.5)
    911S: 3.9 sec (vs. Porsche claim of 4.6)

    As you can see from above, in the hands of the same road testers, all of the BMW's match or significantly beat the manufacturers claims. The Porsche is in boni-fide super car territory compared to it's relatively modest claim. Only the Lexus falls well short. Given that it (claims) to have 51 hp more than the 330i and only 27 less than the M3, it is the clear underachiever of the group.

    What I think is particularly funny, is that high end BMW's and Porsches are generally not bought by boy racer kids that are looking at 0-60 as the holy grail. I'm not even sure of what that stat is for my 2003 M5. Yet Lexus apparantly thinks that 0-60 is so important to its buyers as to overstate its performance by a embarassingly large amount. What does that tell you about Lexus? about its target market?

    I suspect that somewhere out there, some road test was done that supports Lexus claim. But after checking out every magazine on the rack, I didn't find it. And the slowest times I found for the 330i was 6.4 (and for the 911S was 4.4).

    I think Lexus should take a course in modesty when it comes to tooting their own horn. Puffery doesn't make for a good heritage when it comes to performance cars, even if it does appeal to boy racers. Fortunately, my goddaughter isn't one.
  • C&D were biased BMW's way in their shoot out. The E90 electrics failed on them several times but they still gave it top spot. CR observed the electrics as a weak spot in their reliability ratings.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Car and Driver recorded 0-60 MPH for the IS350 in 5.1 seconds, well under Lexus' claims. next up the list were Acura TL and Infiniti G35 which tied at 5.9 sec. BMW was in the 6.0 second and up catergory. In the article (posted online) they don't list the BMW's time in the article but they do mention all the troubles they had with the NEW car, keyless start - not starting, ABS - they nearly spun the car 360 degrees b/c ABS just didn't work, Airbags - A warning light; luckily they didn't try this out!
    **NOTE - Test numbers are in the article's "box o' numbers", but I couldn't find the pertinent information in this little time I have.

    Also, remember, this test was done at temperatures over 110 degrees, a sub-5.0 sec number may have been reached by the lexus if temperatures were more moderate, around 70 degrees.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "Also, remember, this test was done at temperatures over 110 degrees, a sub-5.0 sec number"

    The real number will likely be a sub-6.0 number. Time will tell. I don't believe C&Ds numbers myself, but I know a lot of people believe their numbers are gospel.
  • qaliqali Toronto CanadaPosts: 58
    Talking about speed (and nothing else)

    From Edmunds.com
    http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpcontainers/do/vdp/articleId=109021/pageNumber=3

    Lightning-quick Lexus

    Behind the big "L" in the grille sits a 306-horsepower monster. Without needing the forced induction of a turbocharger or supercharger, the free-breathing 3.5-liter V6 in the IS 350 is a model of linear power and smoothness. A 5.6-second sprint to 60 mph and a 13.9-second quarter-mile — digest that for a moment. That's as quick as a Mercedes-Benz C55 AMG and just dusts the 330i.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Why would they bother to lie about it? Because the magazine gets better numbers than Lexus claims, it must not be true? Shoot, Toyota's Avalon got a manufacturer claim of 6.6 sec, while Car and Driver pushed it to 6.0 sec even. Just because the numbers don't support one's particular case is no reason to discredit them without base.

    Here is a quote from Motor Trend: "The Lexus is a full second faster to 60 than the 330i and the 280hp G35. The six-speed auto is a worthy partner."
    -No editing in that quote. I promise.
    In that particular IS350, MT garnered 5.5 seconds to 60, meaning that Motor Trend only managed as quick as 6.5 sec for the 330i and G35. They also had a quarter mile in 14.0 sec at 99.8 MPH.

    They get their numbers from accelerating in the manner that gets the fastest time; different from just standing on the gas; they likely brake-torqued the Lexus.

    Consumer Reports accelerates as many consumers would = by just flooring the accelerator and shifting at redline (for manuals).

    Car and Driver, Motor Trend, etc... often shift past redline (in the Civic Si they shifted against the fuel cutoff at 8,500 RPMS rather than the 8,000 RPM redline.
  • mikegillermikegiller Posts: 602
    "Yet Lexus apparantly thinks that 0-60 is so important to its buyers as to overstate its performance by a embarassingly large amount. What does that tell you about Lexus? about its target market?"

    What is more embarassing is that you don't realize that the IS 350 was rated by a 3rd party, called WARDS, and was given an official time, after thorough testing, of 5.3 seconds.

    "I think Lexus should take a course in modesty when it comes to tooting their own horn. Puffery doesn't make for a good heritage when it comes to performance cars, even if it does appeal to boy racers. Fortunately, my goddaughter isn't one."

    And neither does ignorance. I am not calling you ignorant, but you are, for a lack of a better set of words, "lacking balanced knowledge".
    End of story, no?!

    Boy racers, eh? Tell me how many "boy racers" can afford a $40,000 USD vehicle. You don't think that BMW appeals to the mass market too? If you don't, then....
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "Why would they bother to lie about it? "

    They don't lie about it, the apply a proprietary algorithm that takes into account the altitude and weather. This means you usually don't the "real" number, and sometimes they don't even say where they tested.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    You probably didn't follow the initial conversation in Edmunds in 2002 with the introduction G35, but this will likely be the same type of thing. I invite you for your reading pleasure to peruse the comparos.
  • mikegillermikegiller Posts: 602
    No kdshapiro, I didn't.

    I'll assume that you are at work now - as am I - so you don't have time to elaborate on what you had said, but I don't understand what you mean.

    So, what will be like the same thing? :P

    And which comparos?
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Ok, I can admit I hadn't thought about that.

    It still doesn't take away from the fact that the Lexus I-S 350 is "a second quicker than the 330i". It just means that BOTH the numbers would have been subject to said algorithm. Nothing much changes between the two.

    I'm off to the beach. Have a good weekend guys...I'll be home Sunday night; maybe I'll pop in.
  • mikegillermikegiller Posts: 602
    Have a good time.

    I am envious of you. I live in Winnipeg, and I have a lot of clients in California. All I hear about is the nice weather!

    It's freezing here!
This discussion has been closed.