Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





BMW 3-series vs Lexus IS

1246749

Comments

  • sdiver68sdiver68 Posts: 119
    ...now that the SAE has a new "certified" HP methodology, I would like them to take it 1 step further..."certified" AT THE WHEEL HP! They should choose a standard, commonly available rear wheel or all wheel dyno and release the numbers that way, of course corrected for standard conditions. This way, consumers could verify actual usable HP, and the test would be inclusive of efficient driveline design as well as efficient engine design.

    In the world of performance motorcycles, rarely is 1 magazine test done, comparo or otherwise, where they don't strap the bikes onto a dynojet and print the resulting graph in the article. They also often shod them with the same rubber, adjust the suspension for best results, and post lap times.

    I would like to see Road and Track or Car and Driver do the same.
  • sdiver68sdiver68 Posts: 119
    "He might have been better off saying G35x to G35 RWD to avoid this whole situation in the first place, I guess... "

    I agree, it was not my intent to start a BMW v Infiniti war with that post, rather I picked the 2 cars I personally feel are performance leaders in this class...the 330i Sport for the dry and the G35x for adverse conditions. Oh no, I just did it again.... :surprise: :blush:
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    I read the whole thread, theres not much here :). Did I misunderstand your posts?
  • potemkinpotemkin Posts: 196
    "You need to do your research..."

    I did my research. Shipping cost is aka Destination charge. It's US$695.00. And yes, it's included in the price -- it always is.

    By the way, perhaps the folks over at e90post.com know when someone is trolling?
  • You mean Point West Auto Park, right beside Assinaboia Downs? You were probably talking to a short, skinny, bald man (we cannot post salesmen's names here on this forum).

    I personally like the G35, but the interior is no where near as nice as the IS in my opinion; the interior smells like plastic and the use of plastic is quite extensive and seems quite flimsy (cabinets for instance); looks like a Nissan IMO, not a luxury car.

    And speaking of reality which dewey seems to have no grip on: The number of 5.3 is not what Lexus claims as an in-house number, but "AMCI-Certified acceleration testing, six-cylinder automatic sedans, Ward's Segmentation". Research the facts, dewey, before you make bold statements of misinformation.

    Dewey, quit twisting the facts; your rhetoric is really, really tiring.

    And btw, the G isn't even close to it. ;)
  • Oh, I know you are not joking. Just last night me and my buddy went cruising in his 323ci, a 1997 I believe. Let me tell you, it is not a really fast car by any means but it is a fun car to drive and corner on. I got to drive his car and I had quite a blast driving it. BMWs are very, very fun to drive, espeically with the top down. He hasn't had any problems with the car.

    Older design BMWs look better than today's. Literally, the car's interior does not make me want to vomit but I find it somewhat tasteless in comparison to the Lexus IS which I find has a very elegant, modern look to it. I will be spending most of the time in the cabin of my car so that is where I want the comfort and style.

    I have heard of way too many people I know that have had problems on their BMWs and even 3 series. In general, I have heard too many problems ocurring on German cars. All Toyota owners I know are happy with their cars, myself included.

    The speed, luxury, technology, and also style suit my needs just fine in the order (most important to least) I like just perfectly in the IS.

    I would never knock anybody for owning a 3-series and if somebody gave one to me I would be one happy camper, but dollar-for-dollar, the IS wins me over simply because it has all the things I want in a car and its reliability is without question in my mind.

    That's life... I like Lexis, some like BMWs (I do too, but not as much). The IS is officially faster than anything else in the class too.

    :)

    Edit:

    As a matter of fact, I think I will go maybe today or Monday to Point West to test drive a 330i and G35.

    Haven't gotten an IS 350 to test-drive yet (none in yet). That will be fun (and will seal the deal)!

    :shades:
  • gbabaluk, are you related to Mark?
  • "Is reliability an issue for the 3 series? That is news to me?"

    - It seems like you are questioning your own logic there! -

    "I have been researching the stats and I see no reliability issues! Your claim sounds bogus to me! I would really appreciate it if you can back up your claim about BMW3 reliability issues with facts!"

    Are you kidding?

    I posted this earlier and is what you initially responded to: Note: fit and finish (10) - 9/9 "The electrical ticks began shortly after it was delivered. Ours [push-button start] would work only after several exasperated pushes and fiddling... Then the ABS lamp lit. We tried to execute one stop on our high-desert test road and nearly executed a 360 spin at 70 mph... Shortly thereafter several airbag-malfunction warnings lit up... Even with its dash ablaze in emergency alerts, the 330i wormed its way into our hearts." - C&D

    Sounds like something I would not like to gamble on...

    I would have the same reservations if this happened to the Lexus.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    posted this earlier and is what you initially responded to: Note: fit and finish (10) - 9/9 "The electrical ticks began shortly after it was delivered. Ours [push-button start] would work only after several exasperated pushes and fiddling... Then the ABS lamp lit. We tried to execute one stop on our high-desert test road and nearly executed a 360 spin at 70 mph... Shortly thereafter several airbag-malfunction warnings lit up... Even with its dash ablaze in emergency alerts, the 330i wormed its way into our hearts." - C&D

    Mike this explains everything! No wonder you are mistaken in believing BMW 3 series are unreliable cars!

    The C & D stats are great in explaining just one single BMW330i! When I referred to reliability I was talking about the BMW 3 series as a group not one particlar 330i that was tested by C&D!

    You do know the difference between anecdotal evidence and statistical evidence, right? The C&D evidence is anecdotal therefore useless! Statistical evidence involves thousands of cars and therefore are useful!

    So I repeat my question : Please show me some real evidence that the BMW 3 series is unrelaible! Hint: the stats are provided by JD Power and Consumers Report and based on those stats the BMW 3 series are not unreliable!
  • "You do know the difference between anecdotal evidence and statistical evidence, right?...

    ... I was referring to the facts of the R&T Speed Comparison dated Nov/Dec! And I repeat those are facts and not twisted facts!"

    Fact is, is that you mention an unofficial time done by a magazine with ad revenue.

    The difference is that you are referring to the R&T acceleration numbers as an official number since the number is a fact. The reason why the magazines post the variables such as atmospheric conditions, road temp, ambient temp, etc. is because those values play an influence in the testing of the cars, as well as how much the cars have been broken in, the driver, etc. In an official test done by a 3rd party candidate, like I stated, the IS 350 got a 0-60 mph time of 5.3 seconds. This is official. Not some magazine, but an official 3rd party that rates all makes of vehicles.

    It is fact that the G35 received a better time, but things would be a little bit different if they were raced side by side, not individually.

    I wonder if you have ever done a scientific experiment in your life!

    Somebody is in denial. The facts are that the IS 350 is simply faster. It has been confirmed...ugh... 5.3 seconds. I am sure you can find a wide variety of times for various cars, but the reality is that once you achieve an official number which is not in question due to the nature of the controlled testing, you let go of the past (some of us) and accept reality!

    Where the twisting comes into play is that you pretend like R&T did this one comparo where it unofficially received a worse time than the G35 and all-of-a-sudden the G35 is faster than the IS 350 all the time?

    If not, then why the hell mention it in the first place!?

    Huh?????
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    six-cylinder automatic sedans, Ward's Segmentation". Research the facts, dewey, before you make bold statements of misinformation.

    Dewey, quit twisting the facts; your rhetoric is really, really tiring
    .

    Huhhh??? :confuse:

    Yes, Lexus does use AMCI-Certified acceleration testing number to boast the 5.3 figure that few testers can achieve! Where did I state that this 5.3 figure is in-house???

    What facts did I distort when I was referring to the R&T Speed Comparison dated Nov/Dec?

    The IS350 achieved 0-60 in 6.0 seconds The G35 beat the IS350 and the BMW330 was beaten by the IS350 by a mere 0.2 seconds.

    Please explain to me where I used rhetoric or twisted the facts?
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    was referring to the facts of the R&T Speed Comparison dated Nov/Dec! And I repeat those are facts and not twisted facts

    You have confirmed to me that you do not understand the difference between anecdotal and statistical facts! Therefore this discussion is a waste of time!

    Facts is that you mention an unofficial time done by a magazine with ad revenue.

    Are you implying that BMW bribes magazines with ad revenue in a far more convincing manner than what Toyota spends on ad revenue?

    I wonder if you have ever done a scientific experiment in your life!

    Are you referring to the person who gets his reliability records from one C & D road test?
  • "Are you implying that BMW bribes magazines with ad revenue in a far more convincing manner than what Toyota spends on ad revenue?"

    Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa... horsey... who here mentioned BMW? Certainly not I... So, quit putting words in my mouth!

    I had said earlier:

    "Where the twisting comes into play is that you pretend like R&T did this one comparo where it unofficially received a worse time than the G35 and all-of-a-sudden the G35 is faster than the IS 350 all the time?

    If not, then why the hell mention it in the first place!?

    Huh?????"


    So? Why mention R&T? Why? Tell me. If I don't know the difference between anecdotal and statistical, which I am sure you imply stricly as an insult, at least answer me why you keep on referring to the magazine for your arguments. It is not my lack of knowledge of the English language that inhibits my understanding of what you are saying but your lack of humility in admitting that you are actually wrong!

    Right about now, I have better things to do.

    It was fun.

    Bye.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    So? Why mention R&T? Why? Tell me

    Why not? :confuse:

    least answer me why you keep on referring to the magazine for your arguments.

    I repeat why should I not use comparison road test results of two cars that are the topic of this forum? Reading comparable performance/handling specs from various sources can be quite informative, dont you think?

    It would be senseless to use the "Speed R& T comparison test" or the "C&D" as a basis for reliability judgements! And that is exactly what you are doing! No insult intended!

    Have a nice day!
  • Well I dont believe in the demograph ( or whatever) since I'm younger than 20 a bit

    younger and I was looking at the 330i and it was very nice since my sis went

    to buy the 745 (she didnt want the 750!) and also I like the Lexus IS350 but I

    went today to check it out but I saw the GS and I liked it a bit more!!! So I hope to

    buy a new car very soon!!! OOh btw dont feel like that!!! Live life to the fullest!!!!

    I might still like that act like that 13 yrs from now!!!
  • GO MIKE!!!!!!! Im on ur side cuz i kind of know what ur saying plus ur cool lol!!!!

    OOh i didnt even bother reading your guys posts since I am soo out of it right lol

    But I hope it ends well !!! Good Luck! :P
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Well I dont believe in the demograph ( or whatever) since I'm younger than 20 a bit
    younger and


    Yes demograhics do matter! I think I will ask my children for some guidance on my next post!
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    " IS 350 got a 0-60 mph time of 5.3 seconds"

    I can't argue with a printed number, but its my feeling that information from comparos: where all of the cars are tested the same time and place are more valid.

    Testing the same car in Connecticut in February and the same car in Pheonix in July will yield different results.

    So the 5.3 (and I guess a lot of C/Ds numbers) while unbelievable is simply a derived number.
  • dl7265dl7265 Posts: 1,381
    Ok, Canadians play nice now :)

    DL
  • potemkinpotemkin Posts: 196
    Just curious about something...

    Who's responsible for "official" 0-60 times? Does it fall under the purview of the NHTSA or the IIHS, or is there some other governing body that's responsible for testing 0-60 times. If the "gubment's" been negligent and hasn't seen fit to keep track of such things, perhaps they should create a NMCSYCB (National My Car Smokes Your Car Board) to settle these disputes.

    Also, shouldn't they (whoever "they" are) have switched over to the metric system by now? Sounds to me that 0-100 K/H (0-62 MPH) would be more appropriate considering we're talking mainly about European & Japanese brands.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    This is getting way too personal.

    There is no reason why each of you cannot hold your own opinion without having to force it down each other's throat.

    We are talking about several very fine vehicles here. We all have our own reasons for making the final decisions we make, but those reasons are our OWN and we cannot expect to impose them on others. We can explain our reasoning, yes, but expecting others to adopt it lock, stock and barrel is really silly, if you think about it - you're not going to adopt someone else's reasoning in that manner, are you? So why would others adopt yours?

    We need to get this discussion back on track - we're comparing the 3-Series to the IS series, so let's keep our comments focused on the actual vehicles. The personal attacks are not acceptable here.

    Thanks.
  • sdiver68sdiver68 Posts: 119
    I'm sitting here looking directly at the official Lexus IS brouchure I got from the dealer yesterday, and they are claiming 0-60 in 5.6 for the 350. :confuse:
  • "Thanks."

    No problem. :)

    330i:

    Nice car. Haven't had a chance to drive the new 3 yet, but I am looking forward to it. Seeing as how dealerships here are closed on Sundays, tomorrow is a good day to do that. Exterior, meh. Interior, bleh. Well, it is not so much bleh, there are some good attributes in there, however when you combine it altogether, like the door panels and then dash, it mixes like water and oil (IMO).

    I have heard too many horror stories about BMW workmanship (anectodatal and statistical).

    The driving aspect of the 3 I am sure is nice, but the ammenities leave something to be desired with respect to my likes and dislikes.

    IS 350:

    Nice car. :D... really nice car! Exterior, wooh! Interior, oh yeaaa! Well, it is not so much oh yeaaa, who am I kidding, yes it is! The interior is very "fresh" and the use of contrasting tones is absolutely amazing, especially with the cashmere leather. I love the interior door panels and they are extremely comfortable. Wow, is that leather soft. The seat fits me like a fine Italian leather glove; perfect. Everything about the interior gives you the impression of smoothness and luxury; very tastefull.

    The driving aspect? Haven't driven it. As much as I would love to, the dealership has not gotten an IS 350 in yet. Regardless, I am not looking to buy until springtime.

    Lexus reliability? No question in my mind that it is the best in the biz.

    My verdict: IS 350 over the 3-series. I love great handling cars, however given the luxuries of the Lexus, its rocketship-like speed, "razor-sharp handling" (so says magazine reviewers ;)), gorgeous design, and its apeal to me, I would say that this is an easy decision. Throw in my confidence in Lexus workmanship due to anecdotal and statistical evidence of reliability and the decision is even easier.

    PS: I hope I don't offend anybody with my prefering Lexus over BMW (reliability and all).

    :blush:

    PPS: BMW Reliability Statistics from JD Powers

    image
    image
    image

    No information based on quality was available for the 1996 model 3 series sedan. The 1997 model scored 4 points out of 5 for each initial quality rating category.
  • That was a preliminary estimate.
  • Yo Mike! I wanted to know is the GS similar to the IS? Since I drove by again but way too many people at the dealership!
  • In interior design it is similar. Some ways I prefer the GS over the IS interior. In other ways I prefer the IS interior over the GS. It's a toss-up. Both interiors are pretty slick though. Can't knock either.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    I have heard too many horror stories about BMW workmanship (anectodatal and statistical)

    Thanks for posting the stats about BMW 3 series from JD Power!

    So where is the horror?
  • Pretty darn consistent.

    image
    image
    image

    No GS was made between, and including, the years 1997-1994 so I included the ES.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    It is undeniable that the Lexus statistics are impressive.Most Lexus models are just as impressive as Toyota Corollas in terms of reliability stats! And I am not being facetious by saying so since we all know that Corolla reliability is bulletproof!

    Again I graciously thank you for providing those BMW statistics because they prove exactly what I was saying in this forum these past 24 hours:

    BMW 3 series are not unreliable!

    :D
  • Where is BGDC? Maybe he can enlighten us on his experience with BMW firsthand.

    Dewey, let's just say that BMW levels of reliability are not up to my standards. If BMW works for you then that is no problem with me.

    My odds at having a trouble-free car are much better with Lexus.
This discussion has been closed.