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BMW 3-series vs Lexus IS
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Comments
I dont believe the IS will be challenged by the G since I believe the Lexus IS is more of a direct competitor to the MB C series.
My speculation is the following:
Infiniti is preparing a knock out blow with its new G model! BMW is aware of this and will have a 3.5L engine as a respone to Infiniti.
The 325i will end up with the identicaly tuned 3.0L 255hp engine as the current 330i except that the 325i will still be called a 325i and not a 330i in order not to anger former 330i driver who paid a premium price.
And the 330i will become a historic relic and be renamed a 335i.
My other prediction is that the upcoming Acura TL will have SH-AWD and be a direct competitor with the Audi A4 Quattro.
So in other words the future will look like the following:
Lexus IS against the MB C series
Infiniti G against the BMW 3 series
Acura TL SH-AWD against the Audi A4 Quattro
So far all the rumors about 335i were about adding a light pressure turbo charger to the 3.0, taking adventage of the forced induction technology that BMW learned through their Diesel program. This seems more likely.
However in this case the price will certainly go up, and I don't think it will REPLACE the current 330i. It will be positioned between the 330i and the new, V8 powered M3, both in performance and in price.
Lexus IS350 - The guy had recognized me from the last time I was there looking at the GS, which was reassuring, but then he wasn't too enthusiastic about selling us anything. I felt like he wasn't taking me seriously and after 10 minutes, my test drive was over. He claimed to have other appointments and that the 350 I was in was the only 350 on the lot. Oh well, but I did like a few things. It was very smooth in shifting gears, quiet as hell, and the ride was great. Acceleration is definitely there. Didn't get a chance to take it around corners like I did at the Taste of Lexus event, but oh well.
BMW 330i - Went to So. Bay BMW, and was assigned a "client advisor". From the get go, she was friendly and tried to find a car with the trim and packages I was looking for. The car had three things that were faulty. One, I had pushed the button on the door for the sideview mirrors to retract, and the driver side mirror's retraction motor wouldn't stop grinding after full retraction. Then, I pushed the button again to de-tract the mirrors, and the driver side mirror detracted forward! The saleslady said, "Ooops, we're going to have to get that fixed. Second, while on the freeway, I had accelerated rapidly in the manual automatic mode, and the car had automatically geared me down to 3rd gear (I was traveling in 6th). The saleslady said, "Hmm, that was strange, I didn't see you shift gears either." The third thing I noticed was the car had a hard time finding the right gear from a stopped position. Mainly this seemed to occur between first and second gear. These issues were very disconcerting.
I learned the 330i's are being made in the Germany facility, that I can put a $1,000 refundable deposit down after I order my vehicle, and there's a so called AAA discount which puts the car at $1,800 over invoice (which is still higher than any quotes I've received).
Makes for a 51 Hp difference. Getting 1.2 seconds advantage is huge for just that much horsepower discrepancy.
The M3 is not too much faster than the IS 350 in a straight line but would whoop it in the corners and the M3 has only a 30 hp advantage. How much faster is it? .3? .4?
BUT BMW has a reputation of understating the performance of their vehicles and many published test drives confirm this!
Was it not the road test from R&T that showed an insignificant 0 to 60 differential between the IS and the 3 series?
reminds me of Car&driver
This just proves that R&T driver is not as good as others who can get better from IS350.
This might not be true, but you know what, it was funny hearing it from a BMW salesman who just tried to convince me not to be worried about German engineering!
I would say that AMCI holds values from tests better than Motor Trend et al.
2)Consumers Report
Am I missing something? Where does it say that the BMW 3 series are unreliable?
The fact that the BMW is the consistent winner proves that it is not all about 0 to 60 !
He also said he had the opportunity to actually hold and inspect the new lightweight magnesium alloy block. He specifically looked at the bore and stroke and he believes there is enough "room" to get 3.5L out of it.
(1) In this displacement war that we are talking about, BMW is severely disadvantaged in having a Linear engine tradition. In order to maximize for horsepower (another front of the wars among manufacturers) instead of maximizing for torque, the pistons have to have square or shorter cross section in order to get high rpm (without ridiculous linear velocity in the piston travel). That means big bores. V6 has a intrinsic packaging advantage when the bores get big when L6 runs into hood length vs. crumple zone safety problems
(2) You can't really get something for nothing. The pricing power erosion over the past decade (2.5 to 2.8 to 3.0 with hardly any price increase) was made up for with increased economy of scale; more BMW's were sold because luxury car market was growing very fast during the decade-long boom. Now the market is not growing, the cost increase has to be made up somewhere. The indication seems to be that BMW is trying very hard at reducing labor cost by moving manufacturing from Germany to places like the US southern states, Hungary, South Africa, China, etc.. The track record is not good there, especially during the growing pain years, for most car manufacturers for that matter.
Over the weekend I sampled possible replacements and had the opportunity to drive a 325i 6MT with sport package and then hop across the street and try out an IS250 6MT on the same loop.
No contest. The IS250 can't hold a candle to the 325i.
On the engine side they are about the same. Neither engine is all that inpiring, but both are very smooth. As for the transmission the IS250 was a bit notchy and a distinct whine could be heard. The clutch was awful. The pressure point was all the way out and it was pretty much impossible to shift smoothly.
The IS250 also suffered from wind noise and a not very solid feel in general. The IS250 has amenities galore, but the interior materials are very plasticly. My wife describe the seats as like a Cadillac's and I found them soft and unsopportive.
The 325i with the sports package is a completely different animal from a 325i without. Without the sports package the handling is about the same between the 325i and IS250. The 325i with the sports package is simply wonderful. I think it rides better, the steering is quicker and the car is glued to the road. I've driven just about everything under 40K recently and nothing has the chassis and handling of the 325i with sport package.
I little side note. I also had the opportunity to drive an Audi A3 2.0T with a DSG automatic and paddle shifters. WOW!!!! This car is a blast to drive. The shifts are quick and you can hear and feel shifts. It sounds just like a rally car. The handling was the best of encountered in a FWD car and the 2.0T always had power on tap. Even if you're not interested in the car you should try it out.
From the front it reminds me of an Accord (an aggressive one)
From the side (particularly the front) it reminds me of a G35
From the rear it reminds me of a Sonata.
Not that it looks bad, just doesn’t “do it” for me; though the drag strip results do.
The interior is no better or worse than any other out there just different. The only recent interior that made me go wow was the Infiniti M but I hear others go “yuk” at the same time.
As hot as the market is right now for the new 3, I think you could sell your very low mileage automatic yourself and come out pretty well. My local BMW dealer had a used 325 with about the same miles and yours and it was gone in a week. You'd have the advantage of selling an almost new car, undercutting what the dealer would sell it for and still making more for yourself than the dealer would give you in trade.
One thing to consider. If you trade you'll probably save a ton in sales tax on the new transaction. Think I mentioned that earlier.
You need to make a deal and have a car you'll love! Let the wife drive the Murano!
2)What you are talking about is an industry problem not a BMW problem
My choice is down to the 325i 6MT w/ sport, Mustang GT convertible 5MT or an FJ Cruiser.
What you described in your 325SP experience is something I have tried to explain to sheer horsepower junkies - that balance in the BMW chassis/engine/brakes is simply superb. I'm sure the IS250/350 will sell like crazy - and Lexus certainly takes care of its customers.
The commentary on this forum damning BMW "quality" and that they should be avoided like the Bird Flu is simply unbalanced. EVERY make has challenges, including Toyota and Lexus with recent recalls - yet I will never accuse them of having an inferior product! One I cannot fit in comfortably (GS/IS) yes, but they are sure well-built.
Real drivers can appreciate the total experience of being "one with the car" in the BMW moreso than with many other makes. Many come close, but few match this experience up and down the product chain within a marque. Selection in this market is a wonderful thing and I could see having cars from many Mfgrs discussed here in a dream garage.
BTW, the A3 is a fantastic bit of design/packaging/performance in its segment. Is the 2.0T a strong powerplant? More low-end grunt or does it wind up with good top-end performance? I'd be a happy camper with its big brother, the new A8L, in my driveway!
I'd like to see the 325i with more torque.
On the reliability issue people need to realize a BMW, Lexus, Infiniti, etc are much more complex vehicles than a Toyota, Honda, Kia, etc.
Technology is prone to vaults. Mechanically all the luxury marks are sound.
The 2.0T is a great powerplant. I am not a fan of turbos or 4's, but this engine is great. There is no turbo lag and maximum torgue (207 ft lbs) is available at 1800 rpm. It felt more like a six and I couldn't really tell it was a turbo. My only beef with the Audi's is not having RWD. I'm not a fan of AWD.
Will it break down while we test drive it?
I read C& D BMW test and I am scared to death about sitting in this car?
I dont have proof but I hear BMWs are pieces of crap?
If I was a sales rep I would be very nervous too and would be reassuring you that everything is OK .
From AutoWeek... "the Z4 M roadster gets the same 3.2-liter inline- six engine as the soon-to-be-discontinued fourth-generation M3. Sitting up front in the new car’s distinctive shark-like nose, the high-strung alloy block unit produces 343 hp at 7900 rpm—a solid 78 hp more than the 3.0-liter I6 in the facelifted Z4 3.0i. It is also 43 hp more than the 3.3-liter I6 Roadster S offered by Alpina, which up until now was the fastest Z4 offered through official BMW channels."
In response to some posts here (Brightness)... gee, I guess BMW can create a bunch of horsepower from a lowly I6! A naturally aspirated 3.2L I6 at that... But, what do Germans know about technology
What is that, like 15 years in a row for the 3-series?!
Guess all of the talk from Lexus about the new IS being a '3-series killer' was just that; talk!
Back to cars: We've narrowed our choice down to a 325i 6MT, sports pkg, cold weather pkg, Sirius in Electric Red with Beige interior or a Mustang GT convertible 5MT, interior upgrade, side airbags in Screaming Yellow with black interior.
I played for 20 years and am now preparing for my 1st Total Knee replacement next March. 2nd 4-6 months later
How about the 310hp "335i" rumors? It seems that quite some E90 owners wish they could have 50more hps
That is exactly why I am not a current e90 owner but plan to be a future e90 owner!
Unless ofcourse my current car self destructs then I will have to settle for less HP!
When the 310hp is common place everybody will wish for the 350hp version.
In fact forget the 310hp 335i, I think I will wait another 7 years for the 420hp 340i.
If the 335i engine is a larger displacement version of the current I6 without any weight gain, it would be a better handling car than a 340i with a heavier and more powerful engine.
It is not all about horsepower.
The lightness of any performance vehicle is an asset! Most performance sedans have become a bit weighty with all the new safety features and gizmos !
There shouldn't be nearly a one second discrepancy from driving a car equipped with a AT no matter who is driving the car. All you have to do is put it in drive and push the gas pedal down a straightaway. It doesn't take a good driver to do that. I could see that being an issue with a MT though.
Yep. Edmunds got a similar 6.1s for the IS350, actual test number.
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpcontainers/do/vdp/articleId=106607/pageNumber=5
I believe they state they do “what ever it takes” to achieve the highest acceleration numbers.
I’ve never driven an automatic this way.
They also correct the results to STP. I think this way is probably the best so you can compare different results on different days though it would be nice to see the “real” numbers.
Especially for an automatic, I find the 5-60mph more telling of the performance people who drive an automatic have no business doing 0-60 anyway
What else was on the list for 2006?
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