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BMW 3-series vs Lexus IS

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Comments

  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    That's fine by me but I think the previous poster's numbers are for US market only. You counter that with your number but You didn't say it's world-wide number so one would assume that's for US market as well unless click the link. That's deceptive and like comparing apples to oranges.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Deceptive? That's rich :) I provided a link for back-up so anyone can go back to the source, rather than just posting a number that no one would believe anyway. :D

    Maybe you're right about apples to oranges. What's the world-wide number for the sale of the IS250/350?
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Yeah, deceptive is probably too strong a world for it, gotta give you credit for listing the source.

    I was trying to find the sales numbers for the IS but so far no luck.
  • Very well said! As we should all know by now, a few of these BMW enthusiasts tend to brag about the qualities of the 3 Series that everybody already agrees on - driving dynamics, but stubbornly ignore anything negative pointed out by the same reviewers that praised the 3 but also by their fellow owners.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Well, they brag because they think the driving dynamics is most important for them and they got it in their 3 series. I brag because I feel I got the most complete package in my IS (excellent balance of luxury and performance). It is okay to brag, however, sometimes a few enthusiasts think that driving dynamics is everything and they intended to bash on other cars that offer less in that area. That is something I have problem with.

    It is great to have different opinion on cars and debate them...as long as it's in a respective and peaceful manor.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    4461 in June
    26946 YTD

    These are US market numbers (including HW).

    Here's the link: link title

    PS. IS250 consists about 73% of the total IS sales. Looks like Lexus' market research was right on.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,141
    My appologies...I was looking at sales figures from different sources and they weren't apples to apples.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,141
    335i isn't a matter of "if", it's actually coming to the U.S.....in coupe form initially. Took my car for a free car wash at my dealership last night. My sales guy actually showed me the order sheets for the 335i for those who want to be the first on the block to get one. He's got 13 names on it so far.

    Dealer is sponsoring a free "drive it the way it's meant to be driven" outing this weekend. Apparently, they're bringing in some BMW race drivers to lead and teach. We're going to be traveling through some beautiful countryside. I'll be opening mine up for the first time through the curvy roads and straightaways. It should be fun.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "Very well said! As we should all know by now, a few of these BMW enthusiasts tend to brag about the qualities of the 3 Series that everybody already agrees on - driving dynamics,"

    A few Lexus enthusiasts tend to do the same thing, brag about the qualties everybody already agrees on - reliability.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    A few Lexus enthusiasts tend to do the same thing, brag about the qualties everybody already agrees on - reliability.

    First of all, I can't resist...I think "Lexus enthusiasts" is an oxymoron.

    It is definitely okay to brag as long as it's without bashing the other car. I've never seen a Lexus bragger bashing a BMW however I've encounter numerous times that a Bimmer bragger calls the IS as POS.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "I've never seen a Lexus bragger bashing a BMW"

    You have to read through the posts, where the BMW has been "bashed" a number of times and called a POS. Yes, both sides are guilty of it. Neither is a bad car, their missions in life, although they do overlap, are different.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Yes, I saw the post you were talking about. Wasn't aware that it was there before. Also agree on these 2 cars are very different in both design philosophy and intended market demography. It is really pointless to keep mentioning Lexus' quality and BMW's driving dynamics. However, one thing I am sure is: at around $40K, neither one of these cars is POS.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,141
    at around $40K, neither one of these cars is POS.

    Dead-on right. Different demographic, as you say.
  • Dead-on right. Different demographic, as you say.

    Very true.

    The quantity advantage of the 3 series is nothing to be bragged about. Toyota Corolla is the best selling car in the world. Does that make the Corolla a better car than a 330? Obviously no, since the demographics are different. Same goes to the IS. The targetted customer groups are close with the 3 vs. the IS, but still not identical.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    The quantity gives an indication of how the consumers view the segment. Corolla to 330 is meaningless. G35 to 330 has a lot of meaning, however, numbers fail to take into account manufacturers target vs actual and manufacturing capacity.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,141
    As always, the 3 Series buyer puts a premium on performance, driving dynamics, "that BMW feel" with a healthy amount of "luxury" thrown in.

    The IS buyer puts longevity, ride, quietness in high regard with some lux and sport thrown in. I also drove the ES350 when I was test driving. That throws even more lux, but less sport, into the equation.

    At least, that's the way I perceived them when I was test driving and comparing the two.

    Nothing wrong with either. Just different approaches.

    All that said, I think either car would serve their owners well even if someone wanted to drive them 150,000 miles. Personally, I'm lucky to keep my cars until they have 50,000 miles on them.

    I will say that I've got a neighbor who has passed down an '87 325i, that he bought new, from himself, to his wife, to his son and daughter. They're still driving it with more than 200,000 miles on the clock. It still runs great (but could use a paint job).
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Head on over to automobilemag.com. 0-60 in 5.1 secs.
  • lexus_jnlexus_jn Posts: 102
    That's true. 3-series has many trims as compared to IS so we can't have an orange vs apple comparison.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,665
    The mid 13’s quarter mile is the thing that opens my eyes.

    It’s more like an M3 lite…with more torque.

    Will be interesting to see what Dinan does with it.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Dinan could probably shave a second from that time. Woot!
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,665
    It’s surprising not to see many posts regarding the new 335i.

    The IS crowd (for half a year or so) had the crown as the drag race king (within the category of course) and there was a flurry of posts heralding the new King. Most other qualities of the vehicles are subjective; such as styling.

    I’ve had my C&D issue for almost 2 weeks now and haven’t see one post boasting on the 335i’s very impressive drag strip results. Not to say that is the sole mission of a BMW…probably far from it…and I would dissuade most people from purchasing a vehicle based on “stats” anyway…but still – very impressive.

    What is really staggering is the vehicles 0-100…at 12.1 sec. This is as fast as a 911 Carrera (3.6) (of course with so many 911 variations it's hard to pin anything down), and a whole second faster than the new G35 (I believe ties the IS ) which is no slouch either…plus their EPA est of 29-30mpg on the highway.

    The C&D article…though not a full test ended off with “…Wow. ‘Nuff said.”.

    Maybe people are waiting to test it themselves before posting?
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,244
    Yeah, that's the reason.

    You bet.

    . . .or not. The IS is quiet & peaceful & used to win the drag race.

    Not so much these days.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,141
    I saw that C&D article myself. They were "gushing" over the 335i. Of course, there's much more to a car than 0-60 and 1/4 times.

    As they say...."there's always going to be someone richer, better looking and thinner than you". I'll add to that...."there's always going to be a car faster than yours".

    After having gone through the recent "muscle car revival" with one of my previous cars being a new Mustang GT, I've kind of settled into having a quick car that does everything well, rather than a "fast car" that falls down in other areas.

    Of course, the 335i qualifies as being a fast car that does many, many things well....at least from what I've read.

    When my dealer gets some 335is in stock, I'm going to have to take one for a spin.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    I read the C&D, R&T, Automobile mag and where else? The new magazines were out for Sept at the local supermarket, so I perused them while shopping. Interesting read this month in all mags.
  • webby1webby1 Posts: 209
    I test drove it yesterday...here are some early comments:
    I went to my dealer today to wash my 330i and guess what...they had one 335i ( black ).
    I was the first to drive it....went for approx 1/2 hr ride...salesman ( young kid ) was with me and we had some fun...the engine is a jewel ! very quiet until you step on it..
    The car is very powerful...floored it a few times from 120 k/h and it seemed almost instantaneous up to 180 and pulling strong...had to back off or loose my license.
    What was impressive was the tires (runflats) 18 "...I heard so many bad things but these Bridgestone Potenzas were good....did not feel hard and no vibrations or harmonics at any speed.
    Love the active steering....feels like a go cart at lower speeds and firms up nicely at higher speeds...like driving on railroad tracks.
    The looks are OK....perhaps I was expecting more....but this is personal.
    I think BMW has a winner with this one...the only thing that pisses me off that in Canada the price starts at 51,400 and in USA it is approx 40 k's !
    Webby
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,665
    there's much more to a car than 0-60 and 1/4 times.

    Yeah…my disclaimer was “and I would dissuade most people from purchasing a vehicle based on “stats” anyway”

    I’m not much of a “let’s burn the clutch at every light” kinda guy anymore anyway…but won’t hesitate to lay the power on when coming through a turn :D
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,665
    the only thing that pisses me off that in Canada the price starts at 51,400 and in USA it is approx 40 k's !

    I’m not sure how international pricing is set…but yes…40K USD is 44K CDN…plus those CDN taxes on the higher amount. Maybe a European delivery?

    I’ve notice other imports are expensive in Canada as well…Acura, Infiniti…but some domestics are pretty cheap…Chrysler (maybe because they have a plant in Ontario).
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "Yeah…my disclaimer was “and I would dissuade most people from purchasing a vehicle based on “stats” anyway”"

    Mustang anyone? Vette anyone? Would anyone buy the 'Stang or 'Vette if all they came with was an anemic 2.5L engine that put out 160 horse?

    People do buy cars based on stats alone and there isn't anything wrong with it. Who am I to tell someone how to spend their money?
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,665
    I don’t tell…I advise. :shades:

    Some acceleration stats are “more” valid in my book than others. For MOST people 5-60 is more representative of what they will attempt. Unless they spend weekend after weekend slipping their clutch from various rpm’s to find the optimal…or brake torque their automatics.

    My main point is even if a vehicle has an impressive stat, it may not translate into how “you” like to drive…for example a Honda S2000 revs up to approx 9K rpm with power way up there…a VW TDI (1.9 for example) makes a lot of power down low but the 0-60 is not that impressive.

    If my wife were testing these two cars, she would not go to 9K rpm…so her conclusion would be the VW TDI is faster (or feels faster) then the S2000.

    Other performance stats such as slalom…well I’m not an expert so maybe it’s just me…but I’ll have a wide margin just doing run after run in the same car.

    Then of course the 335 is turbo charged…so your real world results will be much better in Denver in a 335i than an IS350.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,141
    Oh....believe me...I'm an acceleration junky. As a former Mustang owner, that car was exhilerating when you pressed down the go pedal. Matter of fact, we had an entire argument on the Mustang vs GTO thread a while back.

    As an overall driving experience, I've yet to find handling/ride/steering/braking that equals what Audis and BMWs offer, however.

    Truth told, if I could find even a wee bit of love for the G35s interior ('07 included), I'd probably would have opted for it and saved a few thou.

    Almost pulled the trigger on an IS350. Space and the fact that you couldn't fold down the back seat was the eventual deal killer on that car. Plus, the exterior styling really didn't do much for me either.

    While I am interested in the 335i because of the added power, I can't say I'm in any way, shape or form interested in going any faster than the 330i will go.
This discussion has been closed.